DH Believes in Spanking

[earthie_mama]

He also believes children need to "obey us immediately" While on one hand I agree that our children need to respect their elders, and I believe strgonly in respect. I feel that spanking and hand slapping do NOT cause children to respect their parents. I also agree our children will have a standard of how they are expected to act, and will not get to "do anything theywnat w/o consuquences" I know that may work for some people, but not us.

I guess my question is how to effectively use GD, when my one's partner will not......He was spanked.hand slapped, and felt it worked well for him, does it work for some kids? Wouldn't something else work instead? When I was spanked I became furious and developed hatred for the one who did it......I don't want this to happen to my DC. HELP! Now I'm just rambling....

[The4OfUs]

I'd suggest getting Anthony Wolf's "The Secret of Parenting". It's a parents in charge type of GD book with no spanking, no threats, and no shaming. If your DH will read it, great. If not, you can read it and take notes for him. That's what I did and am giving to DH in bits and pieces at a time.

I was raised GD, parents in charge, never yelled at, hit, or shamed. It can work. It's not the style of everyone here, and some of the consensual mamas would argue that it's not GD if parents are in charge, but I beg to differ, because I love my parents deeply, have no regrets about the way they raised me, and am parenting my child essentially the same way they parented me, although I'm more consensual and laid back than they were, because I've found it works better with my son's temperament (I was a very laid back, go with the flow kid, and DS is a bit more feisty). You can be authoritative without being authoritarian, and can be "in charge" without being overbearing or domineering. I'm not really interested in getting into a debate about it right now on this thread, but I know it's possible because I lived it. Feel free to PM me if you want more info and are interested.

I definitely suggest the book, though. Wish he made a DVD, DH would watch that in a heartbeat.

[DevaMajka]

I don't understand the notion that hitting a kid will make them respect their parents, either.
Respect is a feeling that you have, for another individual. I think kids respect their parents naturally. I respect people who deserve respect. It's based on how people act. There are some kids that I have a ton of respect for. There are MANY adults that I have less than no respect for (especially those that harm innocent people and animals)

I don't have any advice for dealing with dh. But HE should definitely not stop you from gd'ing!

I know that in the book The Continuum Concept, the Yequana tribe expect their kids to comply to requests right away. But they only make requests that are legitimate (no boundaries just for the sake of boundaries). They don't use any type of punishments, or logical consequences, or even coersion. It just is the way it is. And I think it works, because they expect that their kids are innately social creatures, who want to behave in a socially acceptable manner.

[earthie_mama]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I don't have any advice for dealing with dh. But HE should definitely not stop you from gd'ing!

I know that in the book The Continuum Concept, the Yequana tribe expect their kids to comply to requests right away. But they only make requests that are legitimate (no boundaries just for the sake of boundaries). They don't use any type of punishments, or logical consequences, or even coersion. It just is the way it is. And I think it works, because they expect that their kids are innately social creatures, who want to behave in a socially acceptable manner.

WOW, no, he would not stop ME from being gentle, but my concern is how it will affect our DC to have me gentle and him spank. Willl they blame me for not stopping him? I think we'd divorce before we came to an agreement. And he also believes in it only at a really young age when children don't understand our requests. The main ex. is our son touching things he's not supposed to and Joshua following up with a hand slap (after redirecting several times, saying no, pretending toi slap his hand so he knew it was on the way.....not just smack him straight out) I understand that so far redirection hasn't worked, and we've put up as much stuff as we can, but there are some things he can reach that he is not allowed to touch. I don;t know what to do, I'm sick of hearing how 'my way' doesn't work when I haven't even had enough time (You've had a year! he says) I think it takes a lot longer than that. I am a control freak, I don not think there is anything wrong with me having expectations of how they need to act if they want to be in my company. If my kids want to throw a fit, that's fine, but they have to do it alone, it bothers me to see/hear that. I guess that's kind of my philosophy so far. Everyone has boundaries, and I think if I expect my son to respect my boundaries, then I need to respect his. To me that means not being violent toward him. My husband does not consider it violence since he does it out of love. I beg to differ, although Ido see his point....I need to get both of these books.....I LOVE books!

[irinam]

Originally Posted by earthie_mama

Everyone has boundaries, and I think if I expect my son to respect my boundaries, then I need to respect his. To me that means not being violent toward him. My husband does not consider it violence since he does it out of love. I beg to differ, although Ido see his point....I need to get both of these books.....I LOVE books!

Yes to that mama!

Since you love books, may I suggest another one (that totally changed my perspective!)?

It's Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.

[eightyferrettoes]

I got nothing to offer here but sympathy, mama.

I bought a copy of the Searses' "Gentle Discipline" book for him (and me) to read... thus far, nothing much in the way of discussion has come of that.

How old is the kid? My son is 15 months old.

For us, part of the issue is age-inappropriate expectations on DH's part (and sometimes, on my end, too!); it's hard when the kid isn't verbal yet, so my husband feels like we can't communicate our displeasure any way other than swatting.

Though I argue that if he's not old enough to understand words, he is certainly not old enough to be hit for disobeying them.

It's a fundamental disconnect.

[eightyferrettoes]

Wait, OP, are you talking about the one-year-old baby in your siggy?

What kinds of stuff is he doing? I wouldn't consider a one-year-old touching things to be a punishable offense at all. It's what one-year-olds DO... if something in my house is "untouchable" that's sort of more a sign to me that it's time to move the object than it is a sign of an out-of-control kid.

I'd say that's a prime example of the sort of age-inappropriate expectations that we're struggling with here, too, though, so don't take any of this harshly.

As far as "you've had a year!" goes, you have NOT had a year to deal with this particular issue, and your kid hasn't either.

[eightyferrettoes]

And, sorry for the serial-posting, lol, but I don't have a problem with sitting next to DS while he "throws a fit." I just kind of hold on to him and let it blow over. I don't think that's rewarding him or being permissive or whatever... a baby that little is still a baby, in my book.

It's his way of handling his emotions-- and since DS only knows like three words, I imagine the world must be a VERY frustrating place when you can't talk out the things that are bothering you. Or tell Mom that you need a drink, or that you're bored out of your skull, or whatever.

It just seems to me like he's too little to be "disciplined" for some of the stuff you're talking about, if he's just a year old, YK?

[phathui5]

This is one area where I had to put my foot down with dh and say that hitting or spanking was completely unacceptable and that we had to find other ways to discipline. I do think that it is your responsibility here to protect your dc.

I am not saying that your dh is a bad dad or a mean person. He's just doing what he knows. It's what he was raised with that's the problem. Appeal to him however you have to, but let him know that you are not ok with your child being hit.

[earthie_mama]

Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes

It just seems to me like he's too little to be "disciplined" for some of the stuff you're talking about, if he's just a year old, YK?

Yeah, I think maybe I didn't make it clear, that the temper tantrum thing was more of an example of my attitude/ideas it is for an older child who has words. It's basically me asking them to respect my ears from their screaming kwim?

Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes

Wait, OP, are you talking about the one-year-old baby in your siggy?

What kinds of stuff is he doing? I wouldn't consider a one-year-old touching things to be a punishable offense at all.

The main thing is the TV and the power cords/outlets We've done our best to conceal them, but he runs around unplugging everything and tearing out those "child-proof" outlet covers. I usually take his hand in mine, tell him "dangerous or owie or hot......etc..." then pick him up and bring him to his toys, or read him a book, put him in my lap etc. My husband thinks slapping his hands is for his own protection.......

Originally Posted by phathui5

This is one area where I had to put my foot down with dh and say that hitting or spanking was completely unacceptable and that we had to find other ways to discipline. I do think that it is your responsibility here to protect your dc. Appeal to him however you have to, but let him know that you are not ok with your child being hit.

I have, and I try, but telling him what he can and can't do will just lead to a divorce, and then I'll really have no say.....when the DC's are over there that is. I just have to keep setting a good example I guess.

[rootzdawta]

to you Mama. I'm in the same situation. DH really loved and respected his father and his father did indeed hit him. He sees no problem with it. After arguing against circumcision, against vaccines, for a whole bunch of other things . . . I'm pretty much worn out and tired of fighting. I will never hit my son and will do my best to discipline him gently. I hope that DH will see that you don't have to be violent to discipline children and that GD does indeed work and will just see the uselessness of hitting. I don't know, however, as of now, if I will be able to deal with him hitting ds . . . I really don't know. My loyalties, unfortunately or not, lay squarely with DS. I can't and won't ignore my mothering instincts.

[shanesmama]

I am sorta in the same boat, though my SO is a little more laid back and tries not to hit his little hand, because he knows how I feel about it, but it does happen.

One thing I just remind him over and over that what he is doing is age appropriate things. The phone, dogs bowl, tv buttons, I don't think, I got to watch a full show ever becuase he would turn the tv on and off. We finally moved the phone away were he can't get it, no more problem. Why hadn't I thought of that months ago. As for the tv, he is doing it less and less, hardly much anymore, but it took 7 months of consitancy on my part.

Just keep doing the best you are doing.

[earthie_mama]

Originally Posted by shanesmama

I am sorta in the same boat, though my SO is a little more laid back and tries not to hit his little hand, because he knows how I feel about it, but it does happen.

Yes, DH is good about it too, he doesnt just out and smack him. He warns him, redierects him, etc. By the time he finally does it he's just convinced nothing else will work, I think. I admit he repeatedly touches he KNOWS he is not supposed to. I can tell, because he will go to touch it, and then look at me, with the cutest little mischevious grin, so he knows he is not supposed to be doing what he is about to do. I try to be consistent, but the worst part I think I have with consistency is getting wrapped up in what I am doing as far as household tasks etc. and he's touching the thing he's not supposed to be for like 2 minutes before I notice. Its not like I leave the roiom, I just get....focused, I guess. A lot of times, b/c my son LOVES to be touched, I will pick him up when he is 'being mischevious' andf go RAH RAH RAH in his tummy and then tickle him til he has the hiccoughs lol I don't know what my point is...I'm tired, I guess I just really love my job, even the challenges......

[13moons]

First, I have to agree with other posters that this is age appropriate stuff and the child is not doing anything wrong. (As for your main example, if it's mainly plugs and outlet covers that are an issue with touching, change the outlets themselves. Take away the temptation as much as possible and save yourself the struggle. We put those box ones over the outlets within reach in our house and the grandparents houses when my ds was klittle and loved the plugs. Those box ones don't come off unless the kid has a screw driver and knows how to use it.)

A) I don't agree with any form of hitting a child--it's all hitting and hitting is flat out not acceptable in my house. If my spouse diagreed, he could take a hike. But that's just me and I understand that you are expressing that is not something you are interested in.
B)As far as the hand slap, one thing you said that will make his method particularly ineffective is this:

Originally Posted by earthie_mama

The main ex. is our son touching things he's not supposed to and Joshua following up with a hand slap (after redirecting several times, saying no, pretending toi slap his hand so he knew it was on the way.....not just smack him straight out)

Again, I'm not condoning this but please notice the definite lack of consistency there. A child of this age will do things over and over and over again to see if he gets the same result each time. When sometimes he gets gentle words of reprimand, sometimes he gets a pretend slap and sometimes he gets a real slap, he really has no way of knowing what is going to happen when he does the offending action. And he probably will continue to do it, so pick a method and stick with it consistently. (A one year old will not understand that a pretend slap means a real one is coming next.)

And as far as the respect issue, I can tell you from my personal experience and that of my brother and sister, we still to this day laugh at the fact the my dad tried to pull that "I'm doing this because I love you" stuff when he spanked us. It is ridiculous and we literally laugh about it now and had no respect whatsoever for that aspect of my parents' parenting then or now. Hitting a child will not encourage them to respect you. Ever. Fear maybe, but not respect.

I hope you find a solution that works for your family. Yes we do what we know, but sometimes that's not good enough and we have to step it up a notch and do better than what we know even if it is harder and unfamiliar. Good luck, mama and good for you for trying to find a way to do the best you can for your son.

[13moons]

Originally Posted by earthie_mama

Yes, DH is good about it too, he doesnt just out and smack him. He warns him, redierects him, etc. By the time he finally does it he's just convinced nothing else will work, I think. I admit he repeatedly touches he KNOWS he is not supposed to. I can tell, because he will go to touch it, and then look at me, with the cutest little mischevious grin, so he knows he is not supposed to be doing what he is about to do.

He's one. He is not doing it because he knows he isn't supposed to, mama, he's doing it to find out if he will get the same reaction every time or if sometimes he will get a different reaction and if so, what will it be? He's trying to find out how his world works. That's all.

[The4OfUs]

OK, now that I realize we're talking about a 1-year-old ( I neglected to look at your kiddos age originally), I have some additional, and different advice.

Expectations: You can't have any.

Seriously though, children really do NOT have impulse control until around 3 years old....so even though they may KNOW they're not supposed to do something, they simply can't override the impulse to do it, especially if it gets a "funny" reaction out of you. Funny to them can include any kind of reaction that is not what your normal tone and speech is with them. We've all been there for the unplugging and replugging, the TV buttons being pressed, the doors being opened and closed, etc. etc. It's just what they do.

AND, I love 80FT's sentiment:

Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes

Though I argue that if he's not old enough to understand words, he is certainly not old enough to be hit for disobeying them.

. Right on with that

I think in addition to any parenting book you might want to get, you both really need to read up on developmental appropriateness...otherwise, the next 2 years are going to be really, REALLY long and frustrating for all of you, including your son. You can search "age appropriate" or "developmental" inside the GD forum because I know we've had a couple recent threads asking for reference materials to age appropriate behaviors. I'm all for having expectations of children; BUT, expecting them to do things their brains aren't yet capable of isn't fair.

I think up until a child is about 3 or so, your best tools are: Babyproof (even when you think you can't babyproof anymore), redirect, distract, and be CONSISTENT. There are children out there who aren't 'button pushers' (I was apparently one of them; my mom has NO idea how easy she had it ), and respond to verbal requests and redirection very quickly....but I would say that those are the exceptions, not the rule. A vast majority of children are basically impulsive, curious, exploring machines on feet, and facilitating that as much as possible and as safely as possible is our job as parents, IMHO.

Oh - and don't worry that you're always going to be modifying your environment, redirecting, etc. etc. just because you're doing it while your child is little....or that because they throw flailing, hitting, biting fits at 2 that they'll be doing it at 9. Children grow and develop out of stages (though sometimes it seems like they never will), and so long as you're providing the explanations and consistent responses, when their brains are ready and it 'clicks', think of how easy it will be! Laying the GD groundwork in the early years pays off by the boatload in later years - and personally, I'm in for the long haul, so I'm up for the extra effort I'm putting forth now.

Hope this helps some more.

[phathui5]

telling him what he can and can't do will just lead to a divorce

Initiated by whom? Will he leave you for telling him not to hit his son? Has he said that?

I'm not saying to start telling your dh what to do all the time. I'm saying to stand up for your son and see what happens. It doesn't have to be done in a disrespectful way. Use "I" statements. Think it out before you talk to him. But do something.

[Brigianna]

Well, I don't agree that a 1 yr old can't be taught impulse control, but spanking is definitely not the way to teach it. I would recommend active teaching--instead of hitting him, move him, while repeating the request. With the things he's not supposed to touch, pull his hand back while saying "please don't touch that." This is more specific teaching than hitting him, in addition to being much more respectful. Redirection by itself might not be enough.

As far as respect, you really can't make him respect you. You have a better chance, I think, if you treat him respectfully, but in the end it is his choice whether or not to respect you or anyone else. I don't think that can be taught, except by example.

I do think your dh is being unreasonable by expecting your baby to be fully disciplined by age 1. It's not fair to say that your way "doesn't work"--he's still a baby! Active discipline is a long process.

Good luck.

[Piglet68]

I think you've got big problems. GD is not going to be effective with a parent who is not on board with it and using coercive and punitive techniques in the same household. I think you and your partner need to resolve this issue. If he's open to researching the subject, we can point you to a wealth of information. But if he's not interested in really learning anything new, you may need to address this as a marital issue and not a GD one. If you have good communication skills, the two of you may be able to work through this. Since you are the one at home (I'm assuming) then this is your "job" and perhaps he'd be willing to leave this domain to you, much as you wouldn't go to work and tell him how to do his job. After all, you are the one spending the most time with them, and you will feel the repercussions when your child is older and starts getting involved in power struggle issues.

Good luck.

[earthie_mama]

What are these outlet boxes of which you speak? Does it keep him from being able to unplug things?!?!? Amazing! (If it indeed does)

I have brought this up numerous times to my DH, he says at this point it doesn't matter, b/c he only thinks hand-slapping is effective when the child is very young, so they will associate a negative 'feeling' to the object they touch. So, he basically said Sabien is too old for that method......but there's always the next ones, and we're due in Jan! So, I have some time. nd yes, if it really came down to it, if he refused to try anymore GD methods with me, then yes I would leave my husband before I would let him 'raise' our children this way. He really feels that his way is effective, and I'm not sure what I can say top change that, so I will just keep doing what I do, and appeal toi him when the imes is appropriate. I almost always get him to see my side of things (He was VERY pro-circ, but I told him all about that too......)

And as to whether my DS knows those things are not okay to touch.......even if he doesn't which I can't say either way, it is still not okay to touch the things he is touching and he still needs to be taught the difference, and its not as if I expect him not to ever touch the things he touches, it is when I have told him repeatedly, and redirected him repeatedly, and he keeps going back to the same things immediately afterwards, like a gajillion times in a row, and I know he knows some of what I tell him, b/c he follows verbal directions quite wwell (except for when he is near the cords- hes obsessed) for instqance, the other day he pulled a piece of the wood floor up, so he had a sharp stick! I asked him to give it to me, he did, even though he was having a blast, he gave it to me, and then I took him to play somewhere else.