Delayed Consequences with Two Year Old

[OMama]

My DD who just turned two about two weeks is having difficulty cooperating and doing what I ask her to. Not surprising, I know, at this age. Her favorite word as of late, like many other two year olds, is "no" or "nope." She says this to just about everything -- even stuff she likes.

One of our regular battles is quite typical: getting dressed in the morning after we shower and usually we are then trying to leave the house to go somewhere. I often try to distract her or just wait for her when she runs away. I'm PG too and pretty sick so I have even less energy to chase after her. She is just physically too strong now too so I can't even hold her down to get her diaper or clothes on anymore.

I'm trying to reason with her to get dressed. I tell her where we are going and try to give her incentives. For example, yesterday we were TRYING to go to Ikea. She likes Ikea. She gets to eat there and play. I kept asking her "don't you want to go to Ikea" but then she would just yell "no" and run away. This occured many, many times. I couldn't get her dressed for an hour. (I instead called my Mom and talked on the phone for a while) and then it was too late to go to Ikea. We ran some other errands nearby after DD finally decided to cooperate (and even then I had to wrestle with her a bit). When we got in the car she asked if we were going to Ikea and I told her no, that it was now too late. That we didn't get dressed early enough and that she hadn't cooperated when I needed her to.

My question is: is it even useful to use Ikea (for example) as an incentive in that moment or is it too delayed? It would have taken us almost an hour to get there from the point in time when I was trying to get her to get dressed. But since she asked about it when we finally did get in the car it made me wonder if it is useful after all. When using incentives is it only useful if it is imediate (i.e. in the next five minutes) or can it be something that we'll do or she'll get later in the day? It seems like she just lives so in the minute and has a hard time realizing that there are consequences to her actions, but I know that she needs to learn this as well. What should my expectations be for her at this age?

[maya44]

Your methods are simply not how I parented at this age.

I gave my children explanations for why I expected certain things to happen, but I never felt that they must "agree"

I knew they would like where we were going (Ikea for example)

I knew I wanted to go there.

I did not make getting dressed something that I was trying to get them to agree to. It was something that I expected to happen.

"YOu need to get dressed now. We are going to Ikea."

I found that when I was matter of fact about my expectations. That I was not trying to get them to say "OK" they simply went along.

The message they were picking up on was "this has to be done." Kids can feel the difference. They really can.

And if it were somewhere we had to be truly, like picking up their sister somewhere, I would as gently as possible "help' them get dressed.

[DevaMajka]

Imo, its not fair for us to ask ds to make a choice like that (to get dressed even though he may not want to), then let him deal with the consequence of not going to the park. He doesn't understand the whole "if...then..." thing fully yet. Especially things that are far away in time (ie, not immediate). I'm sure it will come soon enough

I agree with what Maya said about not trying to get dc's to agree.
I've even found that ds is more agreeable when I say "Let's get dressed. We are going to the store." then take him to get him dressed. If he dissents (rarely), we stop and try again later, unless its important (which is rare).

Dp will say something like "Are you ready to get dressed" and ds sometimes refuses. It gets worse when dp adds that they are going to the park. Because then, all ds wants to do is go to the park! He doesn't want to stop to get dressed. lol. At that point, I pick him up and take him to get dressed. In a "this is the way it is" type of way. And he generally is quite ok with it.

I think making them choose in that situation is too overwhelming, and too much responsibility. Responsibility that they did not ask for. Note that if my ds dissents to something, I generally respect that (almost always), and stop doing it. That is a choice HE decided to make. That is different than a choice that I asked him to make.

I've also noticed that if I want to do something, (say we're outside, and I want to go in), that it is more helpful to tell him that *I* want to go in, than it is to try to convince him that *HE* wants to go in ("we could go play with your ball"). He's not fooled into believing its what he wants. But sometimes, he's considerate of what I want.

But, if I went to dress him, and he dissented, and kept on dissenting until it was too late to go to the park, and then asked if we could go, I'd tell him that it was too late. I don't think I'd tell him that it was his fault, or that we couldn't go because it took too long to get dressed. I imagine that when he's ready to understand natural consequences, he'll be able to connect those dots.
Dp would probably tell him that we couldn't go because it took him too long to get dressed, and I wouldn't have a problem with that. But I personally wouldn't do it.

[Piglet68]

I agree with maya. I wouldn't phrase things as a choice. I'd say "okay, we're going to Ikea! you need to get some socks on". If she didn't respond I'd go get the socks and bring them to her, sit her down, and while doing that I would distract her by asking her something about Ikea, like what she would like to see there, or eat (my DD loves Ikea, too, lol).

It also sounds like she is interested in playing/engaging with you, so you might turn getting dressed into a game, or you might attempt to tickle her feet, or do the "reverse psychology" game where you say "now, we can NOT wear clothes to Ikea, we HAVE to be naked!" or you can say "hmmm, these socks are too small!" while you try to put them on her knees. Anything funny that engages you and her together is likely to help her cooperate.

If they run away, I just keep doing what I need to do - packing diaper bag or getting myself ready. I don't let it get to me. I might even leave some things up to the car, like if she is insisting on having bare feet then I bring sock and shoes into the car. When we get where we're going she's always so excited to get out we've never, ever had an issue about putting them on when before we get out of the car.

I'm guessing that your DD is sensing an issue, and that is fueling her non-cooperation. When my DD senses I'm getting frustrated her behaviour is likely to worsen, including running from me when I'm trying to get her dressed. I make a strong effort not to react to that, and just keep trying to engage her mind in something else.

Finally, and I don't know if this would work for all kids, but I also will sometimes resort to saying "okay, DD, we're leaving now, so we need to get shoes on" and make a move for the door. Now we have talked about this in depth and DD knows I would never leave without her, nor leave her alone, nor anything like that. For her it works because she wants to do whatever I'm doing, and if I'm leaving then she wants to leave too. But sometimes it takes me going to the door and opening it (we live in an apartment so it's open to the hallway) to get her butt in gear and realize we really are going NOW. Again, this works just because of the way she is, and it isn't a veiled attempt to use separation as a weapon.

[DevaMajka]

Oh, about the running away- my ds sometimes does that, and he wants me to run after him. Its a game to him- he runs, I tell him I'm going to catch him and put his shirt on, and that's what we do. I catch him, and he willingly gets his shirt on, and we do it again for pants, etc.
I really did not want to turn getting dressed into a chasing game, but it was something he obviously wanted, and he has fun doing it. It doesn't happen all the time, or even often.

[MAMom]

I could use some additional clarification here, since the getting dressed scenario is a hot one for me & often turns into a mess at my house. I am finding that this is the issue I am most likely to lose my GDing abilities about - for whatever reason (and I still can't figure out why) the dragging out of getting ready for the day really pushes my buttons.

My preference is to try to get DS (3 y.o) diaper changed, dressed, teeth brushed & face washed after breakfast. I really just don't want it to take an hour or more of starting to get it done, then DS gets distracted, I go do something else, try again, and on and on and on. Also I have a 3 month old & though I usually carry her most of the day, I usually put her down during the morning routine, and she has a limit on how long she'll tolerate being down.

I like the idea of sometimes dropping it, and trying again later, BUT that isn't realistic most days for us. I have been trying to get into a routine of doing those 4 things (diaper, dressed, teeth & face) even on days that we don't have to leave the house, just so it sets the expectation. And some days we really DO have to be somewhere at a particular time (vs. just getting dressed to be able to go out to the park), and don't want to struggle with DS.

I'd love to hear some more on how others handle this....
___________________________________
SAHM to a spectacular DS (5/2003) & delightful DD (2/2006 HBAC!)
“You never know when you are making a memory.” ~ Rickie Lee Jones

[Brigianna]

I think often 2 yr olds will say "no" not because they really don't want to do what you're asking, but just because they like saying "no." In your case, I would say something like "you need to get dressed so we can go to Ikea" and then proceed to dress her myself. I would stop and let her do it if she wanted to. And I would also give a choice about time if possible--"do you want to go to Ikea now or after lunch?"

With morning routines I would just try to minimize it; I know that's not always possible, but things like bathing and getting dressed the night before are helpful.

[OMama]

Thank you for your responses. I should have clarified in my earlier post that with the Ikea example and other situations, I don't offer this as a choice. I have said to DD "we have to get dressed now so we can go to Ikea" and the like. I am really careful about what I offer as choices. Unfortunately, no matter how firm I am about that this is what is happening, she still often responds by yelling no and running away. And because I am always on the verge of throwing up and am just so stinkin' tired and because she is so flippin' strong now, I literally can't get her diaper and clothes on her unless she cooperates to a degree. Does that mean that it has now turned into a choice? Since she has run away. I try to pick my battles with her since no is the response to many things these days. Obviously it wasn't the end of the world if we didn't go to Ikea. Maybe she knows that? But she behaves the same way if it is somewhere we MUST go to too. Like my midwives appointments. Basically she just does this every darn morning. Has she made something into a choice even if I didn't offer it as one? And realistically how do you respond to that?

I have definitely tried distracting her, giving her a toy to look at, doing something silly, etc. Sometimes it works, but lately it doesn't. It has become a game. I can only chase her from one room of the house to the next before I just can't do it anymore. Running after her definitely makes the nausea much worse and she just seems more bent on not cooperating the longer it goes on.

And I guess I'm not quite sure what the problem is with wanting her to "agree" to get dressed. We all have to do things we don't like to do sometimes. I don't think this is somehow infringing upon her agency as an individual to have to get dressed so you can go somewhere. Obviously she is "agreeing" or cooperating to do this if she does get dressed. What is wrong with that?

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by OMama

And I guess I'm not quite sure what the problem is with wanting her to "agree" to get dressed. We all have to do things we don't like to do sometimes. I don't think this is somehow infringing upon her agency as an individual to have to get dressed so you can go somewhere. Obviously she is "agreeing" or cooperating to do this if she does get dressed. What is wrong with that?

Nothing, except that its not working. She is too young, IMHO, to be able to make the connection very well that if she does something in the present, it will lead to something fun in the future. Particularly something far enough away from the present like being at IKEA.

If you want to try to teach the connection between getting dressed in order to do something in the future that she would like, and you want her to eventually choose to get dressed, you might have to make a consistent morning ritual where NOTHING fun happens, from the moment she first wakes up, until she is dressed. Look, your breakfast is waiting here for you! We wear clothes to the table. Let's get dressed and eat! The consequence for getting dressed is immediate, its in front of her, she can see it, and perhaps that will help her to choose getting dressed.

I doubt it, though. There's something about 1-3 year olds and clothing that just doesn't mix. And withholding breakfast til she is dressed might seem harsh, not to mention she might be dirty from breakfast and need to change again. Not too many children really like getting dressed at that age. My DD hates it. I do the chase thing, playfully. The talking diaper and the talking shirt and the talking pants... I understand you are tired and nauseated and doing these things is hard for you right now. You just got to get through these next few months. Maybe she could go out in her pajamas if she will not dress. Or dress her in something at night that might work for the next day, so there is less of a battle (just a diaper change). I don't know how many times DD and I have gone grocery shopping first thing in the morning with her still in her pajamas.

Or have DH dress her before he goes to work. Keep the shoes in the car and put them on while she is still strapped in her carseat in the parking lot.

[junebugmidwife]

Something that has worked well for us lately with our newly-two DS is in his tired, frazzled after-bath meltdown (if we're having one, which we frequently are) is to use a stuffed animal to 'help' him get a diaper on and dressed. It totally defuses the situation. "Let's go see what otter is doing. Otter can help us get dressed" To which he suddenly comes back to the task at hand: "Otter? Otter helping." Then otter 'holds' the clothes and 'talks' to him until he is dressed and ready for a bedtime story. We also have a more confined space to work with--shut the bedroom door and work within that area.

[LynnS6]

Two is too young for delayed consequences. They just don't get it. (That's why time outs don't work at this age either -- they can't link the "crime" and the "punishment".)

The doll 'helping' technique works well for us sometimes. Other times, not.

Thoughts:
1. Give warnings. Yes, she'll say no, but it works fairly well once you get it established. "Maria in two minutes, we're going to get a new diaper." "NO!" (ignore). In 2 minutes, then position yourself strategically next to her so she can't run away, and say "it's time for a new diaper." "NO!" "Do you want to walk or am I going to help your body?" (She writhes on the ground as if being tortured.) "Oh, it looks like I'm going to help you today.

2. Can your partner get her dressed before leaving?

3. Does it matter what she wears to Ikea? How about just getting the diaper changed. Or putting her to bed in clothes that she can just wear the next day. (If you/your partner changes her into sweats and a shirt at bedtime, they'll be clean the next day.) Then all you have to worry about is the diaper.

4. Stay home and chill. No pregnant mom who's throwing up really needs to go to Ikea right now, does she?

[maya44]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

Two is too young for delayed consequences. They just don't get it. (That's why time outs don't work at this age either -- they can't link the "crime" and the "punishment".)

The doll 'helping' technique works well for us sometimes. Other times, not.

Thoughts:
1. Give warnings. Yes, she'll say no, but it works fairly well once you get it established. "Maria in two minutes, we're going to get a new diaper." "NO!" (ignore). In 2 minutes, then position yourself strategically next to her so she can't run away, and say "it's time for a new diaper." "NO!" "Do you want to walk or am I going to help your body?" (She writhes on the ground as if being tortured.) "Oh, it looks like I'm going to help you today.

2. Can your partner get her dressed before leaving?

3. Does it matter what she wears to Ikea? How about just getting the diaper changed. Or putting her to bed in clothes that she can just wear the next day. (If you/your partner changes her into sweats and a shirt at bedtime, they'll be clean the next day.) Then all you have to worry about is the diaper.

4. Stay home and chill. No pregnant mom who's throwing up really needs to go to Ikea right now, does she?

I think each one of these thoughts may rise to the level of genius.

My only other suggestion, if the playfullness does not work (and it seems like you have suggested it). is to do what works for most older children who you can't deal with physically any longer (for example by gently picking up and moving, or helping to get dressed):

STAND AND WAIT.

What you do is go into a mode that is not angry but rather slightly bored. She runs and you follow.

You repeat in a voice so dull it could put someone to sleep "You need to get dressed because I have to go to the midwife."

This is said repeatedly and in response to anything she says.

You are an unrelenting presence. You are like someone waiting for an elevator. You are not going anywhere until it comes (i.e., until she gets dressed).

You are not moving. If she moves you will follow but not in a way that engages but rather bored again.

This might work

[OMama]

Those are great suggestions! Thanks!

I was thinking more about it this morning and I realized that I could give her a time limit -- just like when we are at the park or at a friend's house and we need to leave soon. I know she enjoys running around naked after our shower (I do manage to dry her off first). Maybe if she has a little more time to do this first than what I have been giving her, it will be easier. I also thought about trying to get her dressed in a smaller space. I get dressed in the closet. Maybe I could close the door and we could both get dressed in there.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by MAMom

I like the idea of sometimes dropping it, and trying again later, BUT that isn't realistic most days for us. I have been trying to get into a routine of doing those 4 things (diaper, dressed, teeth & face) even on days that we don't have to leave the house, just so it sets the expectation. And some days we really DO have to be somewhere at a particular time (vs. just getting dressed to be able to go out to the park), and don't want to struggle with DS.

I think kids know when things really matter vs when it doesn't. I think trying to get those things done in a routine way, even when its not necessary, is setting someone up to "fail."
The more I cooperate with ds, the more he cooperates with me

For face washing, let him wash his own face. When my ds doesn't want me to wash his face, I tell him to do it himself. He does a pretty good job of washing his own face. Sometimmes I have to point out a spot he missed or something.

Originally Posted by maya44

You repeat in a voice so dull it could put someone to sleep "You need to get dressed because I have to go to the midwife."

yeah, that.
I've noticed that the more insistent dp gets (or me, but I really work on my tone of voice) the more ds dissents. Especially watch saying "you/we have to..." that phrase in particular seems to lend itself to a more and more frantic tone of voice on your part. And more and more resistance on dc's part.

[Yooper]

This is a battle you do not need. I would either dress dc in suitable clothing the night before or simply ask dc if they were ready to go in whatever state of dress he/she was in. Bring along the clothing. Go to the store and change in the parking lot. Maybe dc would like to pick out his clothing? Maybe he/she is ready to try and put things on themselves. How about a getting dressed song that is silly. Or maybe dc could put a piece of clothing on you then you for his/her over and over. Goof around and present clothing that is way too small or silly to wear.

Yes, it should be simpler than all of this, but I am guessing the more you dig your heels in, the further your dc is going to do the same. Try backing off with some of the alternatives listed in this post and others. There is a good chance that it will become a non-issue pretty quickly.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by OMama

Those are great suggestions! Thanks!

I was thinking more about it this morning and I realized that I could give her a time limit -- just like when we are at the park or at a friend's house and we need to leave soon. I know she enjoys running around naked after our shower (I do manage to dry her off first). Maybe if she has a little more time to do this first than what I have been giving her, it will be easier. I also thought about trying to get her dressed in a smaller space. I get dressed in the closet. Maybe I could close the door and we could both get dressed in there.

All sound like great ideas. My absolute most effective parenting tool is our kitchen timer. I set it and as I do, I tell my kids what is going to happen when it goes off. It gives them some warning, me a fixed amount of time, and then I'm not the random 'enforcer' suddenly announcing it's time to leave. (If we're out and there's no timer, the 5-3-1 minute system of warnings does something similar.) So set it for naked time, set it for when you need to leave, clean up time, lunch time,......

And I like the idea of a smaller space. Our 2 year old is still dressed on the changing table precisely because it contains her until we are done. Even dressing her on the bed becomes a big struggle.

[rainbowmoon]

my 2yo throws a fit most mornings when getting dressed too. it is so irritating to me, especially when we have to be somewhere! I am so sick of fighting with him to get dressed! and there is no reasoning with him or consequences. he doesn't get it at all. he actually thinks it's quite a fun game to have me chase him down but frankly it is quite annoying and tiring to me. I actually do the whole trying/pretending to leave thing and that does work some of the time at least! I am going to try a few of these suggestions and see if they will help. thanks for posting!

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by Deva33mommy

I think kids know when things really matter vs when it doesn't. I think trying to get those things done in a routine way, even when its not necessary, is setting someone up to "fail."
The more I cooperate with ds, the more he cooperates with me

For face washing, let him wash his own face. When my ds doesn't want me to wash his face, I tell him to do it himself. He does a pretty good job of washing his own face. Sometimmes I have to point out a spot he missed or something.


yeah, that.
I've noticed that the more insistent dp gets (or me, but I really work on my tone of voice) the more ds dissents. Especially watch saying "you/we have to..." that phrase in particular seems to lend itself to a more and more frantic tone of voice on your part. And more and more resistance on dc's part.

this makes perfect sense!

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Yes, it should be simpler than all of this, but I am guessing the more you dig your heels in, the further your dc is going to do the same. Try backing off with some of the alternatives listed in this post and others. There is a good chance that it will become a non-issue pretty quickly.

Definitely. Just about the only issue in our house that I haven't just "let go of" at one point or another is toothbrushing. I can't bring myself to let it go. And yep, that's the only issue that we have trouble with. He's cooperative on everything else (generally- every once in a while he dissents, but I just let go of it, and it becomes a non issue).

And to the other pp, don't chase your ds to get him dressed. Unless it is really a *game* that the two of you are playing together, and it is known that once ds gets caught that he will get his shirt on, or whatever.
Wait until he comes back to you. That might take a LOT of patience on your part. Like, it could take all day. lol. Especially now that its become an issue for him. When there isn't anywhere that you have to be, let ds have control over the dressing decisions.
Or, watch him closely, and try to calm yourself and be aware of when he would be the most agreeable to getting dressed. Then just go and do it. Do it with the full expectation that he will be ok with getting dressed (not that you expect him TO be ok with it. Expect that he *will* be ok with it). With no "we have to," no stress, just "I'm putting your shirt on." If he dissents, then you were wrong about him being agreeable Try again later.

[rainbowmoon]

thanks Becky! I know I tend to make a bigger deal of it than I should (I just get SO irritated with him over this!) alot of times I don't even get him dressed because it's not worth it but it's when we have to be somewhere it's a problem! I know he senses my irritation though so I will work on that! thanks again.