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If a friend of your chooses to circ...do you stay friends with them? - Page 9

post #161 of 287
Quote:
And those of us who say that we would, or have, keep saying over and over again that it's not a punishment, it's just that we literally cannot stand to be around them.
I get that. I never said it was wrong to not want to be their friend, I was just surprised.

However, comparing FGM to circ is tough for people to relate to because it is not something that is done in our culture. It's not socially acceptable like circ is. Hopefully they'll be considered the same some day.
post #162 of 287
I would certainly hope that people wouldn't base friendships solely on whether their aquaintances circ'd or not - yes, it is a subject that many people feel very strongly about, and well should, but I am just as passionate about breastfeeindg vs formula feeding, but I would never go so far as to not be friends with a woman ONLY because she formula feeds, either out of necessity or ignorance; I would have to take so many other things into consideration... but I have a whole lot of room in my heart for forgiveness..

to err is human, forgive divine.
post #163 of 287
We're not talking about basing new friendships but about continuing existing friendships.

Would you still remain friends with someone who circed even knowing that it's not necessary?

I wouldn't, any more than I would remain friends with someone who beats her kids with a belt even after learning that there are other, gentler ways to discipline.

I just can't be friends with an informed child abuser.

And no, I don't think that makes me a better person than anyone else - but neither do I think that "less judgmental" people are superior either. There's a big premium placed on non-judgmentalism these days but I don't believe in cultural relativism and I don't believe in turning a blind eye and a dumb mouth to child abuse.
post #164 of 287
We did stay friends with a couple that circ. We were both pregnant at the same time. We were against circ, mostly because we are from Europe, my DH got goosebumps just thinking about circ. We didn't really research it because we would not do it anyway. Our American friends are jews and the bris was a big family event, they knew we would never circ, but we didn't discuss it more than that, it was just weird for us we had friends that circ (we never met people that circ, it is very uncommon in Europe). It did not occur to me to try to change their mind about it. It would probably have been different if they did it not for religious reasons.

Carma
post #165 of 287
In a way I have less of a problem with INFORMED people choosing to circ. If they are informed and still feel it's the best at least they're making an informed decision. I have more of a problem with people who just do it without even researching it because they're too lazy or don't care. I'm not saying I respect those that circ and I definitely don't agree with it, but like I said, I would not end a friendship over it.

And it was brought up earlier what kind of parent would circ. I have a close friend who is a great mom. Two actually. They both circ'd. Both are breastfeeding moms. Both extended nursers and one even tandem nursing. Both co-sleep, don't spank, one does not immunize, both practice attachment parenting for the most part. Both great moms who circ'd their children.
post #166 of 287
I have 12 year old and 7 year old sons, they are both circumcised and I deeply regret this decision. I thought I was making the best decision with the information I was given. Unfortunately, I had no one in my life who offered alternatives to the mainstream thought process. They are also vaccinated and thankfully okay. My daughter on the other hand if she had been a boy would have remained intact and is not vaccinated. I did breastfeed, cloth dipaer and co-sleep with all of them instinctively. Thankfully, I have gained education and now help spread the truth about the medical myths behind circumcision. I was at a Fairie Festival this weekend with my non-profit organization and had the "What does this card have to do with your penis" out and many people stopped and intitiated conversations about why they chose to circ or not to circ. Two teenage boys actually told me they were uncirced. My son was like can you get the penis card off the table already. As parents most of us try to make the best decisions we are able to with the information we have at hand. I find shunning someone with a different approach ensures that person will never be educated and had it not been for friends of mine that took the time to inform and empower me I may never have thought to look beyond what the majority of people around me were doing. Will you still be my friend?
post #167 of 287
Closing this thread for review.
post #168 of 287
I am re-opening this discussion after cleaning it up.

As always, please be respectful in your postings!

Thanks
post #169 of 287
Would I be friends with someone who circ'd their sons? Yes.
Would I be friends with someone who fed their kids formula? Sure.

I don't get rid of friends just because they don't believe as I believe.
I would give my opinion on the subject and then drop it.
I try not to push my beliefs on others unless they want to be educated.
post #170 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerafinasMommy
Would I be friends with someone who circ'd their sons? Yes.
Would I be friends with someone who fed their kids formula? Sure.

I don't get rid of friends just because they don't believe as I believe.
I would give my opinion on the subject and then drop it.
I try not to push my beliefs on others unless they want to be educated.
Me too..

Everyone is different..Not everyone has the same education/circumstances.
Its not my place to judge.
post #171 of 287
It is very much my place to judge. How else does one choose a friend than by judging their commonalities and differences against one's own. This must be why ALL my friends currently have intact sons who were breastfed.

I could not stay friends with someone who would abuse their child. It is not "just an opinion." It is a common ethical stance throughout our society that babies should not be brutalized (except in this one way?)

There is no way I would remain friends with anyone that intentionally hurts a baby. Either by having their fingernails ripped from their beds because "its sooo much cleaner, there's no way he would keep them clean anyway", cutting off a toe "to look like daddy; who, of course, had to have one removed because it was infected as a teenager and remembers the pain..." or because they just looove the way a one-eared man looks and they would "never want to be with a two eared guy eeeewww!"

I cannot change a friend who's son has already been mutilated, but I will not stay friends with someone who has the information (which I always share) and still has the most sensitive part of their baby's genitals ripped away FOR any non-life threatening reason! but how many babies get penis frostbite? )
post #172 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadkitty
It is very much my place to judge. How else does one choose a friend than by judging their commonalities and differences against one's own. This must be why ALL my friends currently have intact sons who were breastfed.

I could not stay friends with someone who would abuse their child. It is not "just an opinion." It is a common ethical stance throughout our society that babies should not be brutalized (except in this one way?)

There is no way I would remain friends with anyone that intentionally hurts a baby. Either by having their fingernails ripped from their beds because "its sooo much cleaner, there's no way he would keep them clean anyway", cutting off a toe "to look like daddy; who, of course, had to have one removed because it was infected as a teenager and remembers the pain..." or because they just looove the way a one-eared man looks and they would "never want to be with a two eared guy eeeewww!"

I cannot change a friend who's son has already been mutilated, but I will not stay friends with someone who has the information (which I always share) and still has the most sensitive part of their baby's genitals ripped away FOR any non-life threatening reason! but how many babies get penis frostbite? )
:

I'm non-judgemental about almost everything. Until it hurts someone else. Add to that hurting someone else who is a newborn baby, or otherwise unable to speak for him/herself then I definitely judge.

I would not be friends with anyone who raped their children either. Should I base my friendship on the fact that they raped their children? Absolutely. Even if I agreed with them about EVERYTHING ELSE, I would stop being friends with them as soon as I found out about them abusing their children in that way. Informed circing for non-medical/religious reasons is equal to rape in my book. For ignorance or religion (I am in no way equating the two) I would make a case-by-case decision - and especially if I didn't know the person when their son was circ'd then I would probably remain friends.

It's the blatant "I know it's bad and there are no reasons for it (except cosmetic), but I want to so I'll do it anyway" thing that really gets my goat. I wish they would outlaw it already...

love and peace.
post #173 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by frolick16
I have 12 year old and 7 year old sons, they are both circumcised and I deeply regret this decision. I thought I was making the best decision with the information I was given. Unfortunately, I had no one in my life who offered alternatives to the mainstream thought process. They are also vaccinated and thankfully okay. My daughter on the other hand if she had been a boy would have remained intact and is not vaccinated. I did breastfeed, cloth dipaer and co-sleep with all of them instinctively. Thankfully, I have gained education and now help spread the truth about the medical myths behind circumcision. I was at a Fairie Festival this weekend with my non-profit organization and had the "What does this card have to do with your penis" out and many people stopped and intitiated conversations about why they chose to circ or not to circ. Two teenage boys actually told me they were uncirced. My son was like can you get the penis card off the table already. As parents most of us try to make the best decisions we are able to with the information we have at hand. I find shunning someone with a different approach ensures that person will never be educated and had it not been for friends of mine that took the time to inform and empower me I may never have thought to look beyond what the majority of people around me were doing. Will you still be my friend?
See the difference between this and what I and most other people (I'd wager) are talking about is that you didn't know better and you weren't informed. We're talking about people who KNOW better and who ARE and informed and still do it.
post #174 of 287
I'm friends with quite a few moms of circ'd babies, I don't see it as something to base a friendship off of if you just agree to disagree on it.
post #175 of 287
I do my best not to bring it up with other moms of boys for this reason - it would be hard to be friends with someone who was pro-circ. I also do my best not to see into baby boys diapers. It's just very distressing for me to see little circ'd boys.

I don't have any pregnant friends that would circ their kids. But if I was friends with someone and she knew the truth and circ'd anyway I would find it very difficult to impossible to stay friends. I think we would just drift apart as I would be unable to feel real close to someone who had so little in common with me.

Laura
post #176 of 287
My xh's girlfriend circed her boys. She is the primary caregiver to my son when he is there, and we have discussed his intactness and her 2 sons circs. Although I disagree with circ regardless (still not sure about religion, but I do accept all), I am content that she made sure that not only had anesthesia (general) but she was there in scrubs (as she put it) to make sure all was well.

Oh, and the funny thing (oldest 13, youngest about 5) people kept telling her "ya know they do that w/o anesthesia."

But I would say under this circumstance, I would definitely be friends with the person. She cared enough that they wouldn't feel pain. And although I don't agree with it, she did what she thought was best and was a mama bear. (We need a mama bear smiley hehe) But I doubt I could be friends with someone who had all info and still did it.
post #177 of 287
I have trouble faulting mainstream friends for listening to their doctors. Not everone is on the net and some people's research is asking a doctor. Its hard to take an opinion from a friend if you have no reason to think your doctors are lying to you. I would have more trouble staying friend's with someone who I knew circ'd because of his or her own personal preference for circed, or to look like daddy.

But with doctor's telling people there are medical benefits and its cleaner I think most mom's are circing for waht they feel are the right reasons. I blame doctors for repeating the lies.
post #178 of 287
Both of my sisters circ'd their sons & it really killed me. My three boys are intact, and I could not understand how they could do it.

Once they did it though - what then? They were my sisters. Every time I think about it though, it makes me sick to my stomach.

One of my sisters has a boy just the same age as my oldest son, and once when they were babies we had them playing naked together on the floor......and I couldn't help comparing their penis's. My son had this gorgeous, beautiful long penis in all it's full glory.....and hers had this tiny, short little stub of a thing & it really looked awful. I wondered what my sister thought as they played there together.

Neither of them are having more children, thank goodness.
post #179 of 287
I have a friend who says he will circumcise any boys he has, for religious reasons.

Thankfully he is gay (and an Orthodox Jew would you believe? I found it odd he chose to challenge tradition so strongly in that sense but was so meek when it came to MGM), let us hope that he ever chooses to adopt he picks girls!
post #180 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp
Thankfully he is gay (and an Orthodox Jew would you believe? I found it odd he chose to challenge tradition so strongly in that sense but was so meek when it came to MGM) . . .
I don't think I understand what you're saying. That his being gay is challenging his religious tradition? He really didn't get a vote there, did he?
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