"Is she white?" - Page 2

[IncaMama]

wendy - yes that's a great way to approach it when they're a bit older (depending on each child's cog. dev).

amanda - this is precisely the area i started my research in 6 yrs ago (though i have migrated to an older sample). i was researching pre-k children's recognition of race using cards with photos of kids from dif backgrounds (looking at self-identification, sorting, +/- attributes & stereotypes, etc). most children could correctly self-identify racially by around age 4. before that kids used other markers (she smiles a lot like me, she has a barrette like me, she's wearing pink like me, etc). correct attribution of the "other" happens a bit later. it's fascinating stuff. i could go on and on.

and Amy - *i'm* the lucky one to have all of you!! but your comment made my day. thanks, mama *hug*

[IncaMama]

i wanted to add that i personally feel that it is also my duty as a parent to explain the history of racism and oppression when my kids are old enough to grasp it and not internalize things. again, that depends on indiv cog dev but i'd say roughly pre-teen (10-12yo).

[darkpear]

Great thread! Amalie hasn't noticed race/color yet, perhaps because we do live in a pretty diverse neighborhood. Actually she thinks every woman we meet, regardless of age or appearance, is Grandma Lots of good ideas here for when she does start figuring it all out though

[wirewendy]

International Paper Dolls

When I was very young, I had paper dolls that were international. I lived in the woods in a "live-off-the-land" experiment of my parents. My mom wanted to be sure I knew that there were lots of other people in the world other than our farmer neighbors, who are all from Northern European descent. My best friend was the only black girl in 100 miles. The only thing I thought was unusual about her is that she had really curly hair. So I grew up thinking that we were all the same inside, just different on the outside. I could have been born anywhere on earth. I just happened to be born in Minneapolis. This, I think, kept me from developing any predjudices. But I also missed out on understanding differences in culture. We aren't actually all the same. We are very very different. Teaching about different cultures is hard, I think, when there are no examples around. I think that teaching about culture is just as important as explaining skin color difference.

[IncaMama]

yes, that's so very true wendy....that's the only downside to teaching kids that "we're all the same". that's why at a young age (until 4 or 5) i'd focus on the concrete things but then get progressively more complex as they get older. skin color and hair are the biggest things and easiest to notice at first. they are brilliant little souls and will be observing everything. but rather than point out that we're all the same, i'd point out the exact opposite. we are all unique, you can't tell what someone is like by looking at them, kids in all parts of the world enjoy playing and having fun but they find different games to play and things to do.

i am of mixed racial descent. my mother is white and my father is south american indian (Inca to be exact). we spent a lot of time in Peru when i was little and this really drove the point home. i was able to see that we all have the same value as ppl, but that within each culture there are as many differences as there are ppl.

i will be going to my office next week and will get the list of children's books that i think really do a good job of guiding kids through these concepts. it's so exciting to me that as parent we can really shape our world's future by how we socialize our children to think about culture and race.

[Thursday Girl]

this thread has been amazing. i can't wait until you post the books Micheele. really looking forward to it.

am i the only mom in this ddc who hasn't continued my education(yet)? you are all so intelligant and educated as well.

courtney

jewely types- wgtrywetfft3jt3yur4y6ur63426r485642648466555555566

[darkpear]

Nah, Courtney. I'm a college drop-out. Multiple times actually - I just tend to get bored after a couple semesters, and I never did decide on a major. I'll get back to it one of these days.

I keep seeing this thread title and it makes me think of that Pixies song. "Is she weird, is she white, is she promised to the night..." probably just me huh

[hottmama]

Julian knows that there are black people and white people, but we often talk about more subtle differences in skin color (Julian is light pink, mommy is tan, Luka is light brown, Robert is medium brown, etc). Since our little family has such a range I don't think he has any chance of becoming a racist. He doesn't seem that interested in skin color, but he does use black and white to differentiate when necessary ("White Ashley with baby Liam, or black Ashley?" etc)
At 3, he's not yet old enough to understand history at all, but I have told him about segregation (and how wrong it was-- he wouldn't have a baby brother if we lived back then, etc), since it happened in his grandmas' lifetimes. I don't know whether he "got it" or not. I think by 4 or 5 we'll be discussing geographical origins, slavery, etc. I will NOT raise a "colorblind" child in this house.
My partner and I are both Pan-African studies students (I'm a minor, he's a major- our other studies are in women's and gender studies- my major and his minor) so I feel like we are well educated on these topics.

[Celtain]

DS1 is almost 8 and since he figured out that people come in all colors and sizes he sort of looks at it all as an accessory. "Oh Brian is the one with the brown eyes, REALLY tan skin, and the blue sneakers"

It is all about a vantage point, If you don't make it weird for them they won't be weird about it, KWIM?

[IncaMama]

http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/pubs/katzsy...oza-reese.html

this article is a MUST READ for anybody who really wants to be very conscious about promoting multiculturalism through children's literature. MUST MUST MUST MUST READ! it has GREAT resources, references some awesome books on the subject. i've read "The Anti-Bias Curriculum" (Louise Derman-Sparks, 1989) and while it should be updated for sure, it's a GREAT place to start, especially if some of you will be homeschooling.

this is one of the biggest reasons that i'm considering homeschooling. i feel that the public school system does NOT do a good job of promoting multiculturalism and appreciation of diversity.

i'm gonna find some of my other online resources for you and then next week i'll post my children's book list.

[IncaMama]

and just to highlight one of the sections of the article i just posted. when you're looking for a multicultural children's book, here is a list of questions to consider:

Are characters “outside the mainstream culture” depicted as individuals or as caricatures?
Does their representation include significant specific cultural information? Or does it follow stereotypes?
Who has the power in this story? What is the nature of their power, and how do they use it?
Who has wisdom? What is the nature of their wisdom, and how do they use it?
What are the consequences of certain behaviors? What behaviors or traits are rewarded, and how? What behaviors are punished, and how?
How is language used to create images of people of a particular group? How are artistic elements used to create those images?
Who has written this story? Who has illustrated it? Are they inside or outside the groups they are presenting? What are they in a position to know? What do they claim to know?
Whose voices are heard? Whose are missing?
What do this narrative and these pictures say about race? Class? Culture? Gender? Age? Resistance to the status quo?

[anonymous4_20]

Michele, what an awesome link! It really breaks things down very well. It's amazing how deeply entrenched these stereotypes are in the subconcious. I doubt that anybody writing those books that were used as bad examples set out to give a poor example of a certain culture. In fact, it was probably the opposite. It's a shame that our society makes it so hard for people to see through stereotypes and, in fact, encourages them. It reminds me of the recent strand of "man" commercials on TV: you're not a man unless you use this shampoo or eat this burger! Of course in advertising I think it IS intentional, and that's a lot of what causes the stereotypes to be so prevelant.

BTW, I worked in the public schools for several years. It was my experience that it really depends on the individual teacher as to how much these issues are covered. I felt that it was just as important as the subject I was teaching. I taught music, and made sure that every student knew that the majority of what they are listening to on the radio would never be around if it weren't for multicultural influences. Many of my colleagues were also trying very hard to work multiculturalism into their lessons. Unfortunately, many of my colleagues weren't trying at all.

What a neat discussion topic this is!

[wawoof]

Thanks so much for all your perspectives. Ethan's preschool teacher and several of his friends at school are of African descent, so this topic has come up for us. We try to describe color as literally what it is - we're "pinkish yellow" and his teacher and friends are "brown". And daddy is darker than Ethan, Galen, and I are when his skin gets tanned by the sun The black-white thing is so linked to bad-good, inferior-superior, etc, and IMO is also arbitrary. I grew up in Texas and some hispanics and darkly tanned whites called themselves white but were darker than some people of mixed african descent, who were called black. Even African-american is problematic because what about when my child encounters someone who is actually African, Jamaican, or British? I hope my kids will just see color as one of many value-neutral aspects of the wonderful diversity around us.

[kgrfcharlton]

This has been great! We are around mostly "whities" w/the exception of some Hispanic friends. I want my children exposed to a healthy view of all people. This can b e challenging in the South. I was at a b-day party for DH's nephew & the sil's father (not dh's dad) started saying the n word. WHAT?! I just kinda walked away, fumming! Dd was 18 months old then, but I let dh know that I would have to say something if he ever did this again (that was the 1st time we had ever met him, & hopefully the last).

I have gleaned some good things here. Thanks