Indiana Religious Exemption?

[Persephone]

So, I was stupid and took dd in to a new doc (one assigned to us by our insurance) for something. They asked if her shots were up to date. I said we weren't vaxing at this time. The next appt with the doc (a follow up) she said that she couldn't see us if we weren't vaxing. I told her I was worried about things like formaldehyde and mercury being injected directly into the bloodstream of someone so young. She told me that my child could die from measels or meningitis, and that not vaxing was stupid. (But she of course thought we were great parents, and she respected us.) I told her we wanted to wait til she was older, maybe 5 or so. (After researching more, I don't want her vaxed at all.) She then asked if we wanted to discuss this more. I told her that we could talk about it more if she wanted, but she prolly wasn't going to change my mind. She then asked me to sign an AMA form with quotes from me about waiting, and my reasons, and not changing my mind before she walked us to the door. I signed it, and now I wish I hadn't. Then she notified our insurance of our terminating the "mutually beneficial relationship", stating vaccinations at the cause of contention. We got a call from a "advocate" about resolving our differences with the other doc (and my husband took this call, so I'm not sure how the conversation went exactly), and we said that it was over vaxes, and that we didn't want to and why, and she asked if we had another doc in mind. We did, a vax friendly one, and we are now signed on with him. We haven't gone to see him yet though. DD hasn't missed a WBV yet. Anyway, yesterday I got a certified letter from the old doc that basically stated that she had terminated our relationship, because of vaxing, she didn't agree with us, and had quotes in there from me of "waiting til dd is 5" and "you aren't going to change my mind". And that said we would be contacted by someone from Medicaid to continue the vax discussion. The letter was CCed to our insurance and our caseworker. So, now I'm freaking out that someone is going to call CPS on us, and they'll take away dd. In our state, you can have a religious exemption. I don't know how well it would work after all we've been through, though. Anyway, I want to get one written up ASAP. (All we have to do in IN is write one, sign it by both parents and present it to whoever school or doc, whoever would order a vax) Should I just write "we are spritually opposed to vaxes" or should I give reasons? (I can think of several- we are Christian). I want to make sure that they don't take dd, and that they can't order us to vax her too. Someone please help me!

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by Persephone

I want to make sure that they don't take dd, and that they can't order us to vax her too. Someone please help me!

They can't take your daughter away and they can't court order you to vax - no judge will sign an order like that (even the most CPS happy states). Your child is not medically neglected and is also not in any imminent danger. Parents do not lose custody of their children for refusing to vax when the child is not in imminent danger.

Immunizations are required for school entry and as you know you can exempt your child from those school entry requirements.

I'll post some Indiana CPS information for you shortly in order to ease your mind.

[LongIsland]

continued . . .

From the Indiana Dept. of Health: http://www.in.gov/isdh/programs/immu...eYourChild.pdf

From the What If You Don't Immunize Your Child pamphlet:

We strongly encourage you to immunize your child, but ultimately the decision is yours. Please discuss any concerns you have with a trusted health care provider or call the immunization coordinator at your local or state health
department.

[LongIsland]

Here's a link to the Indiana DOH's page on religious exemption for school entry: http://www.in.gov/isdh/programs/immu...licy_exemp.htm

[Persephone]

Thanks. I do feel better. I've been reading the vax forums here for a few days, and your name stands out as someone who *knows* the system and vaxing really well. I plan on homeschooling, so do I really need to file anything? Should I have something on hand in case this doc does try to make things harder on us?

(Oh yeah, I read that pdf file, and man, talk about some scaremongering! Gr, that makes me so mad!)

[eloquence]

What is medical neglect. Can not taking your child to well-child visits be twisted into medical neglect?

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by eloquence

What is medical neglect. Can not taking your child to well-child visits be twisted into medical neglect?

It's not so much well visits alone, but as a whole as it relates to medical treatment.

Let's say a child constantly sick, losing weight, etc. and is in "need" of medical treatment for diabetes for instance. If the parent refuses to treat the child, it may be considered medical neglect. On the flip side, if the parent is unable to afford medical treatment, that is not typically considered medical neglect. Or if the parent religiously opposes medical treatment, it is not typically considered medical neglect and some states do have laws in place to protect parents who religiously oppose medical treatment.

I've read many CPS guidelines from various states and each one indicates that a child must be in imminent danger in order for the parent to be actually charged with medical neglect.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by eloquence

What is medical neglect. Can not taking your child to well-child visits be twisted into medical neglect?

It's not so much well visits alone, but as a whole as it relates to medical treatment.

Let's say a child constantly sick, losing weight, etc. and is in "need" of medical treatment for diabetes for instance . . . if the parent refuses to treat the child, it may be considered medical neglect. On the flip side, if the parent is unable to afford medical treatment, that is not typically considered medical neglect. Or if the parent religiously opposes medical treatment, it is not typically considered medical neglect and some states do have laws in place to protect parents who religiously oppose medical treatment.

I've read many CPS guidelines from various states and each one indicates that a child must be in imminent danger in order for the parent to be actually charged with medical neglect.

I'll post back with the federal definition of medical neglect.

[LongIsland]

The federal definition of neglect is usually defined in terms of "deprivation of adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care." However, state laws will vary. As an example, here's are the definitions of neglect in California, along with exceptions to the definitions.


Neglect Penal Code § 11165.2

Neglect means the negligent treatment or the maltreatment of a child by a person responsible for the child’s welfare under circumstances indicating harm or threatened harm to the child’s health or welfare. The term includes both acts and omissions on the part of the responsible person.

Severe neglect means the negligent failure of a person having the care or custody of a child to protect the child from severe malnutrition or medically diagnosed nonorganic failure to thrive. Severe neglect also means those situations of neglect where any person having the care or custody of a child willfully causes or permits the person or health of the child to be placed in a situation such that his or her person or health is endangered, including the intentional failure to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care.

General neglect means the negligent failure of a person having the care or custody of a child to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision where no physical injury to the child has occurred.


Exceptions Penal Code §§ 11165.2; 11165.6

• A child not receiving specific medical treatment for religious reasons is not considered neglected.

• Informed and appropriate medical decisions made by a parent, after consultation with a physician, do not constitute neglect.

• Child abuse or neglect does not include a mutual affray between minors.

[bobandjess99]

DON'T WORRY

CPS can not/will not do anything.....
more likely, they will LAUGH at whoever tries to "report" it....

IN has solid religious exemptions...simply do not waver, if asked...they can not do anything.

[Persephone]

Someone on another board that I also posted this on suggested that I write a letter explaining our reasons, and about how we have another doc who is willing to work with us, etc. And CC it to all the same people she did. Does this sound like a good idea? I think it sounds like it's inviting more trouble.

[LongIsland]

I forgot to put in the Indiana statutes:


Neglect §§ 31-34-1-1; 31-34-1-9; 31-34-1-10 ; 31-34-1-11
A child is a child in need of services if before the child becomes 18 years of age:

• The child’s physical or mental condition is seriously impaired or seriously endangered as a result of the inability, refusal, or neglect of the child’s parent, guardian, or custodian to supply the child with necessary food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, or supervision.
• The child is born with fetal alcohol syndrome, or any amount, including a trace amount, of a controlled substance or a legend drug in the child’s body.
• The child has an injury, abnormal physical or psychological development, or is at a substantial risk of a life threatening condition that arises or is substantially aggravated because the child’s mother used alcohol, a controlled substance, or a legend drug during pregnancy.

A child in need of services includes a child with a disability who is deprived of nutrition that is necessary to sustain life or is deprived of medical or surgical intervention that is necessary to remedy or ameliorate a life threatening medical condition, if the nutrition, medical, or surgical intervention is generally provided to similarly situated children with or without disabilities.



Exceptions §§ 31-34-1-12; 31-34-1-14; 31-34-1-15 A child is not a child in need of services if:

• The presence of a controlled substance was from a valid medical prescription.
• A parent fails to provide specific medical treatment for a child because of legitimate and genuine religious beliefs. This presumption does not do any of the following:
o Prevent a court from ordering medical services when the health of the child requires it
o Apply to situations in which the child’s life or health is in serious danger


This chapter does not limit:

• The right of the parent to use reasonable corporal punishment to discipline the child
• The lawful practice or teaching of religious beliefs

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by Persephone

Someone on another board that I also posted this on suggested that I write a letter explaining our reasons, and about how we have another doc who is willing to work with us, etc. And CC it to all the same people she did. Does this sound like a good idea? I think it sounds like it's inviting more trouble.

I don't think it's necessary. Your ped is just making sure there's a "paper trail" in order to cover is own arse with the insurance company in case you made a complaint.