Spinoff: GD, eating, and sugar

[oceanbaby]

We have on ongoing issue with sugar with ds1. I don't ever want food to be a battle, and I certainly don't force him to eat. I've never been into praise or threats to get children to eat, and I believe in letting him follow his body's cues as to what he wants to eat when. However, I also believe that sugar is addictive and that at this age I am responsible for guiding his consumption of sugar. But I am not always sure about how to go about doing that.

First, let me say that we have tried the "whatever we have in the house is up for grabs." It wasn't healthy. We could have no sugary treats whatsoever but he would ask to eat the sugar plain out of the cupboard. If we went out to dinner he would just want soda pop. If we were at his grandparent's house he would only eat ice cream. Actually, "only" isn't entirely correct. He would first eat the junk and then eat a little food. But the main problem is that his behavior is horrible if he eats too much sugar, so if nothing else it's not working for us as a family to have to deal with his sugar behavior if he's not limited.

But, of course, the problem is that I get cornered into what begins to resemble a "one more bite" routine. I don't want to do that. I don't want to tell ds how much to eat. I talk about eating whatever feels good for his body, but then he takes one bite of chicken and then and wants "something sugary."

I just sometimes don't know what to do when he asks for sugary stuff before he's eaten.

[EviesMom]

I haven't had to address this personally yet, as my daughter is young, but I have a friend who has a 1-sugary-treat-a-day limit for everyone in the family, including the parents. It seems to work well for them. Soda counts, as does ice cream, candy bars, etc. The 5 year old and his mother had a long conversation about whether or not his waffle with maple syrup and whipped cream counted when we went to brunch. (It did.)

[Plummeting]

KristiMetz has posted some great info on this in the past. Her advice has actually helped us a LOT. Basically, if there is a food or treat that DD likes, we keep some in the house, even if it's something totally not good for her, we keep some here. Whenever she wants something, she can have it, whatever it is. I don't say, "Wouldn't you rather have broccoli?" when she asks for a sucker. I don't tell her, "We have apples, oranges, carrots and yogurt if you want one of those things" when she asks for popcorn. I just give it to her and pretend like I could care less what she eats. I smile and act happy about it. (This is SO hard for me!) It works WONDERS for us though.

DD will ask for something I'd rather her not have anywhere from one to five times a day. But this is what happens: "Mommy, I want sucker." I cringe inside, then get her a sucker and say, "Here you go, honey." She licks it 4 times, then says, "Don't want it. Put it way." I then immediately clean her teeth (she had dental problems before she had ever tasted sugar in her life) and that's that. Sometimes she'll do that 5 times a day. Usually, it's once or twice. But inevitably, she ends up eating LESS junkfood than she did when I limited her. Whenever I refused to keep things like suckers (her favorite) in the house, she would eat a whole sucker any time she got her hands on one -the WHOLE thing. But now she doesn't eat the equivalent of an entire sucker in a week. Heck, probably not even in three weeks. The novelty is gone because I gave her access to then, rather than refusing to keep them in the house, or only allowing her X number, etc.

It's just a thought...I hope KristiMetz comes - she can explain it much better.

[Nora'sMama]

Plummeting, it sounds like that is what the OP was doing and it isn't working for them.

I am wondering about how I will approach this issue in the future b/c I feel that I am addicted to sugar in the same way that I used to be addicted to cigarettes, and I do not think that high-sugar junk foods are the same as whole foods. No one gets "addicted" to apples, for instance, but the brain responds to refined sugar differently. Highly processed junk food does not occur in nature and so I don't think we can expect our bodies or our brains to be able to self-regulate with these substances in the same way that they can with whole foods. I think that for some children, who are not prone to be addicted to sugar/carbs, letting them self-regulate their food intake could work. However, for many (dare I say most?) children, their "natural" self-regulatory system is going to be totally stampeded by the lust for sugar, and they will *never* be able to self-regulate. I cannot self-regulate with sugar and I am 30 years old. I cannot keep junk in the house because it would always - always - displace healthy whole foods. To me, it is not fair to demand something of a child that they are not capable of doing - and self-regulating intake of junk foods clearly falls under that heading for MOST children, and probably mine since she is mine and DH's daughter! I would no sooner keep sugary treats in the house and let her have unfettered access to them than I would do that for myself. It would be neglectful parenting IMO.

But I am always interested in hearing about how people deal with the junk food issues. I am very aware that making sugar the "forbidden fruit" can have the opposite effect from that desired.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

Plummeting, it sounds like that is what the OP was doing and it isn't working for them.

No, it's not at all what she was doing. She specifically said,

First, let me say that we have tried the "whatever we have in the house is up for grabs." It wasn't healthy. We could have no sugary treats whatsoever but he would ask to eat the sugar plain out of the cupboard.

She was limiting his food choices by not keeping certain foods in the house, so that he wouldn't have access to them. I am saying to KEEP those foods in the house and allow him free access to them. Totally, totally different.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

To me, it is not fair to demand something of a child that they are not capable of doing - and self-regulating intake of junk foods clearly falls under that heading for MOST children, and probably mine since she is mine and DH's daughter! I would no sooner keep sugary treats in the house and let her have unfettered access to them than I would do that for myself. It would be neglectful parenting IMO.

Are you saying that, in your opinion, I'm practicing neglectful parenting? Or that if my daughter ate sugar all day, I would be doig so? Hopefully the second.

Have you ever wondered *why* you can't control your eating habits? Has it ever occured to you that it may be because of the attitudes and controls about food that your own parents enforced upon you as a child? It's worth considering.

Do you believe that the only reason my daugher isn't a sugar junkie is because I and her father are not junkfood junkies? Let me rid you of that notion. I have a *very* hard time not eating junk. I happen to LOVE brownies. I happen to LOVE ice cream. I happen to LOVE potato chips. If I didn't know they weren't good for me, I would eat them all day long. My husband LOVES those snack crackers filled with cheese. He LOVES Burger King. He LOVES chocolate chip cookies. He exercises much less control over his own diet than I do over mine. DD doesn't have some special gene that protects her from craving junk food, but she still manages to choose a very healthy diet. (Although I would have preferred she didn't eat a whole jar of homemade, organic walnut butter in 4 days last week. Oh yes, and it had only 1 teaspoon of honey as a sweetener in the whole pint.)

[IncaMama]

nak so must be short

we also do what plummeting does. some days it bites us in the arse and he eats crap all day. but those days are rare. and i can't tell you how great it feels when i ask my son what he wants for dinner and he proudly says "tofu and grapes, please?" ahhhh.

of course, this following a lunch of goldfish and cookies. : but anyway! i think that your dc is old enough (5yo, right OP?) to *talk* about self-regulation. tell him about how we all need to be careful about what we put into our bodies. this could even be combined with a little mini anatomy/digestive lesson. talk about what happens to the food when we put it in our mouths. talk about how we need healthy food to keep our bodies running smoothly,to have enough energy, AND to help us digest the yummy treats we like. instead of an "in the moment" one more bite routine, you could talk about how each day we need to eat a certain amount of good stuff so that our bodies are ready to digest the yummy not-so-good-for-us stuff. and let him start thinking about it, start examining his own diet, talking about what YOU'RE eating and what he's eating and how balanced it is, etc.

i'd also suggest finding some very yummy, sweet healthy alternatives. some applesauce or a sandwich of sunbutter and honey (a new discovery for me, thanks captaincrunchy!). you probably have already done this.

[monkey's mom]

Can you talk to him about possible solutions?

Maybe without using words like "junk" and "addiction" and "control"?

Even if we're not actively prohibiting, sometimes our negative attitudes can really come through to our kids. And knowing that they're on "shaky ground" with the limits lifted, might cause binging behavior--b/c they're pretty sure that even though you're saying, "OK." that permission probably isn't going to last very long.

We don't limit (neglectful! ), and we deal with a lot of food allergies/sensitivities. Last night my son (4.5) and I discussed him giving up potato for a few days--just to see if that was the root of some reactions he's been having. And even though he LOVES his Cape Cod potato chips and french fries are pretty much the ONLY thing he can eat in a restaurant, he was cool with it. Mostly because he knows it's up to him. So, I'll remind him today when he'll likely ask for something potato, but ultimately it's his call.

Good luck!

[guestmama9915]

Hmm, I'm sort of naturally done what Plummeting described. Mainly because, growing up, I was given access to any food in the house. My mother bought a lot of junk food. She also cooked dinner every night, even thought it wasn't the healthiest of stuff all the time, it included veggies and whatnot. So I ate whatever, and I drank a lot of soda. DH on the other hand had a more strict diet. He couldn't have soda or fast food or junk food. His mom bought healthier foods and made him eat those.

He is overweight and addicted to soda and fast food. I am not. So while it may not be the same situation for everyone, I think the way we were brought up regarding food really has affected us.

Anyway, I let my 2yr old have anything she wants in the house that's reasonable (I'm not making her mac and cheese after I've made lunch already). Sometimes she'll choose to have 5 chocolates (UGH) but so, so rarely. Usually she asks for milk or water, now and then she'll ask for juice or even some soda. She prefers to snack on oranges, apples, cheese slices, whatever. She loves oatmeal. She loves tomatoes. Also, we have a LOT of junk food in the house.

To the OP, you mentioned limiting what is in the house. But have you actually just "let it go"? Your child (sorry I don't remember if girl or boy) might overdose on all the junk for a while, but I do think *most* children are capable of self-regulating foods, especially IF they have been eating the healthier foods since they started eating solids.

[OakBerry]

I do limit, we have the same issues as you Oceanbaby. My ds gets aggressive and hyperactive when he has sugar. He has also stopped napping in the afternoon so that is a very difficult time for us both.
Ds gets a choice. He can have something sweet after breakfast. He gets his choice, so it's not always sweets, sometimes it's potato chips, etc. That's usually when we go outside to play or go for a walk anyway, so being hyper, loud and a bit aggressive is more managable for me then.
I also let him have a fruit popsicle for dessert each night. He is so exhausted by then that a fruit pop won't keep him awake. He knows he's going to get these things daily, if he wants them.

[DevaMajka]

hmmmm. I try to not limit what ds eats. We eat pretty healthy in this house, and we tend to have fruit and veggies a lot. The main junk in this house consists of tortillas and salsa, and triscuits and cheese. And the chocolate (gross cheap chocolate) that we had before we tried really hard to go no-junk, because ds already has cavities that are getting worse by the second. But that's been there a while, so...
I also have some canned fruit and veggies (ok, ok I know...but its better than junk- and I rinse it before he eats it) in a bottom cupboard where he can see it, and get it to ask me for it. That way when he's hungry, his first idea isn't something junky.
If he sees something that is junky that he wants, I don't say no. I kinda just let it happen.
We do have some xylitol candies that he likes. And he doesn't really regulate that very well. And when we go to my family's houses, they have candy all over the place. And he pretty much eats as much as I'll let him. I try to let it go until I just can't stand the thought of him having one more bite, then I just say no, and try to redirect to something a bit better. Actually, after that point, he's pretty easy to redirect lol. So maybe there is some semblence of regulation there. But, we do try prevention

Perhaps I could try to not limit at all. That didn't work a few months ago, but he's only 22 mos now, so that could change. But really, this way isn't ending in any power struggles. And it seems that he's getting less and less interested in the junk food at my family's houses. So...

I did read an article that referred to a study where kids who had juice on a regular basis, and had candy more than once a week, were more prone to have cavities. The toothbrushing habits of both groups were the same.
So (like has been said here before) sugar is a HUGE factor in cavities (obviously)- bigger even than toothbrushing. At least according to that study.

[VelmaLou]

Besides fruit my dd eats dried prunes, dried apricots, dried figs, raisins, dark chocolate, toast with honey. If she wants something sweet to drink she can have tea sweetened with honey. Otherwise it's water. That's all there is in this house. The problems arise occasionally when we're out.

[Twocoolboys]

I have been thinking about this all morning. We don't take either extreme position in our house. I have a sweet tooth, my dh does not, but he likes his carby snacks, like pretzels, etc. I agree that parents should not make a big deal about any kind of food with their kids, but I think we do have to set some limits.

We limit the time that we can eat sugary stuff. We don't eat any sweets in the morning. Breakfast must be healthy and not consist of sugar cereals, poptarts (things I don't buy anyway), or any other junky stuff. With the occasional exception of pancakes or waffles with syrup, the whole family sticks to this rule. I started it for myself years ago, before children because high sugar in the morning just makes me tired and cranky. And, I really believe that we all need to start our day with healthy foods.

Also, I believe it is a much more complex issue than having access to junk foods or not to learn self-control. Food additives like high-fructoce corn syrup over ride the bodies natural ability to regulate quantity. A child (and many adults) that has unlimited access to this kind of junk food is not going to be able to self-regulate. Also, different people crave different types of foods. We are all a little different genetically and some of us have stronger sweet tooths (sweet teeth? lol) than others. That is like arguing nature vs. nurture. Is my sweet tooth because of the way I was raised or is it because of my genetics? Either way, I KNOW that sweets are bad for me and I have even cut sugar out for weeks at a time, but ultimately, they get the best of me now and again. By making little rules for myself, I am able to keep myself from having a weight problem. But, how is a child, even armed with this knowledge going to be able to completely control themselves given unlimited access if an adult can't?

My mom never bought sugar cereal or poptarts for us, and I don't crave those now as an adult. And potato chips and soda were for special occasions. I never had the desire to binge on those things even though they were mostly forbidden in our house. But, I do sometimes binge on things that were readily available. Cookies and cake, etc. Those are the kinds of sweets that I love, not the forbidden stuff.

I also have and continue to educate my oldest about what is healthy and what is not. He understands, but that doesn't mean that he always complies or wants to comply. We do have a certain amount of junk in our house. But, our house is not stocked with it always. I do buy healthier snacks as well, but my dh and I are not going to live a life without ice cream and don't want our kids to either - lol.

Another thing I have done is make some fruits into "treats". I will make a big deal out of the kids each getting to pick a special apple from the myriad of apples they have at the grocery store. I do buy the bagged apples for every day eating, but if my ds gets to pick out a granny smith that is all his own, he is happy. We have had family movie nights where out "treats" are our own special apples.

I also make a big deal about picking local fruits when in season. I'm already getting excited for strawberry season, which is soon here. And, I'm talking it up to my kids. "I can't wait until we can go strawberry picking" I say often to get them excited too.

Other things I do this with are fresh pinapple, watermelon, blueberries, etc. Even though we eat a lot of fruit, I try to make it seem like a treat too. Our common everyday fruits, like bananas and macintosh apples are always there. But, there is something special about a box of clementines in January because we don't get them any other time of year. I will often use the phrase "what a treat this is". So, my boys think it is special too. I want them to think of these kinds of things when they think of the word "treat", not lollipops or chocolate cake.

Also, I don't mean to offend anyone, but when my oldest was 2 and 3 years old, it WAS much easier to avoid the junky stuff with him. This is an issue that gets harder to deal with as your kids get older and they realize that other kids get to eat all kinds of junk. They start to wonder why they can't. As with many things, compromise is the key.

[ZanZansMommy]

Just as Oakberry said I also limit My DD's choices. However she is 2.8 yrs old & not 5 like your son. I do talk to her about things we consider to be bad foods & how they can hurt her body. I too would eat junk food if it were in my home & this is why I have a hard & fast rule that it doesn't come in.

I grew up eating whatever I wanted whenever I wanted (My mom worked in a licorice factory & candy factory so we had it ALL the time). I happen to be the only one of my sibilings who was able to self regulate & now I won't touch the stuff. They eat crap all the time. Being exposed to sugar all the time only made them want it more. It had the opposite affect on me though. I find by limiting the amount of sugar DD has, that when she does have ice cream or anyhting else very sweet she tends to not eat all of it---her taste buds are used to something more bland.

So I don't believe all children can be trusted to self-regulate & eventually figure out that this stuff is bad for their body. I feel it's my job to provide healthy snacks, consistent with mine & DH's beliefs, & my DC can chose from those.

[ZanZansMommy]

Originally Posted by Twocoolboys

Also, I don't mean to offend anyone, but when my oldest was 2 and 3 years old, it WAS much easier to avoid the junky stuff with him. This is an issue that gets harder to deal with as your kids get older and they realize that other kids get to eat all kinds of junk. They start to wonder why they can't. As with many things, compromise is the key

So true Mama.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Twocoolboys

Also, I believe it is a much more complex issue than having access to junk foods or not to learn self-control. Food additives like high-fructoce corn syrup over ride the bodies natural ability to regulate quantity. A child (and many adults) that has unlimited access to this kind of junk food is not going to be able to self-regulate. Also, different people crave different types of foods. We are all a little different genetically and some of us have stronger sweet tooths (sweet teeth? lol) than others.

:
My brother, sister and I were all raised with the same diet, and same approach to food. I'm a complete sugar junkie. I have to monitor myself constantly to keep on top of it. I've found that having a couple hard-boiled eggs every morning helps, but it took me a long time to find that solution, because boiled eggs are the only protein source I could find that didn't want to make me gag first thing in the morning. That said...I don't eat white bread (except dinner rolls at restaurants and garlic bread), but my brother and sister won't eat anything else. My brother and sister will both happily start the day with a big plate of bacon and fried eggs, which I wouldn't touch. I eat meat...probably more than many people here...but I eat a fraction of what my brother and sister both eat. I'm the only one in my family with a real sweet tooth. I do think it's genetic - there are complicated psychological factors involved, as well...but they're also present for my sister. (In a nutshell, we were sexually abused, and the man's wife bought us off with junk food.)

DS1 has never had much interest in sugar, until recently. He'd end up throwing out half his Halloween candy every year, for instance. Since he hit puberty, he's been wanting more sugar, but he doesn't seem to have a real sweet tooth. DD, on the other hand, is a whole different story! She's only three, and I found her eating the brown sugar out of the bag in handfuls yesterday. If I let her, she'd live on sugar all day - this has happened (birthday parties and such). Sometimes, she might do what a pp mentioned, and take one bite, then leave it...but she's far more likely to do that with carrots, bananas, yogurt, etc. than with sugary treats. She's also extremely difficult to deal with if she gets a lot of sugar - she's up and down like a yo-yo, grumpy and prone to tears. There's no way she needs to be eating a lot of junk food. DS2 is still mostly breastfed, and hasn't had any sugary stuff yet (he's not quite 10 months!), so I don't know what he's going to be like.

I'm convinced that a lot of this is nature, not nurture. But, I don't have answers....I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with dd's sugar "thing".

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Twocoolboys

IAnother thing I have done is make some fruits into "treats". I will make a big deal out of the kids each getting to pick a special apple from the myriad of apples they have at the grocery store. I do buy the bagged apples for every day eating, but if my ds gets to pick out a granny smith that is all his own, he is happy. We have had family movie nights where out "treats" are our own special apples.

I also make a big deal about picking local fruits when in season. I'm already getting excited for strawberry season, which is soon here. And, I'm talking it up to my kids. "I can't wait until we can go strawberry picking" I say often to get them excited too.

Other things I do this with are fresh pinapple, watermelon, blueberries, etc. Even though we eat a lot of fruit, I try to make it seem like a treat too. Our common everyday fruits, like bananas and macintosh apples are always there. But, there is something special about a box of clementines in January because we don't get them any other time of year. I will often use the phrase "what a treat this is". So, my boys think it is special too. I want them to think of these kinds of things when they think of the word "treat", not lollipops or chocolate cake.

I do this to some extent. There's nothing that gets ds1 and dd as hyped up as seeing me come home with mangoes. They love them. And, we do dried fruit, as well...dd loves dates, dried cranberries and dried mango almost as much as candy.

[georgia]

I'm reading Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book Sleepless in America about sleep deficiencies in children...there are links between lack of sleep and sugar cravings...haven't gotten to that chapter yet , but it looks so interesting!

[Storm Bride]

georgia: I don't know about kids, but from personal experience, there are definitely links! When I was in the last few months with my ex-husband, and life was really awful, I didn't get much sleep. Between my ex and the job I had at the time, my stress levels were in orbit, which always causes me insomnia. I wasn't ever sleeping more than four hours a night, and had at least one night week, usually two, that I didn't sleep at all. What sleep I did get was in short spurts...that four hours would be an hour here, two hours there, etc. I was constantly ill, and...anyway - I was seriously sleep deprived. And, I ended up putting on about 30 pounds in six months or less. I'd buy a bag of toffees at lunch, and eat the whole thing at my desk in the afternoon. If I had to take in the bank deposit, I'd swing by the dollar store, and buy a chocolate bar and a bunch of caramels - they'd be gone in an hour. I was trying to give myself a boost...what I needed was sleep, but since I couldn't get it, I'd go for sugar...lots and lots and lots of sugar. It was brutal, and I'm convinced that it created a vicious cycle, in which my sugar intake was affecting my ability to sleep, as well.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy

So I don't believe all children can be trusted to self-regulate & eventually figure out that this stuff is bad for their body.

I don't think children will learn this on their own (unless they are really sensitive and actually feel sick from eating things which is not the case with ds) which is why I educate ds (read food labels, talk about the hazards of trans fat, discuss why he is hungry again a short while after eating sugar). Recently, we watched a PBS special about children in India developing night blindness from a lack of vit A which led to a discussion about nutrition and economy. Ds has gone through a sugar in a bowl phase. I let him do it for a while but now he seems to be accepting of the fact that it isn't a good breakfast food. In other words, he asked for sugar this morning, I told him that I wanted him to eat something with vitamins, and he cheerfully ate something more nutritious.

Another thing that I keep in mind is what kind of glycemic index (how high the food elevates blood sugar level) different foods actually have. For instance, ice cream, although sugary, does NOT have a very high glycemic index so it is a much better food than lollipops or even crackers. If ds wants something sweet, he'll be better off with ice cream or reese's peanut butter cups than with Italian water ice and jelly beans. Because of this knowledge, I can avoid a knee-jerk reaction of thinking ice cream is a bad breakfast food.