Advocacy in the UK

[Revamp]

http://www.gilgalsoc.org/

:

[LavenderMae]

The people who put that site together are just f'in sick.

I will tell my son all about circ and why we left his penis exactly the way it was meant to be. Damn straight he'll know what is done to so many babies and why it's wrong.

[Revamp]

Apart from the obvious the most disturbing thing about this Society to me is that it is based in Britain...

[LavenderMae]

I actually had assumed it was based in the US.

[Revamp]

It's office is located in London, most perplexing considering we do not really practice RIC at all. Rather worrying actually...

[tireesix]

Very worrying.......:

[kxsiven]

From wikipedia;

"Gilgal is a place name in the Hebrew Bible. The Bible explains the name as being in memory of the Circumcision of the Israelites on that spot (Joshua 5:9) - removing the reproach of Egypt. This etymology, however, is most likely to be a folk etymology, since although Gilgal sounds like Gallothi, which is Hebrew for I have removed, a more accurate translation of Gilgal is circle of standing stones."

I think this society is an insult to stones. It goes exactly to the same cathegory with Acorn, circlist and all those sick Yahoo groups.

This sniplet is from http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/fetish-c.htm

""What turned me off the whole circumcision scene was to read a report recently about a bunch of men nursing erections as they watched a shrieking baby having his foreskin cut away. When I contemplate the perfection and symmetry of my little boy's body, including his penis, I feel a sense of pride at having produced such a beauty, and I shudder that there are perverts, like I describe, out there, who would actually take pleasure in marring his perfection."
From a letter from Ms. A. C. Herts,
The Acorn [Society Newsletter],
Issue No. 1 1992, p. 10 "

Now - do a search with words Gilgal&Acorn together.

It is all same bunch of people getting high from circumcision - I would not care if they cut out their own penises - but amongst them there are people who like child circumcisions.

These same people circle around internet, on PARENTING message boards, advocating circumcision to parents. They host circ support boards and yes, they wanna know how tight your son's circ exactly was etc.

Oh and I bet my next months paycheck that they are watching this site too - wishing they could post. I have read their bullsh*t for 7 years and I know them.

Nothing - absolutely nothing else can possible make me more angry than people who seek sexual pleasure from children.

[LavenderMae]

Originally Posted by kxsiven

Nothing - absolutely nothing else can possible make me more angry than people who seek sexual pleasure from children.

I totally agree. It makes me sick.

[jessjgh1]

Gilgal Society comes up on support boards & debate boards all the time.

Parents think it is a legit source.

Idea on how to refute this???? Can't immediatly say that this is a front for circumfetish, as tempting as that would be, because I just can't back it up and come across as being ridiculous.

Acorn I think is a bit more obvious, but it has been a while since I surfed aroudn the 2 sites. It is not an easy task.

Jessica

[Revamp]

They make painstaking attempts to conceal their website as "Mainstream" advice, despite the fact that they are based in Britain where such information has either not been given for decades or (for the vast majority of it) ever at all.

It is also highly convincing and its usage of subjective interspersed with false objective can be most effective, I even almost believed some of the stuff in their sex section earlier today.

Accordingly a complete and thorough refutement seems in order, point by point, page by page. It is quite a challenge, perhaps one worth throwing open to the forum?

[kxsiven]

It's all the same 'merry go round'-gang. ICIRC is sponsored by Gilgal and so on. They are all linked and chained.In a quick search in Yahoo, MSN and some Europian based groups I found over 400 discussion groups related circumcision. Some of these are ofcourse pro-intact sites&restoring sites(and what is really good is that there are much more of these groups than few years ago when I last time did this search).

Circ fetishism is around the world but what is really a riddle is why so many of them are based in England? You can find the connections if you can stomach to follow the trails.

Between adults, fetish-plays are OK, I really do not care but this kind of stuff makes me feel violent;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3227734.stm

From the article;

....Police who had to sift through the images described it as the worst material they had ever seen.....

.....One of the most appalling images showed the non-medical circumcision of a boy estimated at six to seven years old....


------------

And I can't help but wonder what makes doctors to start a business like this?

http://www.circumcision-agency.com/index.html


A sidenote, something I never thought before(It is so easy to just think that ALL doctors are good people?).

From http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/price2/;

Groups such as the Acorn Society, the Gilgal Society, and the Cutting Club openly admit to a morbid fascination with circumcision to the point of sado-masochistic fetish. These groups advertise that doctors are among their members. There are those on the Internet who discuss the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction and about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions. Furthermore, there are anecdotal accounts of doctors becoming sexually aroused when circumcising boys.(17) Circumcision certainly provides an opportunity not only to handle boys' penises without the condemnation that a sexual assault (in the sense that phrase is normally used) would attract, but also the opportunity to exercise power over another human being, to alter the penis and to control it and the boy's future sexual life.(18)

(17)Foley JM. The unkindest cut of all. Fact 1966;3(4):2-9.(July 1966).
(18)18. As an example of this pathology, I received, in September 1995, an email from a member of the Acorn Society in Britain, a semi-underground, sado-masochistic, homosexual fetishistic circumcision ring that actively recruits teenage boys for its "rituals." The writer had read a cover article in their magazine which, without my knowledge or permission, "published" a post that I had sent to an Internet Newsgroup. My post contained a transcription of the manufacturers' instructions on the use of the Plastibell circumcision device. The writer of the email had found my post highly erotic and enquired (in vain) whether I would provided him with more such material so that he could masturbate over it. Further examples of this psychopathology have been collected and presented on the following www page: http://www.datasync.com/SexuallyMuti...d/fetish-c.htm
(note; new address is http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/)

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by Revamp

It's office is located in London, most perplexing considering we do not really practice RIC at all. Rather worrying actually...

Despite it's seemingly omnipresence on the internet, Gilgal, Acorn, Roundheads and Cavaliers, Circlist and all of the others are a very small group of individuals numbering probably less than 2 dozen. Research will show that they come back to a single leader in England, Vernon Quaintiance. There is no office. Quaintance runs it out of his home. By sheer deception, they make it appear they are a much larger group with chapters around the world and medical experts on staff and none of it is true.



Frank

[Revamp]

Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking

Despite it's seemingly omnipresence on the internet, Gilgal, Acorn, Roundheads and Cavaliers, Circlist and all of the others are a very small group of individuals numbering probably less than 2 dozen. Research will show that they come back to a single leader in England, Vernon Quaintiance. There is no office. Quaintance runs it out of his home. By sheer deception, they make it appear they are a much larger group with chapters around the world and medical experts on staff and none of it is true.

One must hope that the group's activities are curtailed once he becomes deceased...

Thank you for your informative posts Kxsiven and Frank, if there was ever a British organisation to match Combat 18 in raw evil then this is the one.

[jessjgh1]

Does anyone have the direct link... it doesn't come up...

(This was from references at http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/price2/)
15. For a mild introduction to the world of fetish circumcision and the recruitment of teenage boys for such purposes by the Gilgal Society under the guise of "medical advice," see: International Circumcision Information Reference Centre http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~vernon/ICIRC/index.html


BTW, would anyone guess that Vernon is someone like Tony or just the trolls that circulate?

Jessica

[kxsiven]

International Circumcision Information Reference Centre (ICIRC)
www.circinfo.com/

Sponsored by Gilgal society.

[Revamp]

Vernon is someone I know nothing of but a charismatic leader of pain-inflicting perverts is rarely a pleasant sight.

Do you know the very worst thing about CircInfo? I first found it via a link in The Guardian in the link section of an otherwise fairly anti-article under the description of "No-nonsense British site".

[jessjgh1]

I meant a direct link to: "...for a mild introduction to the world of fetish circumcision and the recruitment of teenage boys for such purposes by the Gilgal Society under the guise of "medical advice,"

Is there a specific story or subarticle that this was referring to?? The people that NEED to figure this out are not going to look around and find the fetish stuff, they will just see the top page and all the doctors credentials and believe all the crap.

I know there was another website that sold videos (adults), but the people I'm talking about would just assume that the video was a medical promo-type video. So even though that set off alarm bells for me, it is not going to set them off for a person who is not already skeptical.

So I'm looking for something that is obvious enough that a pro-circ person would look at it and go, "OMG that is sick". And then hopefully distrust the rest of the website- at the very least.

Jessica

[Revamp]

CIRCList is the site that sold videos, if you wish to discredit them then give some links to the videos of Turkish circumcisions on 12 year olds that they have, those are pretty grotesque and seem fairly blatantly pornographic in nature rather than informative.

CircInfo is far more subtle though, as I said their true motive is always carefully concealed.

[Islay]

I will give just one name:

Jake

Those of us here who 'know' him will understand.


Christopher

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

BTW, would anyone guess that Vernon is someone like Tony or just the trolls that circulate?

Jessica

It wouldn't really surprise me that Tony is actually Vernon. Vernon's been around a long time and Tony is a 70ish man and is the picture of what you would imagine as a pedophile. As far as I know though, Vernon doesn't post on parenting boards.



Frank