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Alliance for the seperation of school and state... (maybe belong in Activism?)  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Found this website today and wanted to share. I don't know if it belongs more here or in activism, but I put it here to start.

http://www.schoolandstate.org/home.htm

A quote from the site, that I did not know:
Quote:
Our form of compulsory schooling is an invention of the state of Massachusetts around 1850. It was resisted - sometimes with guns - by an estimated eighty per cent of the Massachusetts population, the last outpost in Barnstable on Cape Cod not surrendering its children until the 1880's when the area was seized by militia and children marched to school under guard.
Rather scary!
post #2 of 13
It doesn't surprise me that the number of home schooled students in Oregon is equal to the number of PS students. Both my children were happy and learning in PS in California, then we moved to Oregon. It never once occurred to me to HS before this year. The schools here really suck!! My older daughter is going back to PS in the fall just because that is where she wants to be and where she learns the best, but I am keeping my younger daughter home and home schooling her.
post #3 of 13
Interesting. I had to remind myself to keep an open mind when I saw their list of supporters. I agree with getting government out of education *in theory.* In practice, I think that right now, public schools are a necessary evil. I think that those of us who are against them should focus right now on advocating homeschooling to those for whom it is an option and working to change the popular cultural perception of hs'ers. And I think the numbers are on our side--more and more people will know a hs family and think "well, they homeschool and are perfectly normal, the kids are learning and socialized, maybe it is an option."

I don't think we should be working on shutting down or de-funding public schools at this point. If we can just make ps not the default, but simply one choice of many, that would be a huge step. And the crappiness of the ps system is doing a pretty good job of being an advertisement against itself. All we have to do is show them that there is another option.

Also, there is a segment of the population--not a majority, not even a large minority, but not a splinter fringe either--for whom ps really and truly is the best option. As anti-school as I am, personally I would rather see a 7 yr old in school all day than home alone, or home with drug addicts, or wandering the streets alone, or working a job, or getting beaten up by his parents. And many children are better off for having someone other than the parents actually see the child everyday so as to take note of suspicious recurring injuries.

I do not agree with judging the merits of an idea or proposal by those who advocate it. I also understand that single-issue movements can involve people with vastly different views on other subjects. However. Several things about that site made me wonder whether the deregulation of education (which I do agree with) could be a front for the deregulation of treatment of children entirely. There is a powerful movement to roll back even the tiny advances made in children's human rights, and one of their biggest targets is the public schools filled with mandated reporters. I know for a fact that some of the prominent child-torture fetishists advocate home or private schooling for this specific reason. HSLDA has defended child-torture fetishists in the past.

I'm just suggesting (and this is really a general suggestion beyond this particular movement) that those of us who are anti-ps and support hs'ing for the right reasons be a bit careful who we associate ourselves with and who we allow to speak for us. The homeschool and alternative-school movements include a wide variety of political, religious, educational, and cultural views, which is a good thing (and I really hate the demonization of "ultra-religious" hs'ers, especially since I am one), but I do think we need to
a) draw the line at child-torture fetishists, and
b) make sure the movement isn't co-opted by other interests or interests not representative of the broad consensus of hs'ers.
post #4 of 13
Completely and totally off-topic, but why, *why* will this site not let me put a double space between sentences? The single space is so annoying and wrong-looking. I can't even edit in the two spaces. MDC must be firmly in the hands of the single-space lobby. Well, fine. They can take my two spaces, but I will *never* give up my final comma in a series. So there.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
Completely and totally off-topic, but why, *why* will this site not let me put a double space between sentences? The single space is so annoying and wrong-looking. I can't even edit in the two spaces. MDC must be firmly in the hands of the single-space lobby. Well, fine. They can take my two spaces, but I will *never* give up my final comma in a series. So there.
LOL I am not sure about the spacing issues but the comma issue may be out of respect to all nationalities that post on this board. While we Americans choose to allow this extra comma, it is appalling to most British people with whom my husband works. They consider it redundant and unacceptable. He has to argue with them about it frequently.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT
It doesn't surprise me that the number of home schooled students in Oregon is equal to the number of PS students
This isn't the case. Something like 80 or 85% or children of school age in the Portland region attend public schools. I wonder how they're defining "independently educated." It sure isn't homeschooling.
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHiddenFees
This isn't the case. Something like 80 or 85% or children of school age in the Portland region attend public schools. I wonder how they're defining "independently educated." It sure isn't homeschooling.
Perhaps the lump children in private schools in with homeschoolers?
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHiddenFees
This isn't the case. Something like 80 or 85% or children of school age in the Portland region attend public schools. I wonder how they're defining "independently educated." It sure isn't homeschooling.
I don't know but I had never seen the sheer number of home schoolers in California that I see here. I knew ONE family that home schooled and they had just moved from another state.

And when they come up with these numbers are they taking into consideration the very high amount of home schooler that are out of compliance in this state? Many people don't believe the home school laws are constitutional therefor they don't have to follow them.
post #9 of 13
I think they're including all non-public schooling--homeschool, private school, charter, whatever. They are specifically for ending public schooling, not necessarily for homeschool per se.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna
I think they're including all non-public schooling--homeschool, private school, charter, whatever. They are specifically for ending public schooling, not necessarily for homeschool per se.
There are fewer than 25,000 registered homeschoolers in the state, even if we allow a generous margin for unregistered homeschoolers... say 30,000 children total, that's still not many. State public school enrollment is over 550,000 and private school enrollment is between 45,000 and 50,000. There are just over 5,000 kids in charter schools. The numbers don't add up without including dropouts (something I'd hardly call independent education)... and then they could only add up for high school kids (and that's not a sure thing), not enrollment for all ages.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT
And when they come up with these numbers are they taking into consideration the very high amount of home schooler that are out of compliance in this state? Many people don't believe the home school laws are constitutional therefor they don't have to follow them.
I know; I live here and I'm a homeschooling parent. I don't believe there are several 10's of thousands of unregistered homeschoolers in the state. The website's claim that greater than 50% of Oregon students are exercising some sort of independent education option is just false.
post #12 of 13
Interesting... :
post #13 of 13
Okay, I think I have figured it out--it says "the number of U.S. students independently schooled is equal to the number of public school students in these 25 states and Washington, DC combined." So they're not saying that non-public schoolers outnumber public schoolers in those states; they're saying that the number of homeschool and private school students in the whole country combined is equal to the number of public school students in those 25 states combined.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking Refuge
LOL I am not sure about the spacing issues but the comma issue may be out of respect to all nationalities that post on this board. While we Americans choose to allow this extra comma, it is appalling to most British people with whom my husband works. They consider it redundant and unacceptable. He has to argue with them about it frequently.
It lets me use the comma, just not the two spaces. As for the British, well, they're just wrong.
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Mothering › Forums › Education › Learning at Home and Beyond › Alliance for the seperation of school and state... (maybe belong in Activism?)