Everything Is Illuminated

[Alana]

Anyone else see this?? Dh and I watched it the other night, and for the first half laughed SO hard. I really enjoyed the movie.

[Attila the Honey]

I am about 1hr and 15 min through it and YES, dh and I laughed hysterically. We hadn't expected it to be so funny. I am really enjoying this movie so far, can't wait to finish it.

[EVC]

Loved it!

Dh (who is Ukrainian) was actually curious about what Americans thought of this film, specifically it's portrayal of Ukraine and Ukrainians. Any thoughts?

[Brisen]

I really enjoyed it. It was surprisingly sad for how funny the beginning was.

Did anyone watch the deleted scenes? Seemed like they shot a lot of "goofier" scenes but decided to make the movie more serious (but still funny).

Re: portrayal of Ukranians... I assumed they were overplaying the hype for all things American on the part of the teen/early 20s translator guy. I mean, *all* of the characters just seemed over-the-top, really quirky in one way or the other -- I wouldn't assume, in a movie like this, that they were trying to say that Ukranians (or Americans, in the case of the main character) were all quirky or whatever. But I'm not an American; I'm Canadian.

I'm now curious about what your dh thought about the movie's portrayal of the Ukraine and Ukrainians.

[Attila the Honey]

The most shocking part of the Ukraine to me (from that movie, I mean) was how Americanized it seemed - fast food restaurants, etc. Some of the scenes in this movie were breathtakingly beautiful, too.

I guess that yes, the Ukrainians were portrayed over the top but then again so was the one American, wouldn't you say? Those glasses, the big eyes, the odd habits.

I am confused because the main character also has the name of the author - was this based on fact at all?

I knew there would be some heavy stuff re. the nazis invading the shtetl (sp?) but I wasn't expecting the end with the grandfather at all.

I want to read the book now, has anyone read it? How does it compare?

[bunny's mama]

loved the movie.

i just finished the book and it was simply AMAZING. i'm jewish, so i was especially moved by both the book and the movie. although the movie changes some key parts of the book and cuts *a lot* out. the movie focuses just on alex's writing, but the book takes place after jonathan returns to the US. alex & jonathan are writing the book together. there are alex's parts of the book, joanathan's parts of the book (which were entirely cut from the film...jonathan's parts focus on the history of the shetl of Trachimbrod and also his grandmother's shetl Kolki, which was the next town over...you get much much more setail of the history and also what happened to the towns). there are also letters from alex to jonathan and vice versa.

attila, i believe it is a work of fiction, but based on the authors trip to ukraine to find his family roots there (the trip was real, but the details of the relationships were fiction). the town of Trachimbrod was very real, over 1,200 jews were killed there in *one day* when the nazi's came.

get the book...it moved me to tears in many parts and reminded me so much of my grandparents and great grandparents.

[EVC]

I'm now curious about what your dh thought about the movie's portrayal of the Ukraine and Ukrainians.

He loved the characters and thought they were hysterical--but they are "type" characters, a little over the top, although some of their mannerisms and quirks are pretty typical of some people. Dh just gets excited when people know ANYTHING about Ukraine. His proudest moment in the States (he's been here since December) was when the UPS guy asked him where he was from and, upon hearing the answer, said "Oh, Klitchko!" and gave him a thumbs up. He was talking about that for DAYS. So he loves that there's a movie set in Ukraine, but thought that Americans wouldn't get it.

The most shocking part of the Ukraine to me (from that movie, I mean) was how Americanized it seemed - fast food restaurants, etc

Well, Odessa is pretty Westernized. And there are some people like Alex--you'd be surprised how popular breakdancing is

[bunny's mama]

one of the things in the book that your dh might find funny (i did) was that alex asks jonathan why he is constantly referring to the country as "The Ukraine." i have found that american i know (myself included for many years) do call it that. maybe because we are in The united states?

the part (this was in the movie) where jonathan says that the jews actually thought (in the beginning) that the nazis might treat them better than the ukrainians had, and alex didn't want to believe this. he had been taught to believe that ukrainians were the "good guys" and had saved their jewish neighbors. when the reality is that there were pogroms (killings, looting, general mayhem) by ukrainians (and also russians earlier) at least since the 1700s.

i wonder what is taught in ukrainian schools regarding this part of their history?

OT: EVC: where is your dh from? different parts of my family immigrated to the US from Shargorod (Vinnitsia region), Gaisin (formerly part of Kamenetz-Podolsk region) and Polonnoye (Volyn region).

[EVC]

one of the things in the book that your dh might find funny (i did) was that alex asks jonathan why he is constantly referring to the country as "The Ukraine." i have found that american i know (myself included for many years) do call it that. maybe because we are in The united states?

Well, it was called THE Ukraine until (I think) 1991, then it became Ukraine. A similar thing happened in Russian, where the preposition used with Ukraine used to be "na" and now it is "v" (although you will still hear many Russian speakers use "na"). So it's just the "old" way to call it

the part (this was in the movie) where jonathan says that the jews actually thought (in the beginning) that the nazis might treat them better than the ukrainians had, and alex didn't want to believe this. he had been taught to believe that ukrainians were the "good guys" and had saved their jewish neighbors. when the reality is that there were pogroms (killings, looting, general mayhem) by ukrainians (and also russians earlier) at least since the 1700s.

i wonder what is taught in ukrainian schools regarding this part of their history?

Well, during Soviet times of course they were taught that the Red Army were the great liberators/saviors etc of the world from facism. Now it is more controversial. The thing is, Ukraine was actually quite divided during WWII with some siding with the Soviet Union and some fighting for an independent Ukrainian state. The latter did cooperate with the Nazis to some extent and were later vilified for it. Now with independence, there is some feeling that they were really the "good guys" who had fought against the Soviet/Russian "bad guys." Although they did collaborate with the Nazis to some degree, they weren't really pro-Germany, they were more just anti-Russian/Soviet.

Somehow Ukrainians always manage to be portrayed as the "good guys" though: everything bad is now blamed on the Russians. Same with the Famine, for instance. Yes, it was caused by the Soviet government, Stalin's policy, etc. but some people blame Russians in general, although on the ground it was carried out almost entirely by Ukrainians. So it gets tricky finding the line between Soviet, Russian, and Ukrainian and people often manipulate that to the advantage of their political agenda.

But there were some Jews that thought Germany might be better than Russia --there really wasn't much of a Ukraine to speak of at that point despite some failed attempts to establish one. There was the so-called Hetmanate at the beginning of the century and, yes, Cossacks are notorious for anti-Semitism and xenophobia in general (and they carried out many of the pogroms), so that might have been part of it, but any real remants of Cossackdom had been crushed by the Soviet government prior to WWII (despite the so-called Cossack army divisions which, by the way, even the Nazi army had at one point!). At any rate, it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils. And really, between Stalin and Hitler, that's a very close call, whether you're Jewish or not, and especially if you're a Ukrainian just coming off an artificial famine during which upwards of 10 million people had perished in the course of about a year. Just about anything's got to look better than that.

And some Ukrainians did like the Germans. My dh's grandmother lived in occupied territory and she loved the Germans. She said they were always kind and polite to people in the village. The Russians who came in were rude, dirty, and stole things. She was quite disappointed when Germany lost the war. But then she wasn't Jewish....

As for what was taught in school, during Soviet times that the Red Army freed everyone from the evils of fascism and that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, so they were among the good guys. Now it is taught that Ukraine was divided and often they themselves are portrayed as victims of Russia/the Soviet Union. So still they come out as good guys

where is your dh from?

Kiev.

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by EVC

Dh just gets excited when people know ANYTHING about Ukraine.

Well, I met a friend in uni who was from Ukraine... she liked to eat jam on pasta and I seem to recall her saying it was normal at home. If this is a Ukraine thing and not just something her family did, you can tell you dh I know about it

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by EVC

Well, it was called THE Ukraine until (I think) 1991, then it became Ukraine.

Ah, I didn't know this. It sounds funny to me to just call it Ukraine -- my brain wants to say "Ukrainia" for some reason.

Originally Posted by EVC

...the Famine ... an artificial famine during which upwards of 10 million people had perished in the course of about a year.

Wow. I've never heard of this. That is just shocking. I'm really woefully underinformed about the world wars... we studied them in one year in school, but it was about Canada's part in the wars, and we had to cover everything in the 20th century that year, so we didn't delve too deeply.

[EVC]

Wow. I've never heard of this. That is just shocking.

Yeah, it is shocking. The extent of the losses have only fairly recently come to light and most current estimates are between 7 and 10 million people between the years 1932 and 1933. When the archives were finally opened several years ago, it also came to light that Stalin had ordered the famine as a systematic attemp to kill of the Ukrainian population (other nationalities that he didn't like, he just deported en masse--like the Chechens, for example--but there were simply too many Ukrainians to load onto a train, so he decided to starve them all to death). There is a great book on the subject if you're interested called "Harvest of Sorrow" by Robert Conquest. Here is the description:

The Harvest of Sorrow is the first full history of one of the most horrendous human tragedies of the 20th century. Between 1929 and 1932 the Soviet Communist Party struck a double blow at the Russian peasantry: dekulakization, the dispossession and deportation of millions of peasant families,
and collectivization, the abolition of private ownership of land and the concentration of the remaining peasants in party-controlled "collective" farms. This was followed in 1932-33 by a "terror-famine," inflicted by the State on the collectivized peasants of the Ukraine and certain other areas by
setting impossibly high grain quotas, removing every other source of food, and preventing help from outside--even from other areas of the Soviet Union--from reaching the starving populace. The death toll resulting from the actions described in this book was an estimated 14.5 million--more than the
total number of deaths for all countries in World War I.
Ambitious, meticulously researched, and lucidly written, The Harvest of Sorrow is a deeply moving testament to those who died, and will register in the Western consciousness a sense of the dark side of this century's history.

[mata]

Originally Posted by EVC

Loved it!

Dh (who is Ukrainian) was actually curious about what Americans thought of this film, specifically it's portrayal of Ukraine and Ukrainians. Any thoughts?

oh, my Polish husband and I just finished watching it and I had to find this thread to resurrect it. Absolutely loved Liev's treatment, with Alex as the narrator. LOVED him! The whole obsession with the west, the adidas track suit, kongol caps, etc. etc. was so spot on eastern European .

To answer the question, I always think of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and Newman are playing War on the subway and Kramer says the Ukraine is weak, and a man from the Ukraine hears them and goes ballistic. Seriously, as a Polish American, I feel as though Ukrainians are kindred spirits-we have similar aspirations, histories filled with pain and strife, character defects that surface from that, etc. etc.

I lost it during the grandfather's bathtub scene. I just think of how much that generation went through and how damaged they were-absolutely heartbreaking to me. Wasn't the elderly actress (starts with an L, her name escapes me) who played Augustina's sister so lovely?

[Aura_Kitten]

OMG i JUST saw this tonight. i LOVE it. it immediately joined my list of top favorite movies.

absolutely awesome.