Modified time-out (I think) - is this GD or not? - Page 6

[PatchyMama]

The co-clean up... I never really gave my dd the choice. I always said "lets go get a towel and clean this up" she comes with me, gets the towel... she may not actually clean it up entirely but she will at least stay there while I do it or try to help. If she refuses I will usually sit her down next to where I am and tell her she may help me clean up or she may sit there until I am finished. She may not go play while I clean up the mess by myself. That has always worked for me. It is sometimes harder to get her to comply, but those days she is usually difficult in other ways so I think there is something going on and give her some slack.


Other than that, I am not sure what to tell you. ages 2 and 3 was really really hard for me, it was A LOT of work. I felt very much like I was constantly following her around and never got a break (my dh works very very very long days so I was very much the only caretaker 6 days out of the week). I remember breaking down and being frustrated at least once a week if not more. But that said... dd is now 5 and one of the sweetest, most helpful, and independent girls. She is still spirited and we still have our days, but its fewer and far between. She is very independent during the day and actually asks to get her own meals, be given more "jobs" etc.

So I dont really have any advice other than it does get better and I truly believe that putting the extra work in now, while frustrating and tiring, does pay off as they get older.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by PatchyMama

So I dont really have any advice other than it does get better and I truly believe that putting the extra work in now, while frustrating and tiring, does pay off as they get older.

: I know sometimes it feels like all I'm doing is thinking ahead of the game and putting out fires, but I really think that it's a mid shift that needs to occur. Little kids simply don't have reliable impulse control. That's just the way it is....so unless you're a parent who is routinely shaming or hitting your child to gain compliance by fear (which I'm not saying you are, i'mjust saying that's about teh only way I think it happens in younger children, or if you're blessed with a "Zen child"... ) I think it just needs to become part of your routine. She's unable to control her impulses, so you need to modify the situation or environment so it doesn't turn into a "thing". With DS, I know he's a runner too, so any time we're leaving somewhere, I go to him and take his hand. I just know it's gonna happen, so I don't bother gettgin upset about it.

I don't know if it was on this thread or another one that this was brought up before, but I'm not worried about him doing this when he's 5 or 7...he's been through many stages that he's outgrown, and I know he'll outgrow this one too. When things come up, I look at what it's telling me about his development and capabilities, and modify what I can. BUT, I still talk to and explain to him, so I'm not just lettign him run amok...I'm sorry your friend's child seems to not have received any guidance, that's one way GD gets a bad name, is when parents don't do anything at all - even the completely consensual mamas here come to mutually agreeable solutions, and I can't imagine any of them would be OK with being bitten hard enough to draw blood. I can't think of many things we just learn instantly - everything is on a curve...the point is that she will outgrow this, and with your guidance in appropriate ways, she will outgrow it to an acceptable way for your own family. But just because she is dumping cashews at 2.5 even though she knows she's not supposed to does not mean she will be doign the same thing at 8, so long as you're "there".

I guess I kind of look at this the same way I did about dishes (which sounds bizarre, but stay with me for a minute): I was gettign really aggravated that it seemed like I could NEVER get ahead on our dishes and always seemed to have a load waiting for me to be done. Then, I had a this *shocking* revelation: we eat 3 meals a day, plus snacks, every day. OF COURSE there's always goignto be dishes to do! SOunds so silly and simple in my mind, but once I got my head wrapped around the concept that I would be doing at least one load of dishes a day, I totally mellowed out and it didn't bother me anymore. Same thing with laundry - realizing that at least one load a day needs to be done for some reason eliminated the resentment and stress about it.

So, I think you might just need to come ot a realization that:
1. This is all TOTALLY normal for your daughter, developmentally, and that so long as you are giving her gentle guidance and consistent responses, she WILL grow out of all these various things, most of which are variations of impulse control, really.

2. Since you know that these things are happening, it's up to you to be in prevention mode as much as possible. I've found that prevention is a million times easier than 'correction'. SO when he was in a food flinging stage as a young toddler, we only gave him a couple bites at a time insteda of giving him the whole plate. Since I know right now he has an impulse to bolt when he sees neat stuff, if we're goign to or leaving some place, he holds my hand or is carried. It's as much about my sanity as anything. what's that saying? "An ounce of prevention......." I don't remember the rest. But for us, it's true.

I know it's hard to get out of the "she knows she shouldn't...." frame of mind, but seriously, until they're at least 3 (aside from that magical Zen child I mentioned), even if they "know" somehting and can tell you what they're supposed to or not supposed to do, that darn impulse control sometimes makes it impossible for them to follow through on their 'knowledge'. I also think this has to do with your concern that she seems to not realize your needs. I don't think 2.5s have a great sense of empathy either developmentally, and the best way to teach them empathy for you is to give them empathy for the stage that they are at. I firmly believe for the first 3 or 4 years, the onus is on the parent to modify things, and model the way they want their child to interact, and to present the expectation of the same respect, etc. for themselves (the parent), but to not necessarily expect it reliably because children aren't developmentally capable of it until they're a bit older - if you lay the groundwork though, when the age hits and it "clicks", then the payoff is huge.

So, as the PP said that I quoted, it's more frustrating and exhausting for us as parents now, but personally I'd rather have frustration and exhaustion with a 2.5 year old than a much older, stronger, developed 10-year-old, or God forbid a teenager.

Hope this helps.

[Yooper]

Oh boy can it be frustrating to parent a 2-3 yo! I know what you are feeling about the hill situation. My dd would do that. And I would resent having to go down and back up. I do not know the geography of the location the beach was in, but if it was at all safe, I would just keep an eye on dd from the top of the hill until she was ready to come up. I used to be the world's most impatient person, but in the last couple of years I have finally come to realize that 20 minutes is not a big deal. Unless I know I have dinner burning in the oven or someone waiting for me to pick them up, I will really just allow dd to get her dilly-dallies out. It is actually good for me to sometimes step back to see life from dd's eyes. If that hill with those rocks is so captivating for dd, I am probably missing out on something. And even if I am not in the mood to scale the hill again, I try to take a deep breath, sit down, keep an eye on dd, and enjoy the relaxing moment instead of making it into a stressful moment for both of us. And I know it seems almost impossible but when I allow her these moments, they come up MUCH less often. We rarely have trouble with leaving places. Dd does not turn it into a power struggle because she knows that if she truly does not want to leave someplace, I will do what I can to help her get what she wants. There is no need to test, or stretch the limits because she knows there really are no hard and fast limits.

I also know what you mean about the juice, nuts, cleaning up, and matter-of-fact announcements. My dd is a little older than yours. She does not drink juice so we are only dealing with water. I know that developmentally she can handle a regular cup. She uses one for meals, restaurants, and at her small table in the kitchen. However, right now the "rule" is that she has sippy cups in the rest of the house. She has not protested it yet. If she did, we would change it. But for now, we are all more comfortable with sippys. However, things do still spill. And I can never know for sure if it is accidental or on purpose. So I assume the best, even when dd seems almost happy when announcing it. I say the same thing every time. "Oops. XYZ spilled, let's clean it up". I never force or even ask her to help. It is implied in the "lets" but she soemtimes chooses to just watch. I do not sweat this. I do not allow myself to get upset. Cleaning up spilled stuff is part of parenting a preschooler. She often helps. Sometimes not. And most foten these days, she actually cleans it up without telling me. I sometimes do not even know something spilled until I find the evidence smeared on a kitchen towel. Despite the fact that I did not "teach" her to clean up her messes, she is getting it. We do not and have never surrounded the issue with shame, begging, or consequences. Yet, she still feels compelled to advance in this area. SO I would not get too worried about how things spill or how much she helps. She will get it. And probably faster if allowed to take the reigns on her own progress.

Developmental lapses are completely normal. I have never met a small child that did not do this. One day dd can get her own snacks out of the fridge but then requests that I do it for her a month later. I am sure there are all sorts of scientific reasons for this. I do not know what they are. But I do know it happens and I try to just roll with the punches. I like what a pp said about knowing that you have those dishes and that they will keep coming. I know that I will be cleaning up spills. Heck, I sometimes need to help dh clean up a mess. There is a good chance that I will be called upon to clean up juice when dd is 16 at some point. There is also a good chance that the 16 yo dd will want to linger for 10 more minutes at the fashion store. It is going to happen. All I can control is my reaction to it.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

As I am sure you are beginning to see, parenting this age child is a combination of always trying to be one step ahead and always being on your toes. And its hard, and exhausting, and sometimes you just want to sit down and join your kid in a long "I just don't want to" whine. Which is OK to do, by the way.

Given the rest of your life, I think that being one step ahead and trying to prevent as many problems as possible would make life easier and less stressful for you. As you said, you have needs too and this is one way to hlep yourself get what you need. So she CAN drink out of a regular cup. Doesn't mean it will do her any harm not to. If spilled juice stresses you out, then have her use a sippy. Or a cup with a straw and lid, if that seems less "babyish" to you. My 6 YO still uses lidded straw cups when away from the table. Its just easier. If spilled nuts makes YOU nuts, then be sure to put them down where she can't get them. And so on through the day. For the next week, track what stresses you out and figure out how to modify the environment. Yes, this takes work, but less than cleaning up / stressing out all day.

For cleaning up, definitely make it a "mommy & me" thing and have her help, but she's too little to expect to do it on her own. If she doesn't help, at least have her stay right with you while you clean.

If running away is a frequent thing, then she needs to hold your hand when you are out. If she won't, you wait until she will. Or you need to find a backpack or other carrier for her. Or decide that you are comfortable with a leash or something. I know that lots of people here don't like them, but sometimes I think they are a "lesser evil" than having either kid or mommy meltdowns all the time. Yesterday at Seaworld I saw a toddler backpack that looked like a monkey with a long tail, and mom held the other end of the tail. She said she got them (she had twins) at Target.

For the beach, if you were confident that she wouldn't go into the water and you could get to her if something happened, I would have waited at the top of the hill for her to come back. Waiting is sometimes a really good response.

And don't worry about her being a monster at 8. Maybe your friend's child would have been a difficult a child regardless of how he was parented. And remember that GENTLE discipline doesn't mean NO discipline. It means, among other things, that discipline and expecatations are appropriate and respectful of the chid's age. Yours is at an age where you can't do too much other than redirection and gentle consequences like helping clean what was spilled. As she gets older, consequences can be more meaningful, though not necessarily harsher. But you can cross that bridge when it comes!

Right now, take some time to think about the next couple of days and how you can change things to reduce the stress. Good luck.

[aira]

Weighing in late about the twiddling...

DS also bottle nurses and has to do what he calls "rubbing blanket tails". The tails are the edges of his lovey, and he must be rubbing them while drinking a baba and usually just for falling asleep.

He tells me he needs them, and he's not a kid to use that word for very much! I do think there is a strong drive for that, and finding another interesting texture besides "nipple" would help.

Gosh, after the years of pumping I've done, I think I'd hit the ceiling if anyone "twiddled" my nipples. They are super-sensitive. Heck I jump if my shirt rubs them.

[aira]

Yooper, 'nother great post! ITA!

[Ayala Eilon]

I would worry that she will have a negative relationship to sitting on couches...
Anyway, I have learned that everything can be handled without being punitive, and I hear that you wish not to be punitive. I have four children, and I got the most help from the book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves. On amazon, the book review says it all:
"Every parent would happily give up ever scolding, punishing or threatening if she only knew how to ensure that her toddler/child/teen would thrive and act responsibly without such painful measures. Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves is the answer to this universal wish. It is not about gentle ways to control a child, but about a way of being and of understanding a child so she/he can be the best of herself, not because she fears you, but because she wants to, of her own free will."
So, if I were you, I would study this book, and also Aldort's CD set Babies and Toddlers, to Tame or to Trust. It transformed our struggles into ease and peace.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Yooper

I do not know the geography of the location the beach was in, but if it was at all safe, I would just keep an eye on dd from the top of the hill until she was ready to come up. I used to be the world's most impatient person, but in the last couple of years I have finally come to realize that 20 minutes is not a big deal. Unless I know I have dinner burning in the oven or someone waiting for me to pick them up, I will really just allow dd to get her dilly-dallies out. It is actually good for me to sometimes step back to see life from dd's eyes. If that hill with those rocks is so captivating for dd, I am probably missing out on something.

You all sound so much more zen than I am. I feel like, when I want to go, I want to go! I'm hungry, or I'm tired, or I have somewhere I have to be, yk? Rarely does it work for me to just sit and wait til she is done. Again, what about me, here?

In the beach scenario, I had already waited for her to finish throwing rocks, and then it was time to go. And the thing with the hill was that it curved so if one of us hadn't followed her, we wouldn't have been able to see her at all, and that would have been dangerous.

I don't expect that she will be able to empathize and consider my needs and desires in our relationship - she is 2, and she is my child, I am the mama. But how do I ensure my needs get met, at least part of the time, or when it feels important? Diverting to her every time causes me to feel like I am being rendered invisible, sacrificing too much, yk?

And I know it seems almost impossible but when I allow her these moments, they come up MUCH less often. We rarely have trouble with leaving places. Dd does not turn it into a power struggle because she knows that if she truly does not want to leave someplace, I will do what I can to help her get what she wants. There is no need to test, or stretch the limits because she knows there really are no hard and fast limits.

See, the way I have seen this is that I need to set limits, or she will forever be looking for them.

However, right now the "rule" is that she has sippy cups in the rest of the house.

I could do this, I don't think my kid would protest. I'm just disorganized, and I never can find all the bits to the sippy.

I think my being disorganized may really be contributing in a bunch of areas to this drama we're having.

I do not allow myself to get upset.

How can you not allow yourself to get upset? If you're upset, you're upset, no? I'm not getting what to do with my angry feelings about this stuff, other than repress them, which doesn't feel like a good thing to do.

I like what a pp said about knowing that you have those dishes and that they will keep coming.

Yeah, I'm pondering this and find it helpful too. I need to build in to my expectations that these things will come up. Then I won't be so surprised, and maybe not so angry or irritated when they do.

[nancy926]

I skimmed through all of these posts so I apologize if I repeat anyone's insights....

She sounds just like a 2.5 year old. Honestly, 2.5 to just over 3 were some really trying months. BUT - things are only issues if YOU make them issues. I am to the point now where I don't make a big deal out of anything unless:

1. someone is about to be injured
2. something is about to break such that someone might be injured, or we might have to make a claim to our homeowner's insurance
3. well, that's about it really

I used to have all these rules - you can't eat this in this room, this can't go here, you must help clean up this if it spills, blah blah. And did it help? Nope. Just made me more stressed trying to remember all the rules!

I too have waited patiently for my DD to be done playing in the sand, wishing desperately there was a port-o-john nearby and wishing even more desperately that I could be on a deserted island with a good book and a pint of ice cream.

Now my DD, who is 3.5, will help clean up messes and usually goes along with what we suggest, as long as we don't suggest TOO many things in TOO short of a time span.

and I keep thinking - before I know it she'll be an adult, and I will want her to make her OWN decisions and not kowtow to what others want. My new mantra is "I am raising independent, creative and spirited adults." (The baby's acting 2.5 and she's only 9 mos! LOL.)

I do not know if any of this made sense, but the short version is: Give up on the dryer button and just let her press it 'til the cows come home. It's only fun because it pushes YOUR buttons, too.

Nancy

[thismama]

Originally Posted by nancy926

I too have waited patiently for my DD to be done playing in the sand, wishing desperately there was a port-o-john nearby and wishing even more desperately that I could be on a deserted island with a good book and a pint of ice cream.

See, this is not okay with me. Her desire to play in the sand does not supercede my need to go pee. I don't want parenting to take so much of me that I can't pee when I need to, or that I am just sitting there wishing I could be somewhere else.

I am not a martyr here. And I don't know where the balance is between respecting her and sacrificing too much of myself.

[nancy926]

It's not okay with me either, but I've done it. And I have a really small bladder.

I don't think I'm a martyr - I just have to wait to pee sometimes now. Just like I don't get to sit and read the paper every morning and have a leisurely breakfast, or read an entire book at one sitting. Ain't gonna happen for a few years.

Maybe I am a pessimist, but parenting *is* going to involve moments of wishing you were somewhere else, and not being able to pee when you need to. I don't think that means it's terrible.

In fact, I can't imagine anything more heroic than being a parent - particularly a single parent. You sometimes do stuff you don't really want to do (like playing Candy Land ad nauseum, using made-up rules that change by the minute), so that someone else can be happy. And most of the time that someone else doesn't realize you're doing it.

[PatchyMama]

I dont think its being a martyr either. I think parenting is about compromises on both sides. I know sometimes my girls have to wait a few minutes to pee because I am in line at the grocery store or where ever. I don't think anyone is advocating giving in ALL the time to what your daughter wants.... but choosing which instances are most important for your needs to take precedence in. I look at each situation independently and try to decide whose needs take priority. It's especially hard when there is more than one kid that needs to have their needs met and I do find a lot of the time my wants are pushed to later or at night when they are sleeping. But I am ok with that for this short period of time when they are little. I don't feel like I am being a martyr, I knew that they would be time consuming when I decided to have kids and parent in the way I want to.

Obviously your situation is a lot different and you have a harder time finding the right balance I hope that someone can offer some good advice.

[Fuamami]

I've only read 2 pages of this discussion, so who knows where it is now, but I just wanted to say this.

My kids and I just got back from an exhausting week long trip to visit my mom and sister. My 3 year old couldn't sleep very well while we were there, and she was kind of tired and getting over a cold before we left. She was soooo tired, and cranky, my one year old had an ear infection and wouldn't let me out of his sight, and I was also exhausted.

So I resorted to threats. What a wreck! It DID save me in some situations that were unsafe, and in the airport, but it just made us fight so much. AND, every time I threatened, "If you don't do this, I'm going to do this..." it just created the idea that she wouldn't do it.

I just really hate to draw the line in the sand like that. I'd just pick her up and move her after you ask her once. After you did that a few times, it would be just as effective with a child your age, I think.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by thismama

You all sound so much more zen than I am. I feel like, when I want to go, I want to go! I'm hungry, or I'm tired, or I have somewhere I have to be, yk? Rarely does it work for me to just sit and wait til she is done. Again, what about me, here?
<snip>
I don't expect that she will be able to empathize and consider my needs and desires in our relationship - she is 2, and she is my child, I am the mama. But how do I ensure my needs get met, at least part of the time, or when it feels important? Diverting to her every time causes me to feel like I am being rendered invisible, sacrificing too much, yk?

I don't go for the martyr bit either (as you mentioned in a post subsequent to the above one)...so something like the beach, if you already know she tends to dilly dally or get distracted or whatever (and if you didn't before, you do know it now), I would just build that into your expectations, and not give it the opportunity to happen, as much as you possibly can. When it's time to go, go to her, say it's time to go, and take her hand as you walk up the hill together. I'm also not beyond picking up a "noodle kid" and carrying them; empathizing, yes, staying calm and gentle yes. But I am not one who always defaults to my child....most of the time, I do because he's younger and less experienced, and has less ability to cope with disappointment than I do - ITA with PatchyMama on this...bolding my emphasis...

Originally Posted by PatchyMama

I dont think its being a martyr either. I think parenting is about compromises on both sides. I know sometimes my girls have to wait a few minutes to pee because I am in line at the grocery store or where ever. I don't think anyone is advocating giving in ALL the time to what your daughter wants.... but choosing which instances are most important for your needs to take precedence in. I look at each situation independently and try to decide whose needs take priority. It's especially hard when there is more than one kid that needs to have their needs met and I do find a lot of the time my wants are pushed to later or at night when they are sleeping. But I am ok with that for this short period of time when they are little. I don't feel like I am being a martyr, I knew that they would be time consuming when I decided to have kids and parent in the way I want to.

BUT when something really does matter to me, I gently facilitate it before it gets to the point where I'm compeltely frustrated. Again, yes, more effort and maybe more planning up front on my part, but way better than me feeling resentful that I can't pee or take a breath without clearing it with him first. I've also found that simply explaining things to him ahead of time works wonders.

For example: I usually try to build in 5-10 minutes when we're going out so he can run around our yard before we get into the car. However, on cold rainy days like today, or if we're running late, instead of springing it on him as we're out the door, when we're getting jackets and shoes, I'll say to him, "Hey kiddo, I know we usually play before we go to the car, but this time we have to get right in the car and get going because X." and repeat that a couple times over the next few minutes while I'm getting his snack and water, and getting my coat and shoes on. THEN, as we're walking out the door, I make sure I have his hand in mine, because I know if I don't, even though I talked to him about it he'll probably make a run for the yard. SO as we walk down the steps together, I remind him again we have to go right to the car, and he's totally fine. I learned this one the hard way, after many times of chasing him and carrying him upside down over my shoulder because I sprung it on him as we were walking down the steps and he already had his eyes on the grass...that's the "ounce of prevention" thing I mentioned in one of my previous posts.

Originally Posted by thismama

How can you not allow yourself to get upset? If you're upset, you're upset, no? I'm not getting what to do with my angry feelings about this stuff, other than repress them, which doesn't feel like a good thing to do.

Personally, I let myself get upset...my feelings are as valid as DS's. What I try to NOT do is let my feelings of frustration or whatever 'make' me do or say soemthing I wouldn't ahve done if I was calm. I'll say, "I'm frustrated right now, just a minute" or, "Mommy is angry, I need a minute to calm down" and just verbalizing the feelings really does help.

Originally Posted by thismama

I need to build in to my expectations that these things will come up. Then I won't be so surprised, and maybe not so angry or irritated when they do.

I really, REALLY think this will help. Really. (did I mention really? )

[mbravebird]

:

This is a great discussion. You mamas are great!

[georgia]

Personally, I let myself get upset...my feelings are as valid as DS's. What I try to NOT do is let my feelings of frustration or whatever 'make' me do or say soemthing I wouldn't ahve done if I was calm. I'll say, "I'm frustrated right now, just a minute" or, "Mommy is angry, I need a minute to calm down" and just verbalizing the feelings really does help.

ITA, and it's modeling constructive ways to handle intense emotions at the same time.

[Yooper]

On the "not allowing myself to get angry"..... I might not have worded that correctly. I am not at all into suppressing feelings. I do not think dd should do it and I feel that doing it myself would be setting a bad example. What I meant by that, is that I try not to let little things like spilled juice ruin my mood. Of course, I have days when spills do really wreck my mood. But when I examine the fact that my primary job is raising a toddler, then spills are part of the job description. I do not find great joy in mopping up messes, but they are part of a package that is joyful. But I will not allow myself to get angry at dd. Even if she did spill on purpose (which I really could never prove anyway), directing my frustation on her only makes the entire situation worse. The same thing can be extrapolated to potty accidents, muddy feet on the newly mopped floor, and gum stuck to my couch. I signed up for this gig and those are part of the package. However, I also have no problem with explaining to dd that I am in a bad mood and why.

OTOH, I can totally understand hot-button issues. Spills are not a biggie for me. But sleep is. My worst parenting moments have always involved sleep. I have had to FORCE myself to be calm when my mind was screaming. I have had to call friends late at night to take over so that I would not blow. I have paid high school sitters to put my child to sleep. Things are better now but I really had to stretch myself, our meager financial resources, and my imagination to get through those difficulties. It sound slike a lot of what you are discussing here are hot button issues. Hearing everyone say that it is no big deal for them is probably frustrating. And we still have those nights. Dh travels a lot but when he is home, he has bed duty. He is more patient in that department. Dd goes to bed when she wants to but still has trouble falling asleep. I have lifelong severe insomnia so there is no mystery as to where it came from. Last night, dh was up there for 2.5 hours and dd was still not asleep. I came in to ask if he needed me to take over. He was fuming angry. Not AT dd but at the situation. I laid my hand on dd's head to find she had a raging fever. No wonder she could not sleep. Dh instantly melted and felt bad for being so angry. But that is an obvious problem. On other nights when there is no fever and she is not sleeping, it is easy for me to feel like she is testing me or staying awake on purpose. I have to remind myself eveyr time that I do not know what is going on in her body. I do not know why she does some of the things she does. All I can do is be there for her and help her. It is hard. But there is always a way.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Yooper

I signed up for this gig and those are part of the package. However, I also have no problem with explaining to dd that I am in a bad mood and why.

I have to remind myself eveyr time that I do not know what is going on in her body. I do not know why she does some of the things she does. All I can do is be there for her and help her. It is hard. But there is always a way.

We have some sleep issues, too. This is such a helpful way to frame it. Thank you.

[thismama]

ITA that this is a great discussion. It is helping me immensely. There is so much good stuff here, I wish I could respond to everything people have said that has resonated with me.

Originally Posted by donosmommy04

if you already know she tends to dilly dally or get distracted or whatever (and if you didn't before, you do know it now), I would just build that into your expectations, and not give it the opportunity to happen, as much as you possibly can. When it's time to go, go to her, say it's time to go, and take her hand as you walk up the hill together. I'm also not beyond picking up a "noodle kid" and carrying them; empathizing, yes, staying calm and gentle yes. But I am not one who always defaults to my child....most of the time, I do because he's younger and less experienced, and has less ability to cope with disappointment than I do

Yeah, this works for me. I'd like to do as PatchyMama suggested and consider the situation, and whose needs take precedence. Then if the answer is "mine," I'd like to ensure I get get my needs met (leaving on time, going in the car and not the bike trailer, whatever) without needing to get angry or feeling guilty about it. Currently I tend to feel a combination of both.

Personally, I let myself get upset...my feelings are as valid as DS's. What I try to NOT do is let my feelings of frustration or whatever 'make' me do or say soemthing I wouldn't ahve done if I was calm. I'll say, "I'm frustrated right now, just a minute" or, "Mommy is angry, I need a minute to calm down" and just verbalizing the feelings really does help.

Yeah, that is really good. I used to do that, but I've moved away from it lately. What Piglet said about ascribing motivations of "testing" that aren't necessarily there has really rung true for me. I think sometimes it is testing, but many times it is not and I have assumed whatever she is doing is a voluntary, deliberate behaviour. And even when it is testing, responding to it with anger and offense is not the best. Probably either way it is best to respond as though it is a developmental thing, that she simply must do something or cannot stop.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by nancy926

I don't think I'm a martyr - I just have to wait to pee sometimes now. Just like I don't get to sit and read the paper every morning and have a leisurely breakfast, or read an entire book at one sitting. Ain't gonna happen for a few years.

I have to wait to pee sometimes too. In the mornings she is usually half-asleep, half-nursing for AGES. And I wait to get up til I absolutely have to go, because I know it is important for her to transition slowly from sleep to wakefulness. So I put my needs on hold then.

I think part of my (very complex, it seems ) problem is that whenever I don't put my needs on hold for hers, and she tantrums or gets sad as a result, I feel guilty. And then I feel angry that I "have to" feel guilty about giving my agenda precedence over hers. Which then contributes to my feeling like I will lose my temper with her, which is why I gravitate toward solutions like the sofa thing.

If that makes any freaking sense at all to anyone but me.