Please Help!

[afishwithabike]

DH says that I can homeschool my DC on a list of conditions that he wants to see accomplished by the time she is supposed to be ready for kindi. Here is the list.........

Counting 1-20 (or higher Memorized not number recognition)
alphabet/Reading
Basic addition and subtraction


I think that was everything. Is this at ALL possible. She is understanding the letters of the alphabet and understands that numbers have order. She is nearly two. Can I do it? Is it asking a LOT? It seems like it to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[CortLong]

Why don't you get one of those 'What My Kindergartener Needs to Know books' and give it to your hubby to use as a judge for the end of the K year?

[joandsarah77]

Well it may or may not be possible to achieve. But even if you do, at what cost may that come? Sure some kids will be doing that by Kindy, simply because thats the way the come wired. other kids will not simply because there not ready for all of that and they may be learning diffrent things. I would ask him where he got those particular goals from? Why does he think she needs to know subtraction before kindy? If I was you I would go look online and find the requirements of your state or even better would be to know what the school she would attend would require from those starting kindy, somehow I doubt it would include addition, subtraction, and reading.
You might find a book like 'Better late then early' helpful for your dh (someone might have a better one) to understand that early presure for academics does your dd no favours.

[mz_libbie22]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

DH says that I can homeschool my DC on a list of conditions that he wants to see accomplished by the time she is supposed to be ready for kindi. Here is the list.........

Counting 1-20 (or higher Memorized not number recognition)
alphabet/Reading
Basic addition and subtraction


I think that was everything. Is this at ALL possible. She is understanding the letters of the alphabet and understands that numbers have order. She is nearly two. Can I do it? Is it asking a LOT? It seems like it to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

It's asking alot to want to have a kid reading and doing adding/subtracting at a pre-K age. Most kids that age aren't ready for that yet. Most pre-K kids can recite the alphabet and also visually recognize the letters and count to twenty though.

I don't know how'd I'd feel about getting a "list of conditions". I'd tell him kids learn at different speeds and to not put pressure on your DC to "keep up" to his standards that really, aren't even realistic.

[dharmamama]

I don't think his list is reasonable because it's completely arbitrary and doesn't take into account that your daughter is an individual. What if your daughter can make pancakes and weed the garden but can't add or read? Why is adding and reading more valuable for a four or five year old? What if your daughter went to school and was taught to read before she was ready and learned to hate reading and struggled with it and was put in the "slow" readers group? What if she were homeschooled and didn't learn to read until she was eight and at ten was reading the classics of Russian literature because she wanted to? Would she be better off with the school reading scenario?

IIWY, I would talk to my husband about the fact that being able to "perform" is not the same as learning and learning to love learning and that you prefer that your child love to learn rather than learn to perform.

Namaste!

[afishwithabike]

I think he just doesn't think it can be accomplished. He really doesn't want to home school in the first place. It may be his way of making sure I can't do it. I really don't understand why he wants our beautiful DC to lose their individuality by sending them to a clicky suburban public school. I wouldn't have sent them to the city schools either because they are behind in EVERYTHING and they are so punative. Our only other options are private or Montessori and they are quite expensive especially for a single income household.

[jessielove]

He wants her to have those learned *before* kindergarten? Most kids learn those things while *in* kindergarten.

I'm sure it's possible but if your child isn't ready to learn something forcing it on her can do more damage than good. To me, those ultimatums are silly and expect far too much. Those are things that are taught in Kindergarten and first grade in public schools {at least that is how it went last year when my son went to the local PS kinder} and you are being told to teach them at a pre-school level. It's putting too much pressure on the child, IMO.

If you decide to try pushing up to his expectations, be sure to make it fun. Try using flashcards to play an alphabet memory game. Count fruits in the grocery store. Sing songs, play with blocks, talk about their colors and how many there are. Play with colored manipulatives {M&Ms, small blocks, anything really}. Make it less about work and more about fun ~ I think small kids often retain information better that way. Try getting an easel and letting her play with paints. Surround your environment in books and read to her often. Things you probably already do

[Cee4]

If you wait till your child is 4 or almost 5 you can pretty much just teach them those things by playing with letter puzzles and songs in just a few months.Although I dont agree with the letter recognition by name.Personally learning the sounds of each letter is far more important then learning the names or the order they go in...Also I hope by basic addition and subtraction he just means five grapes minus 2 grapes equals 3 grapes kind of thing ,basic addition and subtraction can be a very abstract thing to learn if not using items like food or toys or fingers....Why do men think they can just Lord it over the women and tell them this is how its going to be? How much time does he spend teaching/playing with her? Sorry I guess Im spoiled as my dh is very easy going..

Personally if she knows all the things he demands, what would be the point of kindergarten? Usually thats what kindergarten teaches them...

[chaos_pie]

Maybe it might be more important to discuss why he wants to see a certain "academic" progress. I mean, say she went to preschool and was unable to attain these goals?

It seems to me that there might be other ways to measure whether homeschooling is a success or not. Some of the things we have used in our household (and remember, we are 100% reluctant and skeptical homeschoolers ): happiness and joy of our son (it returned after he was pulled from ps); peace in the family; creativity (what is he building, making-- this also totally returned after removed from ps); developing his OWN interests (he kept following along what his peers thought was cool); developing verbal skills at conflict resolution (still, STILL, STILL working!!)

Of course I do track "academic" things-- we work on reading, math, a bit of writing, exploring interests in an interdisciplinary way (we tend to read a bunch about warfare-- but there is Roman, Civil War, the pentagon, Medieval etc ;-)

Good luck in your journey!

[illinoismommy]

Originally Posted by joandsarah77

You might find a book like 'Better late then early' helpful for your dh (someone might have a better one) to understand that early presure for academics does your dd no favours.

Exactly!!! Yes, I would say it is likely that your child could be pushed to learn all of that by kindergarten. But it might come at a high cost!! Its really not worth it. It is far better to wait for reading readiness than to shove it down their throats (not saying you want to do that!) and although I hope my son wants to learn by the time he is 5 simply to stave off the homeschooling naysayers, I won't force him to do it... he'll have to show interest. Definitely do more reading on the subject, I haven't read "Better Late Than Early" but I have read others, and maybe I'll find that too.... who's the author?

[Eris]

So, if he doesn't want you to homeschool, do you really think that if your DD has accomplished his list of conditions that he won't find other reasons to not go along with homeschooling?

It seems to me you need to address some much more fundamental differences in philosophy with your husband before even beginning to discuss what your DD will do in 3.5 years.

[afishwithabike]

I feel that he doesn't think I can do it. I am not sure that it is about her at all. I am hoping that I can change his mind to these things before it really comes up. Yeah, I play games with her that involve minor counting etc. She likes to run so I do this thing where I say 1...2...3...Greenlight and she takes off running. then red light means stop. It's basic I know but she's not quite two. I am NOT into pushing people into things. HE doesn't like being pushed. If I see that it is NOT happening at the pace she wants to go I'll have to address it differently. I refuse to push somebody into learning. I don't want her to HATE it. I love her way too much to do that to her.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

DH says that I can homeschool my DC on a list of conditions that he wants to see accomplished by the time she is supposed to be ready for kindi. Here is the list.........

Counting 1-20 (or higher Memorized not number recognition)
alphabet/Reading
Basic addition and subtraction

I think that was everything. Is this at ALL possible. She is understanding the letters of the alphabet and understands that numbers have order. She is nearly two. Can I do it? Is it asking a LOT? It seems like it to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

By the time she's supposed to be ready for kindergarten? I don't understand where he got these ideas. Those are things that are generally introduced in kindergarten these days - which is still too early in the view of a lot of people who work with children.

Take a look at some of the articles on this page: preschool/kindergarten - many from professional educators who are very concerned about this kind of thing. Of those, take a look especially at these two:
--A Call to Action on the Education of Young Children - endorsed by over 150 professional educators and researchers.
--Big "A" and Little "a", by Vivian Gussin - written by an award winning preschool/kindergarten teacher of 37 years experience and author of 11 books.

Sure, there are children who can do those things at that age - but it's not the norm, is far from necessary, and it could even be counterproductive. What's the point? Is that supposed to make her a better student years from now when she reaches an age where academic learning begins? There's no race. To teach her those things just to be teaching them to her - to prove something or other - makes absolutely no sense in the big picture of providing her with an education that fits her and her personal needs.

Instead of trying to figure out if those things can be accomplished - which varies enormously from child to child - I think you should put the effort into seriously re-educating your husband about developmental readiness and how learning and education work. Lillian

Edited to note - Sorry, I didn't notice there were already a lot of responses. But it's heartening to see that they're in agreement with my rant.


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[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by mz_libbie22

I don't know how'd I'd feel about getting a "list of conditions".

Ooooh, I know how I'd feel about it! :

- Lillian

[cottonwood]

I don't know if she could do it -- some children probably can, but most probably aren't developmentally ready for it.

In any case, it makes no sense to base your choices for her educational future on it. So what if she can't subtract by the time she's five? That has nothing to do with whether she should be learning at school or at home.

I think if you make this deal, you're making a deal with the devil. At the very least you need to re-negotiate something more reasonable; or simply refuse to accept school as the default.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

In any case, it makes no sense to base your choices for her educational future on it. So what if she can't subtract by the time she's five?

That's one of the best points that's been brought up. There have been plenty of brilliant people who've sailed through college without having read till they were 8 or 9 or whatever. Making a little child perform like a trained seal to determine her future educational path is not fair to anyone concerned.

At the very least you need to re-negotiate something more reasonable; or simply refuse to accept school as the default.

I like the refusal part - Lillian

[Butter]

Those are kindergarten skills. Yes, it's very possible that she can know those things before the age she would be for entering kindergarten. And it's possible she won't. I did. My daughter did. My son surely will (since he wouldn't go to kindergarten until just before he turns 6 due to cutoff dates). But we were ready. It's possible she won't be and that's perfectly okay. You can't really force a kid to learn particularly if they just aren't ready. It's totally unfair to place such a burden on you and totally unfair to the child if she is not ready to learn that stuff at 3 or 4.

[3momkmb]

Possible? Sure.

Probable?

Advisable? Nope

I agree with the other posters that she should not be pushed.

If it helps any learning letters is a K goal here (meaning they want it mastered by then END of K). So is learning number and counting to 20. Addition/subtraction and reading aren't expected until 1st grade. Heck addition/subtraction aren't even introduced until then!

My DD didn't read until she was 8 and my DS is headed in the same direction. DD was pushed (she was in school), DS wasn't and it made no difference. IME when they are ready, they are ready.

[afishwithabike]

I mentioned something to him lastnight about his list of "conditions" I reminded him that those things were meant for children entering first grade and he said "I know". The point of his list was that he doesn't want me homeschooling our children. I can't see why he would do this to our children. I really can't. Sitting and being caged up like with hardly any fresh air for that long makes me sick. Getting sub par food for lunch. I am not sure how well a good healthy lunch would keep in a closet. All those rediculous rules that seem not to apply to certain students. UGH. The thought is breaking my heart. I wasn't necessarily into HSing before having my children but I definitely am now. Please send vibes our way. We are in for a rough road.

[Niamh]

Originally Posted by afishwithabike

I mentioned something to him lastnight about his list of "conditions" I reminded him that those things were meant for children entering first grade and he said "I know". The point of his list was that he doesn't want me homeschooling our children.

Wow. Good luck.