Healing the Gut Tribe ~ May - Page 3

[Annikate]

I just got back from talking w/the lady who picks up our raw milk, butter, grassfed etc. and the farms actually sells Blue Ice for only $15 a jar. I think that's pretty good. Gonna get some in 2 weeks.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

DHA level is great, vit A and D are too low. Definitely finish the packet and then get a higher vitamin brand. I take Nordic Naturals because I take very high doses, so I am not sure what people take who just take a regular dose.

How do you know how much you need to take for particular cases? Maybe this is in the cheat sheet somewhere and I missed it? I feel a bit confused as the more I read the more I feel like I don't know what to do with the CLO!

[JaneS]

Bluets, thank you for that awesome post!

Links to Great Smokies (they are now called Genova) tests and Metametrix tests for leaky gut are on the cheat sheet. I'll have to add the red blood cell erythrocyte one from Metametrix that Amanda mentioned.

Also, a leaky gut in a newborn is normal and natural. Exclusive bf'ing is supposed to lay down the probiotics and immunoglobulins to seal it up. Drugs/antibiotics, formula supplementation, vaccines, etc. interfere with this. So what, like .05% of babies probably get really exclusive bm?

And undoubtedly the condition of the breastmilk/gut/nutrition in the mama effects the babe's gut sealing up too, the more I read.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Re: CLO
Patty, Jane, anybody???

How does this stack up with what the WAP foundation says about how much a nursing mom should take? I take one packet a day. Should I be taking more?

WAPF says a tablespoon a day of high vitamin CLO, which would mean about 15,000 - 20,000 IU of A. So at least 3 packets for the DHA/EPA probably but then the A and D is still too low. To take higher doses to get the right amount of A would be too much omega 3 fatty acids in the diet and NT has warned against same. However, more may be in order given other factors (depression, autoimmune conditions, etc.) and the therapeutic dose for those issues. Some info here on dosing: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...-oil-menu.html

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by New Mama

I'm new to this thread, and I've read the cheat sheet but I must be dense, because I'm really overwhelmed! So I hope you guys don't mind if I jump in and ask a few questions.

I don't know if I have a leaky gut, or if my (9-month old) son does, but here are the minor symptoms we do have. I've had acne and blackheads since I was about ten (25 years!) -- on and off, some times better than others, but I've never had really nice skin. I was on tetracycline (abx) for that for years as a teenager.

I had one or two periods when I was an adolescent, then NOTHING. I was on birth control pills for about ten years. I went off them a few years ago when we decided to get pregnant. Of course nothing happened and we ended up injecting me with hormones/fertility drugs and conceiving via IVF.

I've never had a yeast infection, have had no thrush issues with BF'ing, never have an GI problems, etc.

My son has been very healthy (only one cold so far) and seems like a normal, happy baby, but he was a major spitter-upper, and still does spit up. He's only had a tiny bit of solid food here and there and I consider him EBF. He mostly seems to react to any dairy or soy I eat. (I eat a mostly vegan diet.)

On Friday I started some supplements in the hopes of clearing up my skin: MSM, L-Glutamine, zinc, probiotics, and a digestive enzyme complex. I haven't noticed any difference, but my son has had more restless nights than usual. He has also been waking up needing to pass gas a bit more than usual, and it seems like he's straining to poop and doing so more often.

So...am I on the right track here? Any suggestions? Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and has some advice!

ETA: I also have always had a weak constitution -- I don't get really sick a lot, but I often feel run down, and I've never been able to exercise a lot without feeling exhausted (I used to run -- meaning barely jogging! -- and never got past 30 minutes and that was going VERY slowly).

Welcome!

It takes time to absorb all this, I've been at it for years now! I really believe if your bf child reacts to dairy or soy you have leaky gut, but don't really know that for sure, there hasn't been any research on this.

The "weak constitution" issue says to me that you are suffering vitamin and mineral deficiencies or perhaps thyroid issues which can absolutely lead to all these symptoms.

I'm struck by you and the other new poster today that both have vegan backgrounds (I was mostly vegan as well). Today my reading has absolutely convinced me that this is one of the main factors that led me and many others down this road. I ate a lot of processed soy which can lead to mineral and digestive enzyme deficiencies very quickly due to the phytate content. Also soy really messes with your thyroid too.

I've been reading alot about fat lately and the vegetable oils (soy, corn, canola) really hinders your ability to produce hormones and essential fatty acids and have been attributed to increasing fertility issues in modern times. I very much think getting off all vegetable oils did wonders for my skin. Because thinking back, that is the first change I made even before kefir/yogurt everyday, which was the next step I think. This was even before SCD. I also have never really had nice skin since puberty either and I do now.

I don't think probiotic capsules are enough to heal unless you have a lot of money and are able to take a bottle a week or more. I think you need the amounts in homemade kefir/yogurt.

[JaneS]

Shanna,

Thank you for starting this month's thread!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by moonshine

Subbing. I have been lurking along, but thought I would properly introduce myself. I started looking at healing the gut because of a very distended stomach, constipation and gas that I have been dealing with since January. My doctor diagnosised it as IBS, but I am not convinced of that. In any case, I feel like I was finally reading something useful reading Jane's cheat sheet. I have been following Eat to Live since last summer and before that (mostly) vegan, but with more grains.

I have no idea why I got this "condition" all of the sudden, and why it hasn't left, but I finally started making a bit of progress but cutting out all grains and sugar as of a week ago. I have also upped my fat intake. Still have lots of distention, and some sort of inflammation in the beginning of the large intestine.

Probably could ask lots of questions, but will start with this:

Is it worth making yogurt cow's milk dairy with pasteurized milk? I just made cashew yogurt and added some of the Baby Jarrow's probioitics that I have on hand. Thinking about making cococnut yogurt too. I did just make cococnut water kefir and coconut cheese.

Welcome!

Gas and distention means you are not digesting your food properly. Like I said above, I think a vegan diet can contribute to this. Unsoaked whole grains and soy have huge amounts of digestive enzyme inhibitors.

IBS means nothing to most doctors. It means they don't know what you have. However, there is actually some mainstream research showing it is SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth... an intestinal flora issue. I posted several months back an interesting article on this at Medscape I think. This can definately be the cause of the inflammation you feel in the upper part of your intestine. I had this too, feeling like you have a bit of a shelf right?

However, again, modern medicine mostly denies the intestinal flora role in digestive health and doesn't know what to do with it, despite the fact that it is the cornerstone of our immune and digestive system, weighs over 3 lbs in a normal adult and acts like another organ in its function.... we would die if our gi tract was sterilized.

Yes I think pasteurized milk yogurt is indeed helpful. That is what the SCD is based on, they strictly forbid raw milk yogurt. However, Baby Jarrow is just bifidobacterium I think, for the large intestine and evidence is that lactobacillus for the small intestine is what's needed for the digestive issues that you are experiencing.

Re: coconut
While reading my new favorite book Eat Fat, Lose Fat I think the major reasons why Firefaery and I have gotten well rather more quickly than SCD says, is liberal use of coconut oil. Will be posting more about this in a bit.

[quelindo]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Welcome!

It takes time to absorb all this, I've been at it for years now! I really believe if your bf child reacts to dairy or soy you have leaky gut, but don't really know that for sure, there hasn't been any research on this.

The "weak constitution" issue says to me that you are suffering vitamin and mineral deficiencies or perhaps thyroid issues which can absolutely lead to all these symptoms.

I'm struck by you and the other new poster today that both have vegan backgrounds (I was mostly vegan as well). Today my reading has absolutely convinced me that this is one of the main factors that led me and many others down this road. I ate a lot of processed soy which can lead to mineral and digestive enzyme deficiencies very quickly due to the phytate content. Also soy really messes with your thyroid too.

I've been reading alot about fat lately and the vegetable oils (soy, corn, canola) really hinders your ability to produce hormones and essential fatty acids and have been attributed to increasing fertility issues in modern times. I very much think getting off all vegetable oils did wonders for my skin. Because thinking back, that is the first change I made even before kefir/yogurt everyday, which was the next step I think. This was even before SCD. I also have never really had nice skin since puberty either and I do now.

I don't think probiotic capsules are enough to heal unless you have a lot of money and are able to take a bottle a week or more. I think you need the amounts in homemade kefir/yogurt.

Thanks for your comments. I have to admit I am very resistant to giving up veganism. I did become vegan for mostly health reasons, but I really love the positive consequences to animals and the environment as well. I did a LOT of research on diets and food and health on my journey to being vegan, and I feel pretty strongly that this way of eating is the "right" way.

Not to say that if Henry had any of the issues some of you dedicated Mamas are dealing with I wouldn't eat meat and dairy if I thought that would help him.

Sigh. Why does this have to be so hard and confusing? It's just food! We should just be able to eat when we're hungry and not have to think about it so much!

(By the way, I've always had a weak constitution and have been a vegan for only three years, and a vegetarian for a total of ten years...so does that still correlate?)

Anyway, I am trying to remain open-minded and do my best to inform myself. I really appreciate the information and support here. I'm just so overwhelmed and really don't know where to start...someone needs to tell me exactly what to do, step by step, lol!

I do have one specific question...I was reading on this site about the Houston Nutraceuticals products Peptizyde, Zyme Prime and No-Fenol -- can an adult take them and would my baby get the effects through my breastmilk? Or is it just that I would digest my food better, thus not passing the unwanted particles into my bloodstream and on to my baby via my breastmilk?

I really wish I had paid more attention to biology in high school. Who knew?

[JaneS]

Just posted this in Cheat Sheet but wanted to make sure everyone here saw it too:

Eat Fat, Lose Fat
by Dr. Mary Enig and Sally Fallon

The "Health Recovery" diet in the book is not for weight loss. It is for healing a number of autoimmune conditions including serious or not so serious digestive disorders:

• Recovery from surgery, life-threatening illness, debilitated weak condition, chemotherapy, malnutrition.
• Adrenal Weakness/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
• Allergies/Hay Fever
• Asthma
• ADD
• Constipation
• Diabetes and Insulin Resistance
• Emotional Problems: Anxiety, Depression, Mood Swings
• Fungal Infections/Candida
• Gallbladder Ailments
• Hormonal Imbalances/Women's Diseases
• Hypoglycemia
• Immune System/Autoimmune Disorders
• IBS/Colitis/Crohn's Disease
• Skin Problems: Eczema, Dry Skin, Wrinkles, Scaly Patches, Hair Loss
• Thyroid Imbalance
• Viral Infections: Epstein-Barr, Herpes, HIV/AIDS

http://www.eatfatlosefat.com/test-healthrecovery.html

The HR diet is based on a lot of coconut oil and coconut milk, lacto-fermented foods and beverages (kefir sodas and yogurt), and lots of homemade bone broth. They recommend raw milk and kefir/yogurt but there is a high calcium milk alternative made from coconut milk and KAL dolomite powder if you are allergic to dairy. And the fermented foods and kefir sodas are great dairy free sources of probiotics.

Also includes eggs, meat, liver (or just dessicated liver tablets), fish, cod liver oil, high vitamin butter oil, animal fats, vegetables, natural vitamin C from amla or acerola powder and only one serving of soaked grains/day. Swedish bitters or apple cider vinegar for liver and digestive support.

I'm going to try to do this diet in a couple weeks and then move to a modified form of it. I'm back on grains but don't want to go nuts on them and risk relapsing. And I feel the need for direction right now.

After reading this book I'm utterly re-convinced about the power of coconut oil, it's amazing stuff. Anti fungal, anti viral and anti bacterial. If you are not eating it right now, you should be!! Especially good for bf'ing mamas b/c then your bm will contain more monolaurin, the protective form of lauric acid, for your babe.

The cheapest CO I've found is my buying club co-op, 52 oz of Nutiva for $18. Very little fruit and veggies on this diet and tons and tons of coconut and bone broths. Literally like 10 T. of coconut oil or it's equivalent in milk a day! (The regular rec. for coconut oil is 3 1/2 T. day for an adult to see benefits).

Firefaery,
Did you ever taste Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil, don't they have like a gallon for under $30?

[quelindo]

Originally Posted by JaneS

While reading my new favorite book Eat Fat, Lose Fat I think the major reasons why Firefaery and I have gotten well rather more quickly than SCD says, is liberal use of coconut oil. Will be posting more about this in a bit.

I'm interested to hear more about this.

ETA: Nevermind, you were too quick!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

JaneS--can I just take extra cod liver oil instead of giving it to DD for her eczema? I don't really feel comfortable giving supplements to a baby that's not even old enough for solids.

Absolutely, fats are one of the most unique foods pertaining to bm composition. Meaning the types of fats you eat directly pass through to bm (because they are whole in your bloodstream.) So this means both good and bad fats. At least a tablespoon a day of CLO is recommended for pg/bf'ing mamas.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Firefaery,
Did you ever taste Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil, don't they have like a gallon for under $30?

This wasn't addressed to me, but...I bought some from Mountain Rose Herbs--it was $35 including shipping. As far as I can tell (I've only ever had theirs and NOW brand) it is great--smells coconutty and tastes good.

[Annikate]

re: coconut oil

I am loving coconut oil. I use it in baking almost everything but I didn't know you can mix it into milk and drink it. (?) Jane, did I read that right? What other ways can you use it?

[mom2zsel]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Literally like 10 T. of coconut oil or it's equivalent in milk a day! (The regular rec. for coconut oil is 3 1/2 T. day for an adult to see benefits).

How would you eat this? Smoothies? Eggs?

Thanks

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by AmyD

My lil' guy is 17m and barely eating. Waiting on the food allergy and enviromental tests to come back (sleep apnea and very very frequent nightwaking gasping for air). Oh, he also has a lil' rash too (and he is EC'd) so probably the enzymes over here too Well, he just developed a umbilical hernia (he had surgery at 6w for an inguinal hernia), sigh. So another surgery might be in his future, but this is not life threatening like the inguinal one.

But I regress.

We had the house deleaded before I was pregnant w/him. New windows, gov't grant and loan, excellent program, certified lead abatement contractors. Well, he just got tested and his lead is at 14 (venous). His iron is at 11 (normal is 70-100) and hemoglobin is at 9. I need ideas. (And a bigger plate to put all of this one, mine's gettin' crowded ) We just bought the gluten-free floradix, floravital, and started that yesterday. He won't eat red meat (which I've been trying to push for weeks). I'm thinking about getting some organic grass-fed liver and after the 14 days of frozen, grating it up and just putting it on my finger and sneakin' it in his cheek (which works for everything). Our dr. wants to put him on a prescription iron supplement and while I understand that his iron is incredibly low, I'm not sure how a supplement that is ridiculously hard on his system and unabsorbable, will help. Not to mention the crap (and SCD illegials) that will be in it.

Sigh.

Oh Amy!!

Supposedly grated frozen liver tastes like berries, so some put it in smoothies. Pasture fed egg yolks are a great source of iron too, mix them into everything. Vitamins A and D are vital to iron absorbtion too. So push the CLO and butter. Inorganic iron is quite toxic, I wouldn't do it. That's probably what is in px?

Isn't calcium supplementation used to displace lead in bones? Amanda uses some special bovine hoof stuff. The WAPF people recommend KAL dolomite powder.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by mom2zsel

How would you eat this? Smoothies? Eggs?

Thanks

1 - 2 T. of CO before meals in hot water or herbal tea.

Coconut milk, or raw milk with melted coconut oil for 2 snacks/day.

Plus smoothies, coconut milk in soups made with bone broths for meals and cooking with it, eggs, oatmeal, stir frys, coconut shreds.

Full fat coconut milk is actually pretty high in oil equivalent: almost 5 T/can I think from Bruce Fife's book but it's been a while since I've read it.

[nicolena]

i need some advice, guys!

(patty--we went down to one car too. i was freaked at first, but now it's no big deal. don't miss it!)

i take 4 tsps of clo a day. i'm stingy w/ it with dh, and very careful not to spill too much when trying to get it down the girls, but i figure bf'ing two, i should take it. it is pricey.

we are a month into SCD (6 weeks on scd legal only, and no sugar for a few months)--the girls (16 months) poos are finally getting better, but nowhere near what i imagine to be normal. and now i'm a little constipated, due i think to the fact that i made myself almond butter cookies (blanche, soaked, crisped, made in =to butter, and DID NOT SHARE!)--at least they lasted close to four days . anywhay, i think i'm not getting enough carbs. so i need help figuring out where to go next. so far, they seem to tolerate all forms of squash. they seem okay with green pepper and brocolli and asparagus and cauliflower. they are NOT fine with peas--they wouldn't go to sleep at all.

can i give them the applesauce i just made? (i made it awhile back, but i ate it all myself bc they didn't seem ready.)

can i add cheese? i added it once before, but it coincided with a tummy bug (i think). it doesn't seem like raw cheddar would give diarrhea, does it? i'd really like some cheese. tell me now is the time for cheese, please.

and then i just add in the nuts? try a banana pancake here and there? i'm so clueless. and all i do is cook. sigh.

does anyone (jane, firefaery, patty?) happen to have a log of what they ate when--or, rather, what their babes ate when? i know it's trial and error, but it would really help to kow that someone else a month in was still eating such a limited amount. i bought the maker's diet hoping for some guidance about introducing foods, but it hasn't helped. if anyone could pm me a food log--or post it here--i'd be very grateful.

oh--and seeds. iread somewhere not to add seeds til 3 months, but is that sunflower seeds vs seeds in zucchini? when can i stop deseeding the zucchini? again, i know it's trial and error; i just hate not to deseed and go back to diarrhea again.

thanks for any input! and keep up the good work, mamas!

[Pattyla]

OK I need ideas on how to eat the coconut oil. I tried frying my eggs in it but didn't like it. I'm stumped though! I just realized that i could be replacing the butter in the muffin recipe with this. I have a whole case of the stuff and can't figure out how to eat it. Should I get that book? Will that give me ideas?
I did get some ghee and am loving using that for cooking.

Oh and I made icecream last night. 1/2 cup berries 1 cup heavy cream yougurt, 1/2 cup reg yogurt, honey (1/2 cup?) and vanilla. It was SOOOOOO GOOD!!!! YUMMMMMMYYYYYY!!!! DH and I ate the entire batch. I would eat this anyhow. Oh and I got the grain free gormet book. Really good recipes in there. And a warning to those using the recipes in btvc. I think she tends to way under estimate the salt. I have had to at least double it in ever recipe in that book (and I'm not a big salt lover, I usually half salt in recipes).

I didn't realize that taking 1 tbsp of the blue ice was the minimum for nursing. Hmmm... Should I be taking more for healing? What about the butter oil? Is the 1/2 tsp a day enough? I can't find any info on how much of that to take.

Still thinking I should do the raw liver but skeeved out by it and haven't tried it yet. We are eating a ton of lamb lately so hopefully that is helping my anemia.

[nicolena]

That is what the SCD is based on, they strictly forbid raw milk yogurt.

what what what? you're kidding me. i'm making the yogurt with raw milk that i heat to 180. did i read this wrong?

it would explain a lot. please tell me if i need to go to regular pasteurized milk.

(btw--i'm reading eat fat to lose fat too--good stuff. i went and bought coconut milk to make coconut pudding and THEN saw i need to wait 5 more months before trying it. sigh.)

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by nicolena

(patty--we went down to one car too. i was freaked at first, but now it's no big deal. don't miss it!)

i take 4 tsps of clo a day. i'm stingy w/ it with dh, and very careful not to spill too much when trying to get it down the girls, but i figure bf'ing two, i should take it. it is pricey.

we are a month into SCD (6 weeks on scd legal only, and no sugar for a few months)--the girls (16 months) poos are finally getting better, but nowhere near what i imagine to be normal. and now i'm a little constipated, due i think to the fact that i made myself almond butter cookies (blanche, soaked, crisped, made in =to butter, and DID NOT SHARE!)--at least they lasted close to four days . anywhay, i think i'm not getting enough carbs. so i need help figuring out where to go next. so far, they seem to tolerate all forms of squash. they seem okay with green pepper and brocolli and asparagus and cauliflower. they are NOT fine with peas--they wouldn't go to sleep at all.

can i give them the applesauce i just made? (i made it awhile back, but i ate it all myself bc they didn't seem ready.)

can i add cheese? i added it once before, but it coincided with a tummy bug (i think). it doesn't seem like raw cheddar would give diarrhea, does it? i'd really like some cheese. tell me now is the time for cheese, please.

and then i just add in the nuts? try a banana pancake here and there? i'm so clueless. and all i do is cook. sigh.

does anyone (jane, firefaery, patty?) happen to have a log of what they ate when--or, rather, what their babes ate when? i know it's trial and error, but it would really help to kow that someone else a month in was still eating such a limited amount. i bought the maker's diet hoping for some guidance about introducing foods, but it hasn't helped. if anyone could pm me a food log--or post it here--i'd be very grateful.

oh--and seeds. iread somewhere not to add seeds til 3 months, but is that sunflower seeds vs seeds in zucchini? when can i stop deseeding the zucchini? again, i know it's trial and error; i just hate not to deseed and go back to diarrhea again.

thanks for any input! and keep up the good work, mamas!

I gave dd what we ate. I figured with her nursing 12+ times a day she was getting what I ate anyhow. I did go with just goat dairy for about a month for dd and me. Hmmm... Coconut was the first nutty thing we tried and it didn't work real well. I think we added nut flour by week 3 or so. I kept adding stuff in but didn't progress to uncooked/unseeded/unpeeled untill I saw improvement. If I had seen regression with any food I probably would have backed off but lack of improvement meant I kept going. Try to look at the big picture. I'm needing to try coconut again. Mmmmm macaroons... AF is here and I'm craving cookies. I have no log. I should but I don't.