"Is she white?"

[amygoforth]

I also posted this in The Childhood Years, but I wanted to chat w/ you all as well...

Evan has been curious about skin color lately. He's not quite three, and I'm in no hurry for him to learn about racial differences. I live in a pretty racially-divided area, and many of the caucasion folks around here (my parents and ILs included) are pretty racist. They insist they aren't... yet they classify people by their color. For example, when he started daycare, my MIL referred to his teachers as "the white teacher" and "the black teacher." Grr. Why did it matter what color they were? They were kind women helping a scared little boy transition to day care so I could go back to work. Anyway, DH and I have mentioned this to all the grandparents -- that we'd prefer not to classify people by color. That said, we can't control what they say to the kids when we're not around.

So... what do I do when Evan asks me about skin color? I want to answer him honestly, but do I use the common "white" and "black?" Of course, he wouldn't understand "caucasion," "African-American," or "Hispanic" as colors. I've been literal with my anwers, as in, "Well hon, that lady is kinda pink dontcha think?" or "That boy is brown like mama's coffee. People come in all kinds of pretty colors."

Have any of you had this conversation(s) yet?

[my4magpies]

most of the time I think they are just looking for a simple answer...I just explained to DD (my first) that we are all different colorseach, brown, etc. I didn't use "black" bcus is anyone "actually" black? She was satisfied and we moved on. none of my other kids has even brought it up at all (yet)

[Thursday Girl]

i try to tell them the actual color. we are peach or tannish. when i said what color my dh was she said "no he's spotted" he has a lot offreckles and suchespecially onhis back, andsince he was sleeping next to us that's whatt we were looking at. i think you hnadeled it beautifully.

courtney nak

[xmasbaby7]

Don't know if this is your cup of tea or not, but I think my mom did a good job making me see around race and just see the person.

She told me she always said she everyone is the same underneath and if we all got married and had babies together, we would all be a beautiful golden color.

For some reason, this worked for me as a kid. It promoted inclusiveness in the abstract, not segregation. And also made it not seem like a big deal.

[Bartock]

I live in a small town and there is very few African American people here. The first time my DS(he was 4 at the time) saw the little boy he said(pretty loud too)"why is that kids skin all chocolaty brown mom?" I felt embarrassed because the little boy heard him, and I hope he did not feel offended. I just told DS that lots of people are different cultures and have lots of skin tones.

[aisraeltax]

Il's can be problematic. when ds1 was younger (around 2 or so), my MIL's opinion when seeing an African-American driving a nice car was that he was either a professional athlete or a drug dealer. :
i purposefully exposed ds1 to a multi-national culture. due to living in college married student housing, he was exposed to alot of different ppl. and 2 of his babysitters were Indian (from India). he just grew up knowing there is no difference between ppl based solely on their color.
fastforward to ds2. we lived in South Boston. OMG...the only african-amer's there were walking quickly through. none lived there, other than some govt. housing at the border of the area. It was horrible and i had all sorts of questions from ds2 about race. I simply told him that ppl come in all different colors and thats one of the things that makes us all interesting. i feel unfortuante that ds2 did not grow up as ds1 did. SB was a horrible place for me and my family to live. As a Jewish woman and a woman who WOHM, i was discriminated against many times. My best friend there told me once "well, you aren't like them" when referring to the Jewish community in an adjacent area. I got out of there as soon as I could.
Now I'm in NH and its not that much better. I dont experience discrimination but ds3 is not likely to be around many diverse ppl b/c there aren't many where we are.
good luck!

[LadyButler]

I may get blasted for this... but I don't see any problem with referring to teachers as the white teacher and the black teacher. I don't see that as any different than saying the blonde teacher and the brunette teacher... but that's JMO. I feel that if you can describe someone by their eye color or hair color but not their skin color, then more attention is being drawn to skin color by avoiding it. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this... but it's sort of like me going out of my way to say I'm vertically challenged rather than I'm short. Make sense?

[birthjunkie27]

:

[IncaMama]

ooooh this is my field. LOL (my phd research is on racial identity, racial socialization, etc)

i think that at his age, what you're doing is a approach. i'd avoid using negative analogies like the color of dirt, etc (i know a mom who did that, i'm NOT saying that you did that). talking about the literal colors of skin focuses on the fact that there is a vast array of beautiful difference among us and that none of us have exactly the same color skin (even within races). i'd talk briefly about the different skin tones in your family, different hair colors, different eye colors. the goal at this age, imo, should be to *normalize* difference. to make it a non-issue to notice other people's colors, shapes, sounds, etc. these are not taboo subjects until they are laden with negativity.

i would also encourage him to talk about his own skin tone. a lot of times, at least within the white community, kids grow up thinking that other non-whites are the only ones who "have color" or "are a color". it's embedded in society that white racial identity isn't really examined because whites don't often face barriers based on race.

ANYWAY - at this age, i'd stay with these concrete terms. the MOST important thing is for YOU to feel comfortable with how you approach it. if YOU act stressed about it, if YOU keep your voice hushed about it, your child will definitely pick up on it. it is not shameful to notice difference. it's important and expected. it's something to celebrate, not shy away from.

once children are older, i personally think that every family should talk about the history of racism and what it has meant to each of us (because it DOES affect all of us, both positively AND negatively). i think that to gloss over it and not ever talk about race does our children a disservice (not saying any of you are doing that).

and one GREAT example of how i hope to be:
i was in a grocery store a few years ago (right in the thick of my doctoral coursework where we were learning abuot racial socialization among toddlers) and a little (approx) 5yo (appeared caucasian) asked about a woman's very dark skin who was ahead of him in line (i was behind the boy in line) and his mother said "yes, it's a very nice deep shade, isn't it?" didn't hush her voice at all, didn't act embarrassed AT ALL that her son had just noticed the woman's skin tone. the boy asked his mom if she was born here or somewhere else where everybody was that color. so the mom said "well, honey, i don't know. you can't tell something like that without asking the person. would you like to ask her where she's from?" the boy said he did. so he touched the woman on the arm and she turned around with the BIGGEST smile on her face (she was probably in her mid 40s or so) and he asked her "were you born here or somewhere else with other people with chocolate skin?" and she told him that she was born very far away in a place called Nigeria and that her family was still there. the boy asked her if she missed her mommy and daddy and she said yes, very much so. the boy then said that he hoped she would see them again soon. and then he said "it looks like you have really delicious skin." she smiled again and said "thank you very much, that feels nice to hear." they then started talking about other random stuff (like how he had a soccer game later and he likes apples LOL)

there was no embarrassment from the mom. zero. and honestly, why should there be? the woman's skin tone was darker than anything her son had seen, and he was attracted to it's richness. and he asked about it. what else is he supposed to do? he's doing his part to learn about his world, it's up to US to show them how positive a thing it can be.

omg sorry for the longass post. LMAO!

[IncaMama]

Originally Posted by LadyButler

but I don't see any problem with referring to teachers as the white teacher and the black teacher.

i agree, but i might go one step farther and ask the teachers how they identify themselves. this is, of course, if these are your children's teachers that you have a relationship with and will have one with for a while, so that you can describe them to your children with accuracy and show your children that how they identify themselves is more important than how we identify them.

[amelissam]

We live in an area that is around 70% black (we are white). This has never been an issue with us because it shoudn't be. My kids know that people come in all shapes and sizes and colors. The scenario that you wrote about in the grocery store could be me and my kids. They comment on how dark folks are that are exceptionally dark, but it's more of a "wow, how cool" comment, and the other person usually thinks it's pretty cool that the kids are so cute about it. I've never been embarressed by their observations. They ask about hair more than skin color, and I have to explain to them that everyone's hair is different, and we can't all do the same things to our hair!

[LadyButler]

Originally Posted by michelemiller

and one GREAT example of how i hope to be:
i was in a grocery store a few years ago (right in the thick of my doctoral coursework where we were learning abuot racial socialization among toddlers) and a little (approx) 5yo (appeared caucasian) asked about a woman's very dark skin who was ahead of him in line (i was behind the boy in line) and his mother said "yes, it's a very nice deep shade, isn't it?" didn't hush her voice at all, didn't act embarrassed AT ALL that her son had just noticed the woman's skin tone. the boy asked his mom if she was born here or somewhere else where everybody was that color. so the mom said "well, honey, i don't know. you can't tell something like that without asking the person. would you like to ask her where she's from?" the boy said he did. so he touched the woman on the arm and she turned around with the BIGGEST smile on her face (she was probably in her mid 40s or so) and he asked her "were you born here or somewhere else with other people with chocolate skin?" and she told him that she was born very far away in a place called Nigeria and that her family was still there. the boy asked her if she missed her mommy and daddy and she said yes, very much so. the boy then said that he hoped she would see them again soon. and then he said "it looks like you have really delicious skin." she smiled again and said "thank you very much, that feels nice to hear." they then started talking about other random stuff (like how he had a soccer game later and he likes apples LOL)

That is the MOST awesome story I've ever heard!!! Mind if I pass it to friends?

Now... what should I say when I'm in the checkout line with then 2.5 or 3 yo dd and the cashier is a rather androgenous(sp?) looking woman and dd says loudly "Is that a boy or a girl?":

Whew!

[MistyB]

We have had the talk. He has black/African American teachers, Indian teachers and Caucasian teachers that he is around every day in his class room. His class is over 50% non Caucasian. He has referred to kids having darker and lighter skin than himself. He calls his skin peach and other skin tan and brown.

We have talked about animal fur...that dogs and cats have all different colors of fur but under the fur they are all the same.

It does kind of make me a bit sad though as it seems like the students (left on their own) seem to separate into homogeneous groups. The teachers consistently mix it up and keep everyone interacting but I have been shocked to see the kids not mixing it up when they get to choose.

[IncaMama]

misty - this is totally normal at their age. racial homophily is pretty consistently found in young kids who are still just getting out of the parallel play stage. everything is seen as an extension of themselves, so they are likely to be drawn to those that look the most similar to them. the teachers are doing exactly the right thing by mixing it up, but this is ABSOLUTELY normal behavior and nothing to worry about *yet*. it's precisely at this age that they should begin to learn about others and about difference so that when racial homophily is a less compelling instinct they will have friends of all races available to them.

[xkoliex]

I'm so glad someone posted about this... I know Tori is very young, but I want her to be able to accept other people the way they are when she gets older.

I didn't get that opportunity. I had never seen an african american person until I was in the 6th grade. I don't know if I were sheltered or just hadn't come across one. And of course, once you're that old, the groups have already formed. Also, it was around that time that I was abused by a hispanic gentleman... So now I have issues with both races. I don't not like them, its just hard for me to get comfortable around them.

This probably sounds terrible, I'm not in the least bit racist. I just have problems letting go in front of African Americans and Hispanics. After a while of being around that same particular person then I'm straight, but the first few times are extremely awkward for me

[amygoforth]

Michele, I'm so happy and lucky that you are in my DDC!!!! You rock, mama!

That grocery store story is beautiful, and I hope I can be as confident as that mom. Several months ago Evan noticed a very dark-skinned man at the grocery store. Evan asked, "Is he black?" loud enough for him to hear. I said, "Actually, I think he is more of a dark brown color." I tried to catch the man's eye, but he didn't look at me. He was stocking the shelves and may not have even heard our coversation, but it would have been nice for Evan to see a positive reaction from him.

[anonymous4_20]

I think it's really funny what kids do or don't notice about race. I used to teach in a 95% African-American school where 100% of the teachers were caucasian. One day one of my first-graders gave me a picture she had drawn of an African-American lady with long beaded braids. I asked her who she had drawn, and she said "That's a picture of you!" She didn't even see a difference between her and me--she just drew me like she would have drawn anyone in her family. It was so cute! If only we adults could see it that way.

[DesireeH]

I've been literal with my anwers, as in, "Well hon, that lady is kinda pink dontcha think?" or "That boy is brown like mama's coffee. People come in all kinds of pretty colors."

I say that too. I said "look at mama's arm....it's pink!" I dont want him saying "black" and "white" right now. We have friends of all colors and I can just imagine him going up to someone and saying something weird......so I'm trying to show him that there are SOOOO many shades of people and that everyone is just different. "See, papa is tan, mama is pink, etc etc."

[candipooh]

Originally Posted by LadyButler

I may get blasted for this... but I don't see any problem with referring to teachers as the white teacher and the black teacher. I don't see that as any different than saying the blonde teacher and the brunette teacher... but that's JMO. I feel that if you can describe someone by their eye color or hair color but not their skin color, then more attention is being drawn to skin color by avoiding it. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this... but it's sort of like me going out of my way to say I'm vertically challenged rather than I'm short. Make sense?

I agree with you

My daughter's are half mexican and they have noticed the different colors of skin in the family. My oldest was about 4 when she asked why my skin was so white. She is dark like my husband. The middle daughter is a little bit lighter and my youngest is a little bit lighter than her. I joke that if I have another one they will be blond and white as I am cuz each kids gets lighter and lighter

I always talk about the rainbow and how boring it would be if it was just one color. The same with people. More colors means more beauty.

Now if I can keep my 2 year old from pointing at each and every blck child in cornrolls and yelling "Daysa, Daysa" her good friend is Daysa and she is black and wears cornrolls.

[wirewendy]

Geographic Origins

I am wondering, I know that small kids can't understand a term like "geographic origins" but they can understand the sun, how people move around, and eat different foods and are familiar with the term "long long ago". Can't you explain something like "long long ago their grandparents lived in a place called "____" where it is very "warm, cold, etc." and over the years their skin faded into a light color, or whatever. We all started out very dark and as we migrated further North or South, our skin faded into pink. I think those are all terms that kids can understand. My daughter is half Indian (East India) and that is how I am going to explain skin colors to her.