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anyone still using booster seats for their pre-teen? - Page 2

post #21 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBaxter
There is no WAY my 11 yr old would ride in a booster he would be HORRIBLY harrassed I agree with the pp peer pressure is very heavy at that age. He rides in the back w/ a lapbelt.
A lap belt only? Or lap/shoulder belt?

http://www.consumer.org.nz/newsitem....0belt%20safety
Quote:
Crossing the vulnerable abdomen, lap belts can cause horrific internal injuries as passengers are violently folded in half during a crash.
post #22 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBaxter
There is no WAY my 11 yr old would ride in a booster he would be HORRIBLY harrassed I agree with the pp peer pressure is very heavy at that age. He rides in the back w/ a lapbelt.
I wanted to mention that having your 11 yo in just a lap belt is extremely dangerous. All crash forces will be centered completely across his stomach/pelvis. A childs skeletal structure isn't fully formed until puberty, so his pelvis although getting stronger at 11, is no match for crash forces exerted on only it. I would suggest moving him to a seating position in the rear, that has a lap AND shoulder belt.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #23 of 68
a booster seat for a 12 year old? I wouldn't do it unless there was some growth issue that made him quite unusually small for his age.
post #24 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten
I am not arguing that booster seat use isn't the law, as well as a smart and safe thing to do. I am all over it for ages five, six, seven. My dd1 rode in hers til she was eight, and was the only kid in her class after kindergarten that was made to. She didn't like it, but I explained that it was the law, and the safest way for her to ride. But she wasn't yet able to ride her bike without training wheels, or walk downtown without an adult, or any number of things that kids can do as they grow up.
Most parents do not use a booster at all. They take their children straight from a child seat to just a vehicle belt. This is what we in the CPS community are trying to combat. Misinformation. What I don't want the OP to feel, is stupid or wrong for making her son stay in booster seat no matter the age (or anyone else lurking on this thread). She did not mention if she tried the 5 step test, so if she comes back to this thread maybe she'll let us know. If he passes, mute point. If he is small for his age, then he should stay in the booster, however the choice is still up to the OP in the end. Criteria set forth by NHTSA are guidelines. Most are not hard and fast rules because they know there are thousands of different size and age scenarios out there. Heck, I'd be please as punch if more parents even knew what a booster was and actually used one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten
My understanding on booster seat use is that 8 years or 80 pounds is what was found to be safest, but was unable to be passed. What was passed (originally - maybe has changed since) was 6 years or 60 pounds.
NHTSA's official position on booster seat use is: "all children who have outgrown child safety seats should be properly restrained in booster seats until they are at least 8 years old, unless they are 4'9" tall." Children can move to a seat belt when they can firmly place their back against the vehicle seat back cushion with their knees bent over the vehicle seat cushion." (refer to the 5 step test I already posted for additional guidelines) So that is their guideline and not a rule per se. They have to take into account the many different age and height and weight scenarios of the general population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten
I am also curious as to the ages of DC's two sons who are in seats.
64 pound, 49" tall, 6 yo in a Britax Husky. 34 pound, 38" (or so) 2 1/2 yo in a Britax Marathon (just turned him forward facing). Both are 5 point restraints and I will keep them both in a 5 point restraint until I don't have any other choice.

Our experiences, both internal and external frame a lot of the parenting decisions we make. Child restraint use is a choice that many parents make uninformed. There are many reasons for that. I am certain most parents I check and install seats for have their children's best interests at heart. I am sure you do too Kirsten. Given time, I will witness the effects of "peer pressure" and my boys growing independance. But as long as I know what I know, have been through what I've been through, and assisted at multiple car accident scenes and seen what wrecks do to people's bodies of all ages, I will not ever put my children's embarassment ahead of his safety in a car.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #25 of 68
The law in my state says that a child of 80lbs or less must be in some sort of seating device.
My 10 yr old is in a booster seat and is only 60lbs...and she will stay there until she reaches the weight limit or she grows tall enough so the shoulder belt fits...
post #26 of 68
I guess it would depend on his weight and height, but seriously unless he was something like 50 pounds or less I wouldn't require the booster.

FWIW I still can't sit in some back seats and have my feet touch the floor. So I wouldn't pass some of that 5 point safety test either.
post #27 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaglesarebad
FWIW I still can't sit in some back seats and have my feet touch the floor. So I wouldn't pass some of that 5 point safety test either.
I have helped a few mamas find seating positions that were better for them because of their short stature. Some find it is difficult to drive their own cars without the shoulder belt hitting them straight across their neck and choking them. Vehicle manufacturers produce cars without much thought to accomodating all sizes of people and most definately not producing cars to be child friendly.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #28 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaglesarebad
FWIW I still can't sit in some back seats and have my feet touch the floor. So I wouldn't pass some of that 5 point safety test either.
Your feet do not have to touch the floor. Your knees have to bend comfortably over the edge of the back seat with your rear against the back of the seat (i.e. no slouching to make knees reach edge of seat).
post #29 of 68
My oldest will be eleven next month and is still in a booster. The lap/shoulder belts go too high on his neck. I have my oldest three kids (the other two are 9 and 8) in booster seats. My youngest will be five next month and is still in his five point seat. My kids very rarely say anything about having to sit in the booster seats and honestly I am guessing it is because they don't get a choice. They sit in the booster b/c that is what is the safest at this point. I would rather have my son be slightly annoyed with me (on the few occassions he has commented about the booster) than seriously injured or dead. There are some things that shouldn't be up for discussion IMHO.
post #30 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
I have helped a few mamas find seating positions that were better for them because of their short stature. Some find it is difficult to drive their own cars without the shoulder belt hitting them straight across their neck and choking them. Vehicle manufacturers produce cars without much thought to accomodating all sizes of people and most definately not producing cars to be child friendly.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats

So should this momma be in a booster seat?
What about small people(midgets and dwarfs)?
My tiny aunt who is only 4'1o and 90 lbs?
Where do you draw the line?
What if her ds stops growing?Should he get his drivers licence in a booster seat and drive to college with his buddies in a booster seat????
post #31 of 68
Yes, they should have some modifications to the car seat so that they are safe. My grandmother always drove with several firm pillows (one under her, at least one behind her) so that the seatbelt would fit her properly. Unfortunatly car seats and belts are designed for fully grown men for the most part.

-Angela
post #32 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
What I don't want the OP to feel, is stupid or wrong for making her son stay in booster seat no matter the age (or anyone else lurking on this thread).
I don't want the OP or anyone else to feel stupid either. The OP is clearly questioning if she is right or wrong. When we are sure of our position, we don't ask for input. It is hard to "read" tone online. It is a fine line to walk and I often find people on MDC to agree with whatever the OP or the majority of posters are saying. There is a lot of "let me agree with you and make you feel better". I think that is great if the person is making a good choice. I really got the feeling that the OP was having a hard time transitioning from her firstborn being little to being a pre-teen. I just want her to factor in how little risk benefit is being gained and how much it could hurt him emotionally. We are not talking about my seven year old complaining about being made to sit in a booster when none of her friends have in two years. The boy will be 12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
I am certain most parents I check and install seats for have their children's best interests at heart. I am sure you do too Kirsten. Given time, I will witness the effects of "peer pressure" and my boys growing independance.
I have been to the car seat clinics to have my seats checked/reinstalled tighter. I have gotten new seats when the ones we used for older siblings were over five years old, even though they hadn't been in an accident and appeared to be fine. I have shelled out the money for two Britax seats (we have one in each car so we don't have to reinstall once we get the seat in nice and tight). My kids ride in boosters til they are eight. I understand the importance of keeping kids safe in the car.

I also think that it is important to take into account the emotional well being of a 12 year old boy. I would be VERY upset if anyone read my comments and let their six year old ride in just the car seat belt without a booster because he or she was embarrassed or felt babyish. I just think that six and twelve are two VERY different ages. We still don't know what the OP's son weighs.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten
I just want her to factor in how little risk benefit is being gained and how much it could hurt him emotionally. We are not talking about my seven year old complaining about being made to sit in a booster when none of her friends have in two years. The boy will be 12.
And it's a safety device to keep him from being PARALYZED or KILLED in certain types of accidents. It's NOT a baby device or toy or anything of the sort and adults need to start explaining that to kids AND to other adults. Until people start viewing booster seats as beneficial and necessary, we'll always have someone worried about "looking like a baby" or "not cool". Should this same poster let her son go biking without a helmet because his friends are laughing at him?

No one is telling her that her son MUST stay in a booster seat. She is being given the test to see if he can be without one. If he can be, great, the issues is resolved. And if he is too small, well then the fact remains he is safer in a booster. I will say again, age has NOTHING to do with this. It's size. If his friends can't understand the logic that he is smaller than them and this keeps him safer in a car accident, then perhaps they aren't the type of friends he needs.
post #34 of 68
No, I would not make my 12 year old sit in a booster seat. A backless booster is not in and of itself a life saving device and seat belts can still be improperly positioned when using one. A child's head should not exceed the height of the back of the seat when he is seated in the booster. Actually I think its the tip of the ears but I am not certain.

You may want to read this article that the authors of Freakonomics published:

http://www.freakonomics.com/times0710col.php

They question whether car seats are any better than seat belts at protecting children over the age of 2.

I am in no way adovcating ditching car seats for young children but it is an interesting article and includes a bit of research that they did including a memo from the Institute for Highway Safety back in 2001 that "The Institute also is concerned that NHTSA's public recommendations for booster seats are getting ahead of science and regulations for child passenger safety. For example, the agency recommends that all children weighing 40-80 pounds and less than 57 inches in heightshould ride in belt-positioning booster seats (www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
people/injury/childps/boosterseat/CPS_Week.pdf). As a result, child
safety advocates around the country are promulgating these guidelines,
and many states now are passing laws. These recommendations, however,
are based on a fairly limited study conducted in the early 1990s in
which seat belt fit was evaluated for about 150 children ages 7-12
positioned in the rear seats of three different vehicles. Belt fit was
evaluated with the seat belt alone and with three different booster
seat models. Although this study provided an important demonstration
of the potential for adult belts to be poorly positioned, by itself it
does not support these global recommendations and laws."

Maggie
post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoGranola
And it's a safety device to keep him from being PARALYZED or KILLED in certain types of accidents. It's NOT a baby device or toy or anything of the sort and adults need to start explaining that to kids AND to other adults. Until people start viewing booster seats as beneficial and necessary, we'll always have someone worried about "looking like a baby" or "not cool". Should this same poster let her son go biking without a helmet because his friends are laughing at him?

No one is telling her that her son MUST stay in a booster seat. She is being given the test to see if he can be without one. If he can be, great, the issues is resolved. And if he is too small, well then the fact remains he is safer in a booster. I will say again, age has NOTHING to do with this. It's size. If his friends can't understand the logic that he is smaller than them and this keeps him safer in a car accident, then perhaps they aren't the type of friends he needs.
:

post #36 of 68
Glad to run across both sides of this issue here. My almost 10 year old is also petite, and I have her in a backless booster 90% of the time. I make allowances if we have to sqeeze other people in the middle seat or if she is having friends ride with her. I told her that she is trapped until she hits 80 pounds, so she told me she's going start eating more!
post #37 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
I have helped a few mamas find seating positions that were better for them because of their short stature. Some find it is difficult to drive their own cars without the shoulder belt hitting them straight across their neck and choking them. Vehicle manufacturers produce cars without much thought to accomodating all sizes of people and most definately not producing cars to be child friendly.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats
What is up with that? That's how the seat belt hits me too. My 15 yr old dd who is learning to drive fits in the car better than I do, she's taller.

As for the OP. Can you consider a compromise? Can he ride up front while being dropped off to and from school? School zones are very low speeds and the chances of injury at those speeds aren't as high as a high speed crash. If you are going over a certain speed limit make him ride in the booster, and certainly for freeway trips? And if he fails, or perhaps the better wording is "factors out" this safety test then he needs it and thats that.
post #38 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkmilk
So should this momma be in a booster seat?
What about small people(midgets and dwarfs)?
My tiny aunt who is only 4'1o and 90 lbs?
Where do you draw the line?
What if her ds stops growing?Should he get his drivers licence in a booster seat and drive to college with his buddies in a booster seat????
When you can discuss booster seat use in a non-sarcastic or non-baiting manner, let me know and I'll be happy to respond. Your post does nothing for this conversation.

DC
post #39 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9m9m9

You may want to read this article that the authors of Freakonomics published:

http://www.freakonomics.com/times0710col.php

Maggie
There are so many things wrong with this article, I don't even know how to begin to address them. From their "test" to their conclusions....wrong, wrong, 100% wrong. It is mis-information like what is included in this article, that will continue to endanger many many children and perpetuate the cycle of non-use and mis-use which will kill and injure our kids needlessly.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech/instructor and momma to 2 sons in seats
post #40 of 68
That particular article was written by a economist who neglected to factor in the statistic that unless a seat is installed by a child seat technician, 90% of car seats are installed incorrectly by parents.

The facts of the matter are that if parents bothered to have seats properly installed and used them properly, the statistics would be very different.

And to the OP, if your child does not pass the five point test mentioned here several times, than yes he should continue to be in a booster.
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