Homebirth and Triplets - Page 2

[alegna]

Originally Posted by MRDCatLvr

Should rephrase that first sentence. I figured they could come out vaginally but never thought it was "allowed" by the medical establishment.

So the trick is to avoid the medical establishment

-Angela

[alegna]

Originally Posted by maxmama

But by definition a pregnancy with higher-order multiples is not a normal pregnancy, regardless of how healthy the woman is, and I'm in favor of OB-MW comanagement for high-risk pregnancy (which multiple births are).

I would opt to not do an ultrasound to confirm. Do you think twins should be managed by an OB as well?

-Angela

[Belle]

Wow I had no idea that triplets could even be born vaginally. That is great. I was always afraid of getting pg with twins because of the very high likelyhood have having a section with triplets it never occured to me that it was even possible to have a vag birth. Makes me happy to know that the possibilty is out there.

Should rephrase that first sentence. I figured they could come out vaginally but never thought it was "allowed" by the medical establishment.

Actually 80% of triplets are born by cesarean. I highly doubt the other 20% are born at home. There must be some OBs that "allow" it.

But by definition a pregnancy with higher-order multiples is not a normal pregnancy, regardless of how healthy the woman is, and I'm in favor of OB-MW comanagement for high-risk pregnancy (which multiple births are).

What would an OB have done that MWs and her FP couldn't? Probably restricted her diet, stressed her out about the abnormality of her pregnancy, She would have been subjected to numerous tests and procedures that clearly she didn't want. And when you look for problems so much you're going to find them. The book where I read the story said that the SOP of the OBs in her area was to do a C/S at 38 weeks for twins. And to top it all off, she was a VBAC. There is no way she would have been "allowed" to have a vaginal birth.

(As a side note I really don't like that women need to ask permission from their doctors to use their own vagina. )

It sounds like her MWs and her FP were very cautious because they thought they were twins. She was monitored more than a singleton pregnancy would have been.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Belle

(As a side note I really don't like that women need to ask permission from their doctors to use their own vagina. )

This is a wonderful quote- may I borrow it sometime?

-Angela

[JesseMomme]

Originally Posted by maxmama

But by definition a pregnancy with higher-order multiples is not a normal pregnancy, regardless of how healthy the woman is, and I'm in favor of OB-MW comanagement for high-risk pregnancy (which multiple births are).

But why? Why is it dangerous? that was my original question. I guess I'll have to go digging for my own answer

[Belle]

This is a wonderful quote- may I borrow it sometime?

-Angela

Sure but I can't take credit for it. I read it somewhere else. I can't remember where.

[CryPixie83]

Originally Posted by JesseMomme

But why? Why is it dangerous? that was my original question. I guess I'll have to go digging for my own answer

Honestly, I think it's just the mindset. "this pregnancy isn't "normal" so it must be dangerous" Kind common in our medically minded society.

[mimid]

Originally Posted by Belle

Probably restricted her diet, stressed her out about the abnormality of her pregnancy, She would have been subjected to numerous tests and procedures that clearly she didn't want.

For me, I never had to deal with any sort of restrictions other than 10 days with 2 hours of rest each day to see if my cervix was shortening because of the weight of the girls or because of pre-term labor approaching. I never had any dietary restrictions other than eating a lot of iron-rich foods at the end and taking my vits. I also didn't feel any sort of pressure to have tests that I didn't want. When they would mention something, dh and I would talk about it and research it and then make our choice. I think the most pressure we got was from the peri's office about refusing genetic testing for cp even though dh's brother has it. She asked 3 times. We were never even asked if we wanted to terminate a babe and "just" have twins. There were more u/s than I would have preferred, but we had some size issues that needed to be watched to amke sure that they were all fine and I had had some early bleeding that they were watching to make sure that it was over and staying over. Considering that the NICU nurses and the neonatologist were shocked that I went 34 weeks and none of the girls had to be on anything other than an ng tube and bili lights, I believe what I did was the best for us. That, is all that you can hope for, right?

[The Lucky One]

So the woman had had a previous incision to her uterus and then carried 20+ lbs of baby. Insane if you ask me. There, I said it. She was lucky her uterus didn't rupture.

But there's no point in trying to point out risks of higher order multiples to those who believe that a human body is capable of anything if just given the chance and allowed to be left alone.

Ha.

[Belle]

Miriam, I'm glad your care providers respected your wishes for the most part. Its wonderful that your girls are healthy and it sounds like you were given lots of respect from your peris. Its great that they didn't restict your diet too. Not every woman is going to experience that though and it sounds as if she already knew what the local birth climate was so chose not to go through with it.

So the woman had had a previous incision to her uterus and then carried 20+ lbs of baby. Insane if you ask me. There, I said it. She was lucky her uterus didn't rupture.

That's a risk that she chose to take. With a Peri/OB she would have had no choice.

Choice A. Birth twins at home, chance possible rupture, greater chance of vaginal birth, have two MWs and FP Doctor present for the birth. Babies go to 41 weeks and are fully cooked. Her health is monitored frequently to make sure that she isn't developing Pre-E.

Choice B. Birth with Peris/OB, Guarenteed Cesarean. Great risk of complications from C/S. Greater risk of prematurity. Has to recover from c/s while trying to care for triplets and toddler.

[bamamom]

I really do believe my body is capable of doing almost anything!! And that about 99.9% of the time, if we dont interfere, our body will perform perfectly!!! Yes, there are those rare cases of things like a sudden placental abruption, or a severe cord prolapse, which require medical intervention to save a baby. But.........in a non intervened, non "messed with" home birth, or birth center setting, where no pitocin has been given, etc, those things are very very unlikely to happen..

That is how my brain works...I know many; many many women who have been csec'd for CPD (Cephalo pelvic disproportion), baby too big to fit out the pelvis. Then get educated, find out how to labor in an active way, and go on to birth babies as much as THREE pounds bigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also know that in an assissted setting, meaning, you have a well trained midwife on the scene to help keep an eye out, they are with you always. They see things coming. My midwife has been doing it for almost 30 yrs now, and I can tell you that she says in all these years, and THOUSANDS of births, sudden emergencies are extremely rare. Most things are slow to arise, and there is time to get to the hospital in time to prevent any danger to mom or baby.

So...I love the quote about asking a drs permission to use my own vagina... I choose the safest thing for my body, and that is to use non interventionist care for labor and delivery, with the option of medical care to save mine or my baby's life if the need arises.

this woman wasn't foolish for having a triplet homebirth, she was SMART!! and I would have done no different. She obviously received excellent care, because those babies were full sized, and she obviously didn't die, so there you go.

Our bodies are miraculous!!!!!!!!!

[singleton+twins]

my opinon

homebirthing triplets can be dangerous because of cord entanglement. It also has the potential problem of id twins sharing a placenta. Yes people have done it, but that doesn't make it safe, nor does the tiny % of healthy homebirths of multiples negate the negative stats of issues that arose.

Multiples can be higher risk but not necessarily high risk. I had twins and it was a great pg. I delivered 6lbs baby girls at 38+ weeks. My baby A was born after 40 minutes of pushing but baby B refused to engage in the birthing canal. If at home I would have had NO idea that baby B's heart tones had dropped drastically or that the cord was wrapped around her body so tightly that she had a indentation on her shoulder. IF I would have let nature take it's course baby B could have had serious injury or died. Twins can have complications. If twins share a placenta you ARE way higher risk of TTTS and other issues. You also have the issue of twice the baby weigh on your cervix encouraging it to dilate. The more babies inside the more complicated it becomes. Elizabeth NObles book needs to be taken with a grain of salt...it is the exception NOT the norm. If the babies would have been injuried or died the story would not have been printed. To not be monitored by someone is negligent. It is sad when a person's personal beliefs superceed the welfare of their baby. Check out several iternet sites where the ladies are pg with multiples....it is very sad to see the complications that arise...unfortunately they are more the norm than Noble's "Polyanna" case.

I have seen ppl homebirth 8lb twins born at 40w2d. I have also seen twins lost at 26wks gestation because the mother didn't trust the "establishment" and refused medical monitoring.

[The Lucky One]

Of course it was her choice to make, and even though I think it was insane idea, I support her right to choose what she thinks is best. However, with any choice, I hope the chooser is well-prepared to face whatever the consequences of that choice be and accept full responsibility. I am glad that in this case all went well.

This:

And that about 99.9% of the time, if we dont interfere, our body will perform perfectly!!!

I totally disagree with, and imo, is just as dangerous a mentality as believing whole-heartedly in the medical establishment.

Can anyone here quote some stats on the survival during childbirth of higher order multiples before the age of standardized care? From what I know, the death rate for multiples/mothers of multiples 'back then' was fairly high.

[alegna]

singleton+twins- welcome to MDC! Glad you're here. BUT I have to say you are speaking from a place of clear ignorance and bias. Heart tones ARE usually monitored at homebirths.... homebirths are statistically SAFER for normal birth than hospitals. I have yet to see any study prove that twins are safer in the hospital.

-Angela

[Belle]

I love this lively conversation!

However, with any choice, I hope the chooser is well-prepared to face whatever the consequences of that choice be and accept full responsibility. I am glad that in this case all went well.

I'm sure she was prepared to accept responsibility. It's unfortunate that in this day and age if something goes wrong the doctor is chosen as the fall guy (lawsuits) and people can't just understand that bad things happen.

People keep saying that she wasn't monitored. They were checking FHRs during the birth. If something went wrong they could have gone to the hospital.

Can anyone here quote some stats on the survival during childbirth of higher order multiples before the age of standardized care? From what I know, the death rate for multiples/mothers of multiples 'back then' was fairly high.

But that would be comparing apples to oranges. There also wasn't a lot of prenatal care "back then". This woman did receive monitoring. I can't imagine that the results were great back then.

I have seen ppl homebirth 8lb twins born at 40w2d. I have also seen twins lost at 26wks gestation because the mother didn't trust the "establishment" and refused medical monitoring.

But would the medical establishment have been able to save twins born at 26 weeks?

[scatterbrainedmom]

Originally Posted by singleton+twins

If at home I would have had NO idea that baby B's heart tones had dropped drastically or that the cord was wrapped around her body so tightly that she had a indentation on her shoulder. IF I would have let nature take it's course baby B could have had serious injury or died. Twins can have complications. If twins share a placenta you ARE way higher risk of TTTS and other issues. You also have the issue of twice the baby weigh on your cervix encouraging it to dilate. The more babies inside the more complicated it becomes. Elizabeth NObles book needs to be taken with a grain of salt...it is the exception NOT the norm. If the babies would have been injuried or died the story would not have been printed. To not be monitored by someone is negligent. It is sad when a person's personal beliefs superceed the welfare of their baby. Check out several iternet sites where the ladies are pg with multiples....it is very sad to see the complications that arise...unfortunately they are more the norm than Noble's "Polyanna" case.

I have seen ppl homebirth 8lb twins born at 40w2d. I have also seen twins lost at 26wks gestation because the mother didn't trust the "establishment" and refused medical monitoring.

yes, you would have known about the fht. mw's monitor the babies heartbeat. I had fht checked every other contraction. so, by that they would conclude one of many thing could be causing it. maybe the cord and you would be transported.


please check the forum you are on. this is mothering, not babycenter :

[scatterbrainedmom]

Originally Posted by Belle

(As a side note I really don't like that women need to ask permission from their doctors to use their own vagina.

i'm a big fan of vagina usage

I LOVE that quote. I will have to remember it.

[boscopup]

Originally Posted by Belle

But would the medical establishment have been able to save twins born at 26 weeks?

Quite possibly, yes. Drugs can often stop PTL until babies get to a "safer" gestation. Also, birthing those babies in a hospital with a level 3 NICU can get them immediate care for their underdeveloped lungs (they inject a synthetic surfectant), plus help breathing, etc. A 24 weeker singleton has a 50% chance of living. I imagine that 26 week twins would have at least that high a chance, possibly higher if they're a good size for their gestation. They might be micropreemies, but they could be saved by modern medicine.

In the case of IC caused by multiple babies putting more pressure on the cervix, a cerclage can sometimes keep those babies in longer. But IC wouldn't be noticed until it's too late, without doing a vaginal u/s periodically.

Having had PPROM with a singleton and giving birth to a 29 weeker, I personally wouldn't attempt a twin/triplet pregnancy without seeing an OB at least. I might deliver twins out-of-hospital. I'd have to really research the safety of delivering triplets. As it is, I'm seeing an OB with this pregnancy just so I have some extra monitoring because I did have problems last time, and I was not seeing an OB last time. Yes, my body can birth a baby of whatever size it grows it to, but sometimes my body may decide to kick my baby out earlier than I'd like, for whatever reason. I know it's hard to believe until it happens to you though. Thankfully, I was still able to have a natural, vaginal birth with my 29 weeker.

[mimid]

Originally Posted by Belle

Choice B. Birth with Peris/OB, Guarenteed Cesarean. Great risk of complications from C/S. Greater risk of prematurity. Has to recover from c/s while trying to care for triplets and toddler.

This depends on the dr. and there have been vaginally delivered trips. It just seems to be less common probably because a lot of women don't researcha dn argue for it. For me, Both A&B were breech and C was transverse and they didn't seem to be going anywhere. As for the recovery...I still don't get why someone would voluntarily have a c/s. So I totally agree there.

[bamamom]

Originally Posted by alegna

singleton+twins- welcome to MDC! Glad you're here. BUT I have to say you are speaking from a place of clear ignorance and bias. Heart tones ARE usually monitored at homebirths.... homebirths are statistically SAFER for normal birth than hospitals. I have yet to see any study prove that twins are safer in the hospital.

-Angela

ITA!!! OF COURSE Babies are monitored at homebirths!!!! It shocks me to think that anyone would believe otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!