Threats in disguise!!! - Page 2

[Solange]

This is a very good thread you guys....
I really do not have much to add except thank you for posting b/c I am learning a lot from all of you....
I have always given my son choices since he was at least 20 months and it was on easy issues like did he want to walk or ride in the sling while shopping or did he want ____ or ___ to eat for lunch. These choices were not posed as a disciplianary tactic..just out of respect to him as a person that he had choices too.....I guess I have never really had to use the choice as a "discipline" technique thing..I have always done the "modeling" thing like someone else posted....
Something else that comes to mind is watching the flow of the day for our young ones and giving them the choice to make when the times are right and leading them up to those times with what may or may not happen so there is no battle of wills so to speak...does this make sense?
Of course my ds is only 33 months so I know I am not at the same level with you who have 2 or more kiddos...but this is what works for me and having a routine to everyday makes things smoother for my ds to transition to one thing from another.
I do agreee when it comes to saftey issues that there can be no chioce but then again that is why we are the adults....all about boundararies and balances.....
mindful parenting also comes to mind here.....

well how was that for not really having much to add....lol..
sorry....

[Linda in Arizona]

<<I just am not able to carry everything for everything for everyone. I see this as just opposite of what you said in the end, for them to take care of themselves. >>

It hasn't worked out that way for us. I can't remember the last time I carried something for my kids because they didn't believe me that they would want it later. These kinds of things where issues for both of my kids when they were toddlers, but they quickly got past it. Generally, I set everything out near the door and they just grab their stuff (having a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 year old is MUCH easier than having a 6 month old and a 2 year old!)

I think it is our job to GENTLY teach our kids to take care of themselves, but I don't think it is approprate to make a toddler stay out in the cold because they lack the life experiences to understand that a jacket is a good thing.

It is my experience that making things like jackets into control issues simple makes it more difficult for children to make good decisions for themselves. The point shouldn't be to get the coat on the kid today but rather to teach them to than when they are cold, they should put on a coat. My kids needed to get cold to learn this.

Also, as I've been thinking about it more, the example of not going to the park unless the kid put on a jacket doesn't really hit on the more difficult issue of getting kids dressed when you are going someplace that they don't want to go.

"If you don't put on your jacket, we won't go to the dentist."

"If you don't put on your jacket, we won't go pick up sister from her gymnastics."

The park example is pure manipulation because the example doesn't work if it is something that they child doesn't want to do! It is also a punishment because it isn't fair to inflict it on the other child!

and YES -- routine is GOOD thing. Part of our routine is laying out our clothes the night before. We talk about what we will be doing, where we will be going, and what the weather is supposed to be like.

And least anyone think my views are tainted becasue I live in Arizona, we lived in Canada when the girls were 2 and 3. Jan through March they had to wear snowsuits to leave the house at all.

[simple gifts]

About one child not getting to go if the other won't cooperate. I had three kids in five years, and the middle one of those was a very willful, spirited girl. She still is. I often did not make her experience the natural consequences of her actions because it was unfair to her siblings to miss out on activities.

Now that they are older, the siblings think we should have missed an activity or two. I love this child, she is a great girl, but she is determined to have her own way at anyone's expense even now. Thankfully it comes up less often than when they were young. Her sister often says that she probably wouldn't remember what thing she missed going to, but she sure will remember having to deal with her sister all her life.

I'm still not sure what I think, but I lean toward my older daugher being correct. If they other kids had missed a few activities but their sister had learned the value of cooperation at an earlier age, their lives would have been less stressful than they have been. And they probably wouldn't remember today what they missed those few times.

Just another thought, anyway.

[momatheart23]

I think there is a big difference in how you phrase it, even if you are essentially saying the same thing. I think an important lesson that people learn is that there are always "choices" in life, even if they aren't equal. I can pay my electric bill, or not pay it and have no lights. I can go to work and have a house, or quit and not have one. Even if those sound obvious it is important that children learn that they always have a choice, even if it is pretty obvious which is the "better" choice, that way later in life they don't feel as if they have no choice and they are just stuck in life. So yes, even if the choice is to get the coat on and go to the park, or leave it off and stay home, they still learn that they have a choice in what happens in life. I think it is a lesson that alot of adults don't truly get.

[LailaCA]

Since young children dont have the wisdom we do (well I hope we have at least some wisdom) then we pick the choices available and they get to pick from them. We have to set up the core choices, because at times (bad weather etc...) they NEED to wear their hat or coat and that CANNOT be a choice. So they can choose to wear it and go...or perhaps do a different (but fun) activity at home. Or they can choose which coat, which hat etc....but they do have to wear one. In this way...some of they have some say so...but not on the core issue which is way too important. When they start getting older and achieve knowledge then the range of choices widens as they can learn to responsibly choose.

[Cathi]

Originally posted by mamaduck
I mean obviously, you can't let your child spend the afternoon laying on the floor in the cereal aisle at the grocery store.

Hee hee...Mamaduck, were you spying on us today? :

We just started this sort of "reasoning" with ds who is 21 months. At first he always complied and would choose what I was obviously asking him to choose (ie getting up off the floor and walking nicely beside me). But then he got creative. He would walk v e r r r y s l o w l y behind me. Or, he would walk backwards. Or sideways. Or with his hands covering his eyes and bumping into things.

Can you imagine??

I still maintain that he can choose to walk however he wants to, as long as he is being safe. It seems like a better compromise than a screaming child in the cart knocking everything on the floor (ie lady behind me)

If he's this "creative" at almost 2 what will I get when he's 4??

[Linda in Arizona]

Originally posted by LailaCA
So they can choose to wear it and go...or perhaps do a different (but fun) activity at home.

I'm lost. What if you really HAVE to leave the house. For example -- the dog has to go to the vet and your DC refuses to put on a coat. OR you have a dentist appointment that you had to make 6 weeks in advance and you DC refused to put on coat. Then what????????

If it is really so bitter cold that they will realize upon walking out the door that a hat would be a lovely thing, then why not just put it on their head then, and skip the whole big power struggle. If it is not so cold they they want a hat, then they most likely won't die of exposure.

If they still don't wont put on a hat, even though they are cold and even though you have one right there soley because they are in a power struggle with you, then you have serious issues with your DC that you should work our NOW before they get bigger and play out these same dynamics on other issues.

This just ain't that hard.

[carmen veranda]

Ouch, that hurt. Guess there are a few of us that are just plain dumb.

[Pigpen]

I think some of us (okay, me) are "dumb" in that we've been conditioned to believe certain things. Like you are a bad parent if you allow your child to be coatless outside when it's cold. It's a good reminder that we shouldn't sweat the little things.

[simple gifts]

Originally posted by omegamama
I think some of us (okay, me) are "dumb" in that we've been conditioned to believe certain things. Like you are a bad parent if you allow your child to be coatless outside when it's cold. It's a good reminder that we shouldn't sweat the little things.

One of my kids always refused to wear a coat, no matter how cold. I gave up at an early age, figuring if she was cold enough she would put the thing on.

I honesy don't remember a single time she ever got sick from not wearing something warm, even though it gets plenty cold here in the Northeast. She' now 24 and still never wears a coat. Doesn't own one now that she buys her own, as far as I know.

If she had caught cold,I would have pointd out to her that getting too cold probably contributed. Recent research shows that you are more likely to catch a cold if you have gotten insufficient sleep the night before than any other fator, including washing your hands.

[beanzer]

You are all amazing ...

Can I just interrupt this thread to say that I am practically in tears reading all these responses. In my world, a child who won't put on her coat is dealt with in two ways:

1. Hold her down and forcibly dress her
2. Spank, and then do #1

I caught my MIL tring to do #1 to my one year old - the whole time she was saying "this is for your own good. There have to be Rules". I was horrified, even though I can see how her intentions were good. Now I never let my MIL dress my daughter, not even helping her on with coat and boots.

I think this discussion is so interesting and I hope you all take a second to pat yourselves on the back for being such amazing, caring, wonderful parents. A ton of parents (maybe even most) wouldn't give a second's thought to any of this.

[LailaCA]

I agree with most of you. If my child did not want to wear a coat or hat then I would not make them. Some out there seemed real concerned about that issue..however..for me it is not one of concern. I do live in CA and do not have to worry about bitter cold though. My husband never wears a coat, jacket or even sweater. He always runs warm. Me...I always wear my thermals until about May...I always run cold.

Clothing to me is not a battle I believe is worthwhile or in any way important to have with one's children. For those of you who feel it is real important perhaps you obtained some ideas from these posts.

[mamaofthree]

The whole coat thing is kind of funny.... a few weeks ago when we where having park day, I told the kids to grab their coats so we could go. They both desided against it. We went to the park, and boy was it cold! They have NEVER forgotten their coats/sweaters since. Even if they don't wear it, they always put them in the park bag.
I am amazed at how well those life lessons work much better then all the "fake" choices. Because you are right, if one choice isn't an option, then it really isn't a choice.
My SIL uses the "fake" choices alot with her dd. ie... "You can either get your coat, or sit in time out." What kind of choice is that? I mean in therory it is a choice, but not a good one. I mean she could choose to sit in time out. But who really chooses that?
I have been really trying to only give choices if they are real choices, but it is HARD sometimes!

HEATHERH