Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Diapering › Elimination Communication › EC on older babies
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

EC on older babies  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I wanted to say something about starting EC with older kids (toddlers or older babies). I am not the authority on EC or anything, so this is just my opinion on what I have learned from listenting to other EC moms, reading articles, one book, etc. I also don’t want to discourage anyone, but did want to point something out.

Elimination communication is meant to be *started* on babies. Young, pre-mobile, in arms babies. You often hear the ideal window of 0-4 months for this reason. Lots of people start older (like us!) but it’s going to be easiest the earlier you start. This doesn't mean it's impossible with an older baby! But IMO, it does mean you need to be realistic about the problems and your expectations when starting older.

One reason is because the older the child becomes, the more used to diapers they become. After awhile, a diaper becomes normal to them. Now the baby has become used to going in his diaper and has to unlearn this. That’s not nearly as easy as simply not getting used to going in a diaper in the first place! Also, because their potty signals were not responded to, many babies stop signaling that they need to go. A mom who starts with a newborn has a baby who is still signaling and just needs to learn those signals. A mom starting with an older baby may very well have a baby who no longer signals (tho I’ve noticed most kids signal poops just cuz of the effort involved).

Another reason it’s harder on an older child is because they are mobile. Carrying a content, in-arms baby to the potty is one thing. Picking up a toddler who is engrossed in his own business is quite another. A lot of ECers seem to find that their kids go on temporary strikes when they become toddlers and don’t want to be bothered going potty. Most of them outgrow the strike, but imagine how much harder it would be to *start* EC at this point.

I’m mentioning this because after all the discussions recently I’ve noticed a lot of threads from moms who want to start EC on their older kids. I just don’t want people trying to start EC on an older baby or toddler, having an awful time and an upset child and then getting the wrong idea about how EC works. I want to give the advice to be very clear with yourself about your expectations when you start. Please don’t expect it to work as well as it would have with a tiny baby (and if it does you’ll be pleasantly surprised!). Be easy on yourselves and easy on your kids! You don’t want to cross the line into early conventional potty training. Remember that EC is not about pressure or forcing kids to go to the potty. You can practice EC on older kids by just telling them “you’re peeing” and offering the potty, but you might not be successful in getting them to use it.

Good luck to everyone in whatever you do!
post #2 of 15
I would just like to add that "It is never too late to start potty training/EC your babies". Sooner or later you will have to do it. No one sees a College person still in diapers. I know a lot of people get offended saying EC is not the same as potty training, but in the end, it serves the same purpose ... teaching your baby to go to the bathroom in the proper place.

"Going" in a diaper is like a habit, if you break the habit early, the less resistance you'll get later. There will be "strikes", but it's different strikes depending on the age of the child. Younger babies can arch their backs while older children can "tell" you no or run away, etc.

I admit I also started EC very later. DD was 11 mo when I started. But it's like bring home a new baby (or starting breastfeeding), very difficult at first and after several months, it gets a lot easier. This is because you can understand their signals and communicate with them better with time. I will be the first one to admit that there will be bad days where everything goes wrong, but with time, the good days will out weigh the bad ones.

I have read several potty training and EC books ... and every author says something different about when to start potty training/EC. Some say birth- 6 mo is ideal. Some say 1 yr -2 yr is ideal. Some say 2-1/2 yrs + to start is ideal. But there will be different "difficulties/strikes/problems" with each age group. Love and Persistance is the answer. Do not push too hard but offer the ability to use the potty when you can (have time).

Good luck to you all that try/do. Remember "This too will pass".
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Very good point on breaking the habit earlier. I didn't think of it from that point of view.

My point tho is to stress that EC is not about making kids go potty. We're not forcing them to do something they are not ready for yk? And taking a kid who has become used to diapers for the first year or 18 months of their life and telling them "now we're using the potty" could become a power struggle. With a newborn, it's normal because they aren't used to anything else I just want the moms who are attempting this to understand that it might not work the way they are thinking.

I don't get offended about the potty training angle, it's just not why *I'm* doing EC We started late and I'm not sure how much is actually sticking in his head. I fully expect he'll be back in diapers when he's walking. And if he isn't and IS one of the EC kids who trains early then great! That will be gravy But mainly, I'm doing EC because it makes sense to me *now*. It's how I want to take care of his elimination *now*. Whether he's using the potty by himself at 2 years or not until 4 doesn't matter. Every time he goes in the potty is one less time he goes on himself, so I'm happy
post #4 of 15
hmmm didn't read the posts cause i'm bleary-eyed from staring at my computor but wanted to post this link about late starters... http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/9089/67105
hth to all you budding ec'ers
post #5 of 15
Wow, I loaded up my computer to respond to the opening post, but Nonaws has already said most of what I wanted to say, and I thought that my viewpoint was a lonely one on this board.

Early training/late training: everything's relative. 1950s mothering manuals recommend training at one year. Doesn't mean that everyone did it, but it's not hard to believe. I don't believe that any and all past training practices were abusive. Where does this idea come from that mothers in the past were cruel?

Anyway, I'm not making a whole lot of sense, I need a cup of tea. If I get a chance, I'll post more later.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dodo
I don't believe that any and all past training practices were abusive. Where does this idea come from that mothers in the past were cruel?
Some past practices *were* cruel. Just as some modern parenting practices are cruel (think Ezzo!).

If a mom wants to do early conventional potty training that's her business. And I'm positive that any MDC mom who wanted to do that would do it gently

I just wanted to point out that ELIMINATION COMMUNICATION is something else. EC is not quite the same as using sticker charts, rewards, praise at poops, big kid talk, etc.

I'm really not sure if the responses are objecting to what I wrote : I'm finding myself a little defensive and I'm not sure if that's warranted. I'm sorry if anyone is offended by what I wrote. I still think mothers of older kids should read up on EC and understand what it is and what it is not before trying it on their toddlers. Reading a few posts on a board and deciding to "potty train" an older child with EC is bound to cause frustration and confusion and I thought I'd write this to help some moms avoid that.

post #7 of 15
I just started doing EC with ds, who is 17 months. I can definetly see that it would be easier with an infant. Some might say that we're just early potty training, but that's not realisticly what we're doing. Potty training is dreaded by most people I know, and few, if any are as gentle and respectful of the child as parents doing EC.

Do you ladies have any advice for someone starting EC later?

How long does it take before most children aren't using diapers? Ds has made amazing progress in a short time, but he doesn't want to go in the potty chair/toilet. He knows when not to go on the floor (although he thinks it's rather amusing to lift his leg and pee into/over the edge of something.) He's only peed once in the toilet/potty chair, but he's only pooped once on the floor (which wasn't a big deal, and he was embaressed.) I made a big deal when he peed in the potty chair, and I think was a mistake. I wanted him to be proud of himself, and to know he was going to the right place, but I think I embaressed him. When I told dh that he had peed in the potty chair ds said "no I didn't!"
Is this just normal?:
post #8 of 15
ShannonCC, please do not be offended. Actually, I'm glad you started this thread. I am writing very much supporting your topic "EC on older babies". When you say: (sorry don't know how to do quotes)

"EC is not quite the same as using sticker charts, rewards, praise at poops, big kid talk, etc. "

You are absolutely right! You can EC a toddler and not use stickers or rewards. Of course dd is not yet old enough to negotiate verbally so I'm not sure if stickers or rewards are valid with older children. I am still on your side here ...... But I do want to add that as a parent, you always talk to your child(ren) at their age group level. There should always be a good communication both verbally and physically to all their needs. So if a "big" child can tell you "I would like to use the bathroom to go potty.", you probably won't have to use sign language with your child like you would for a baby's communication. Do you know what I mean? I am writing hoping not to offend you ... I'm very sincere here. I know there are women that write to lash out and I really don't like that. It hurts. That's why I don't post often. Please take my apologies if it offended you.

The reason why you're EC/potty train is to TEACH your baby where to go to the bathroom. When they are older like my dd who can walk, they will want to HELP you more. LOL. So I would let her dry the toilet bowl, throwing toilet paper in the toilet, etc. And of course she's thrilled to have these responsibilities that it's like a "reward" for her. KWIM? But definately not stickers, she'll probably eat it. LOL. This is not to say woman that do this is bad. Whatever works best for the mother-child relationship is the best - since every one of those relationship is different and SO precious.

LUNAR FOREST:
My dd is not as old as your child, but I will try to answer the best I can. Don't worry about making mistakes with your child. Everyone makes mistakes. Every mom gets excited when their child does something for the 1st time. Don't get offended either if my answer is not right for you.

"How long does it take before most children aren't using diapers?" From what I have read, about 1 year of consistant potty training/EC for 100% completion. But of course you can go diaperless from the beginning and do a lot of cleaning at first and use timing. You can also go diaperless later on in the process once you're comfortable when he "goes" and understand his communication better. This is what a lot of EC moms that go diaperless do with their babies. I would say about ~1-2 mo of starting potty training/EC before a 8 mo or older child can signal/tell you and you picking the signal up. But they still will not tell you every time they "go". Be observate and make a "sss" sound when they "go" will help too.

I think what you're experiencing is normal, but I can't say for sure since dd is not that old yet. Since ds is older, let him participate more. Can he flush the toilet? Throw toilet paper in the toilet? Wash his hands? etc. This will encourage him to cooperate and not get discouraged.

You're doing a good job! Remember that EC/potty training in the end is the time spent with your child - not about how many less diapers/catches you can get in one day. Because time flies by, and soon theses will only be memories/experiences.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Nonaws, I wasn't offended. I *was* getting the feeling *I* had offended and was feeling a bit defensive but wasn't sure if it was in my head, lol!

It's just that there are so many misconceptions about EC out there already. In real life and on this board and others I've seen that some think it's wrong. That we're forcing our poor babies to perform tricks or not letting them be babies or other such nonsense. I can easily see how a mom who wants to train a long time diapered child might look at EC as just another potty training method. Then, if the child doesn't react well, it would just add to the reputation yk?

Unfortunately, for as much as I like to yak, I don't have a way with words, :LOL So let me just say, if you (anyone reading this!) are interested in EC, please do some reading and find out what it is about and what it is not! Ahleemah's site is a great place to start



Quote:
Originally posted by nonaws
Remember that EC/potty training in the end is the time spent with your child - not about how many less diapers/catches you can get in one day. Because time flies by, and soon theses will only be memories/experiences.
That's some of the best advice I've ever heard
post #10 of 15
Hmmm, well... nothing is ever really as clear as any one book or school of thought dictates. By pretty much all "EC" standards, we were waaaaaay too late to do any type of EC, though I had experimented & dabbled in it early on when my son was tiny, but had given up.

DS started showing signs of being extremely upset every time he went #2 around 10 or 11 months old. So at about the same time every day, I would put him on the potty. I soon caught a poop & DS was completely thrilled. Waved bye bye to it & we made the diaper sign as we cleaned him up & put a diaper back on. After a few days of this, he started making the diaper sign whenever he needed to go. I'd put him on the potty & he'd go. Overjoyed, he soon started walking to the potty & making noises to "tell" me he needed to go. If I'm ever busy or on the phone & he starts to "tell" me, he get quite upset if my response is delayed. I've missed his signs once or twice & he's rather furious & walks funny with the poo in his diaper. I haven't changed a messy diaper in months. He's now 16 months old.

He's grown very accustomed to wetting in his diaper & we don't catch pees very much, though he goes coverless quite a bit & he'll go peepee after he poos so we do catch those sometimes.

He disliked the little Bjorn potty, but loves the Bjorn potty seat that sits on the big potty immensely.

Anyway. So I'm not even sure if that's really "EC". But I listened to his needs when he communicated with me that he disliked going poopie in his diaper. It has never been anything forced or even "trained". It was just a gentle communication between the two of us.

It has me greatly interested in EC from birth & we'll do that with our next one.



I know a gal who runs a day care & routinely puts her 1 year olds on the potty without doing anything special. It's just the same time every day & they never mess their pants when they're with her.
post #11 of 15
nonaws - wonderful advice, thank you! A lot of what I've been hearing are things that I already new, and intuitively knew, but it is so good to have such things reinforced!

We were able to "catch" another pee today. Ds took a nap diaperless, so I was quick to get him on the toilet as as soon as he was ready. When he needs to go he has no problem going on the toilet, it's just that he's so used to going in his diaper that he doesn't often signal.

We've found that in the short amount of time that he's been going diaperless he's gone from peeing god-only-knows how much, to only a few tiems a day. He can certainly control himself, and he can hold it until he actually needs to go. I'm really amazed at how mature he is in this area, and that I had no idea!
post #12 of 15
bumping for wolfmom
post #13 of 15
Thanks for all the great advice ladies! I'm attempting to EC with my DS who is 23 months old. I know it's very late and he is almost traditional potty training age but after reading about EC it just seems like the gentlest, most respectful way to teach DS what the potty is for.

I'll be on the look out now for my expectations to stay with trying to "catch" DS and NOT expecting him to catch himself! I'll let you know how it goes over the next few months.

BTW, how long did it take before any of your older ECed kids were willing to sit on the potty without pants? DS seems really unwilling and I don't want to push it.
post #14 of 15
I am posting here again because I have found that there a a few of you "older EC"/potty training your babies too. And would like to keep the advices in this thread for future mommies.

I would like to note that my dd is my first child so everything is just my experience and opinion only. Please don't bash me for it, just take what you want and leave the rest.

ECing an older child is very similiar to ECing a younger one. You just have to adapt your techniques to your child as he/she grows. The advantage of ECing an older child is that they can communicate much better than just crying and perhaps even will walk to the potty. With this said, I do wish I have learned to EC dd when she was a newborn and will definately try it for the next baby.

As your child gets older, you start to communicate better with them. If you change your child on a pretty regular schedule, they will pee just right before a change (if they are old enough to hold their elimination). I would suggest bring them 1-2 min before that time to the potty.

When you first start to EC, this is definately my way to go. Start by bring them to the potty right when they wake up in the morning and right after they wake up from naps. It will take a week for them to adjust such as putting on pants, being in the bathroom, sitting on a potty, etc. At this time, let them pee & poop on the floor of the bathroom if them like or hold them on top of the sink or toilet. This will get them adjusted to going in the bathroom atmosphere more.

Keep a log of the time they pee, sleep, & eat/drink. You will find that after 3-4 weeks there will be a pattern. They are very accurate even to the min sometimes. Once you can determine when they "go", bring them to the potty 1-2 min before. If they want to stand and pee, let them for a week, but keep trying to "help" them sit right when you bring them into the bathroom the first time.

Right before they are peeping or pooping, make a "sss" sound (or whatever you pick for the signal). Also, show them a hand sign if they don't talk yet. About 1 mo, they will start to use the hand sign to tell you they want to go to the bathroom if they are old enough. Otherwise, they will give their own sign and you will have to be very observate.

OK, there will be times when they are on strike a lot more than a newborn. It's not easy and it could be crazy at times (especially that first month of ECing). Take it one pee at a time. Relax and don't push it. This is why there's this board for support. You hear so many good success here, but I will be the first one to admit that there will be days when I don't even catch any pee or poop. It's ok you're - not alone here. You can join my club.

Be creative and adapt regularly to your child as they grow. Maybe you can add some suggestions on this area in the thread too. For example, when dd doesn't want to pee and I know she will have to soon, I will put the potty in the bathtub and have her nake waist down with her bath toys. I will play with her outside of the bathtub and when she pees, I will make the "sss" sound.

I really hope that this will help some of you older ECing. Please don't get discourage because you think that you have miss that window of opportunity. That is not true! Children learns and adapting to things all the time - just like we do as parents. I can list many things I have learned from my first child that I can do better for my next - and I'm older than my child by many years.
post #15 of 15

should i wait?

ya know...my grandparents said my mother wore silk panties, not diapers, when she was a year old. ANd when my grandmother tried to tell my mother that it was possible to "potty train" a child younger than 2, my mother didn't buy it.

I seriously thought my grandparents had a distorted memory of my mother's childhood...know I wish I could ask my grandmother so many questions...

I want to try this with my 12 month old because I dread changing her diaper. I feel horrible saying this, but I would rather keep her in one diaper all day than face the diaper changes from h*** that we have been experiencing.
But we are taking a month long trip in 2 weeks and will be visiting several different people. Shoudl I wait til we get back?

I would really like to see one of the books from the 50's that says to start at a year.

And I am starting to really dislike the term potty training... it is all communication after all....

kirsten
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Elimination Communication
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Diapering › Elimination Communication › EC on older babies