Thinking Out Loud: Should ill people have babies? - Page 2

[charmander]

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[Jilian]

Originally Posted by maxmama

We're all likely to die at some point, and no one can say when that will be. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow (very likely, given our crappy drivers). And who doesn't have a genetic disorder, if you include a family history of cancer/heart disease/depression?

I agree. Although, I would not try to get pregnant if I were on my death bed. If a doctor told me "you have X amount of time to live" then I would not have a baby. But If I were just having health issues that could be resolved then I may think about TTC. I could not imagine being told that I should NEVER get pregnant. Some women are just meant to be mothers, it is in their heart.

How sad would it be if this woman were to live 80+ years and never get pregnant because a few people told her it was a bad idea. Without knowing all the facts, it is hard to say. If this woman has a really hard time caring for herself then maybe she should wait a little while before TTC. Anxiety is no reason for avoiding pregnancy. There are natural ways to deal with anxiety. I'm not sure about the tumors you mentioned, are they life-threatening?

This is a really tough question. My heart goes out to this woman because I could not imagine being in her place.

[AnditheBee]

Originally Posted by Jilian

Some women are just meant to be mothers, it is in their heart.

That is an excellent and beautiful point. I think this woman may be one of those types. (And I, though I adore my kids, am not, which is part of the reason it seems so unthinkable to me for her to be planning children...but also why I am trying to see things from other angles here in this thread...)

How sad would it be if this woman were to live 80+ years and never get pregnant because a few people told her it was a bad idea.

AFAIK, no one has told her this. Her main concern has been can she have a baby, and she has been told yes, she can. I have no idea whether she has considered whether or not she can be a 24/7 mother...

Without knowing all the facts, it is hard to say. If this woman has a really hard time caring for herself then maybe she should wait a little while before TTC. Anxiety is no reason for avoiding pregnancy. There are natural ways to deal with anxiety. I'm not sure about the tumors you mentioned, are they life-threatening?

I understand all these disorders have been with her a long time and things probably won't get better. The tumors are on her liver and spleen (bad organs for tumors), and she has to be checked regularly to make sure there is no cancer...some doctors think it is only a matter of months or years before it appears. The heart problem keeps her from working and exerting herself (again, she needs help going up the stairs...doesn't sound like someone who can keep up with a toddler to me). There are also severe lung problems as well. To me, this seems like a great deal of ill health for one so young...

This all makes me think of my sister, who is in her 50s now and post-menopausal. She never married and never had kids, and is one of the most naturally nurturing, mothering people I have ever met. All she ever wanted in life was to get married to a good Christian man and have children. However, she never met the right guy and remained without children. She was 19 when I was born so I was the closest thing to a child she ever had. It's a great tragedy to me that she, of all people, never got to have kids. This whole situation makes me think of that unfairness...It will be another tragedy if this woman never has children...but also possibly a tragedy if she does.

As for my friend, I have approached the issue as posing questions to him, so that he can make sure he is considering all the issues and being honest with himself. The posts here have helped me clarify the questions, and I thank you all for your responses. I can only wait and see what happens, now.

[pandora665]

I'm not sure how to respond to this thread.

I have a disease which, as of yet, has been undiagnosed. It involves cyclic fevers, extreme fatigue at times, and some clotting issues. The most likely cause is lupus, although I have been testing negative for that for 4 years. Because of the clotting disorder, I'm a high risk pregnancy, and on heparin shots 2x/day to keep the placenta from clotting off.

I have been working a job that was approximately 50-60 hours/week on my feet, which was not good for me in some ways (especially pregnant), but did keep me quite active. I walked about 2-4 miles/day in the job. My husband and I decided that I should leave this job for my 3rd trimester of pregnancy and while raising an infant. Once she's a little older, I will work part time at most until she's at school.

I was on 3 unsafe (category C) meds for fatigue before TTC, which I stopped 3 months prior to going off the Nuvaring, and found alternates (including Tylenol occasionally and continuing an antidepressant (SSRI) until my positive pregnancy test. I was feeling my best I'd felt in 4 years when we started TTC. It was the best (and possibly the only) time in my life to have a baby.

Do I worry that my disease will get worse? Yes

Do I worry that I won't be as good of a mommy as I would have been if I were never sick? Yes.

Do I feel like running around after a toddler all day will wear me completely out, not to mention no uninterrupted sleep for at least a year with an infant? Yes

Am I willing to not be a mommy because of my illness? No.

Do I feel that my child will be negatively affected by my health issues? I desperately hope not.

Do I still feel I may be a better mom than some people whose "right" to have children is never questioned? Yes

I feel that even if I were to die from this disease (a very remote possibility, given that even if it were lupus (which it is not), people survive for many, many decades with that disease), my DH would be a great father, and my parents would help him raise her like they raised me... which, I generally feel was good. If I were to die in a plane crash or an auto accident, would the same rules still apply? Yes

P.S. my mother and maternal grandmother both have clinical depression, for which they are on antidepressants (neither while they were pregnant, b/c not available at that time), but I'm still glad they both decided to have children...

Perhaps she's a lot sicker than me... maybe she's thought about this even more than me... maybe she's made arrangements for taking care of infants and toddlers that I haven't even thought of. Maybe her DP is even more supportive than mine (although I'm not sure that's possible)

I know that I have made choices in my life (before I got sick) to ensure that I could be a mom, including changes in career choice. My rheumatologist and other docs started asking if and when I planned to have a child, and said it would be safe to have a baby and raise it. They have said that especially given my lack of a diagnosis, the possibility of getting worse is less than or equal to the possibility of getting better. Life is full of uncertainty... you learn that very early on in the course of any chronic illness.

The character from Steel Magnolias had type 1 diabetes, a condition which can be worsened by pregnancy, and in her case, led to renal failure, a kidney transplant, and it was unclear what finally killed her. Would you require all women with type 1 diabetes to not have children, because that possibility of kidney failure exists? I think you'd have a lot of women who would be a little/lot peeved by that possibility. I personally know women with diabetes type 1, kidney failure, and a subsequent transplant. Their children are well raised, although they know that their mom does go to the hospital more than a normal mommy.

I would hate to be 45, never have gotten better or worse from my illness, and have passed up the chance to bring a happy new life into this world.

I hope this seems sincere... it really is.

Prolly an emotional issue, especially with me being pg right now.... my DH keeps asking me if I'm okay, b/c I am crying writing this. I just feel you need another opinion on this.

I'm not saying everyone thinks about their decision to have kids as much as I did, b/c I know that's not the case. We started thinking about it before we even married, and with my illness, we did put off the decision for about 2 years, until it was clear I could handle some physical stress and still do well.

Thanks for reading this excessively long post,
Erin

[mamaverdi]

I have a baby with numerous problems. I constantly ask myself if I want to do this to another child....if his problems are not issolated....and if I want to do this to myself again. But still, I ask questions for him, and he's only 25 months, about his fertility and how it will be affected (his issues are somewhat urological).

I want him to be able to have children if he wants to.

Anytime this kind of topic comes up, I think of my Women & Politics prof: If you can say who can get reproduce or choose not to reproduce or choose to terminate, you can say who can't and who must.

Scary proposition that.

mv

[Arwyn]

I don't think having children is ever a sensible choice. When thought about rationally, it almost never makes sense. There are too many risks, too much pain, too many costs...

My SIL told me once "$40,000? You can't raise a child on that little money!" ignoring the wonderful jobs all the single and poor mothers of my friends and lover who raised their children on far less than that did.

For every situation in which one person thinks "I wouldn't" "it's impossible" "that's stupid and selfish" there's another person who did, and is a better person for it.

Of course, sometimes having kids really is a mistake. But that's ok too, because mistakes offer us the chance to grow, although we often decline the opportunity.

I don't know if your friend would be wise or right to choose to marry and have kids with this person - neither do you, and neither does he it sounds like. There's no guarantee he'll make the "right" decision - I don't think there is a "right" decision - only that either way, life will be imperfect, he'll experience pain, and he'll have opportunities to experience joy.

His children, should he have any, will have the exact same guarantee. It's all any of us ever get.

[AnditheBee]

First of all, I will say it once more as clearly as I know how: This thread has nothing to do with legal rights to reproduce! It has to do with the moral considerations of having kids when you may not be able to raise them. I never suggested or meant to suggest that people's reproductive rights should be taken away, under any circumstances.

Mamaverdi and Erin, thanks for sharing your experiences. Mamaverdi, that's the heart of the issue I'm getting at...and it seems that there are no clear answers either way. Having children is always a risk--even healthy moms have no guarantee that they will grow completely healthy children, even if they do everything "right."

Erin, the idea to wait a bit before TTC sounds like a good compromise when you want kids but aren't sure about your capabilities. Sounds like you have handled your issues in a wise way...I hope you discover the name for your condition and an effective treatment for it. And congrats to you on the upcoming babe.

Arwyn, thanks for the reminder that having kids is an "illogical" choice all-around--that's true, and it's never completely unselfish, either, no matter one's reasons.

BTW, the quote from Steel Magnolias is "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." It's one of my favorites, but it really does reflect a self-centric view. However, we do have to find ways to meet our own needs as well as those of others...we cannot live completely selflessly or we will lose ourselves.

[ETW]

I guess we are in the sort of situation you are talking about. DH has a chronic leukemia -- it is controlled with medication but the only cure carries a high mortality rate and the medication could stop working. It's not a genetic disease and there's a good chance that he will live a normal lifespan, but it could also go bad at any time. When we conceived DS we didn't even know how DH was going to respond to the medication -- now we know that he is responding well and we plan to have more children. DH's medication has some side effects but he is quite energetic -- he works and is a great dad. It is sad and scary to think that he could die young, but the decision to have children was pretty easy for us. We actually conceived DS earlier than we would have if it weren't for the leukemia since we knew that DH's lifespan might be somewhat limited. We know that we have great family support in case of a medical crisis and that I could raise our children alone if DH were to die. I don't think we are doing our children any grave disservice -- obviously it will be hard on them if DH dies early and when they are old enough to understand his illness they will have to live through scary times as his test results fluctuate, but that is always the risk of loving someone. Bottom line, it's not ideal to be married to someone with a scary illness, and I wish DH didn't have it. But we promised "in sickness and in health" and my options were to live in fear that he might die and never have the children that I so wanted or to live a full life with my husband (including having babies with him) for as long as we have together.

[~pi]

Originally Posted by kerikadi

To quote Julia Roberts character Shelby from Steel Magnolias "I'd rather have 5 minutes of WONDERFUL than a life time of just ok."

I have the same health problem as her character in that movie, and for me, it was a much more complicated decision than that. I think that if I had been in her exact situation (evidence of pre-existing kidney damage, little technology at the time to help achieve a healthy pregnancy, much higher risks than a normal pregnancy as opposed to the slightly elevated risks that I face) I might have decided differently. Fortunately, all looked pretty good for me, so we decided to go ahead.

I don't think my child will suffer significantly as a result of my illness, but it's a possibility. There is also the possibility that I may belong to the weak genetic subgroup and that s/he may develop the disease.

However, even if s/he is negatively affected by my illness, hopefully that will be balanced out by all the positive things DH and I feel that we can offer a child.

It's definitely something I think about, though, especially now as I'm nearing term and starting to get some pressure about induction due to potential placental problems, etc.

It really kills me that no matter how great a job I do at taking care of myself and the babe (and I have been doing a *great* job throughout the pregnancy) his/her experience in the womb just can never be as good as it would be if I didn't have a disease. It really, really gets to me.

[ASusan]

I thought I'd jump in here with my first post.

I have lupus. My DH has had 2 major surgeries for aortic aneurysms - one at age 15 and one at 28. He is now 38 and they are watching another aneurysm.

We have never thought twice about not having children (or a child) because of our health problems. (Of course, we have considered that I may not be able to have a child, but that's another discussion.) We have a large, loving family and plenty of friends. Our child(ren), should something ever happen to us, would be well cared for. In fact, there is no doubt in my mind that any child of ours would be just as well off with our family as they would be with us. (My DH was raised by his uncle until he was 15...and there are numerous other examples of family caring for children who are not their birth children.)

I also believe that children - just like adults - learn from living with people who have illnesses and disabilities. Yes, there are challenges. However, I believe what they learn - compassion, love, and so much more - has the ability to outweigh or even overcome those challenges.

My mother was dx with multiple sclerosis when I was 18 and my sister 7. Neither of us is any worse off for the experience. In fact, my father was profoundly changed by her dx, and my sister grew up in a family environment that was much more positive (than mine was) because, in some part, of my mother's diagnosis.

[sapphire_chan]

I think the real issue here isn't her health problems. It's the fact that her health problems are pushing her to want kids faster than your friend would be ready for them. If he doesn't want kids right away he shouldn't marry *anyone* who does. While lots of people have babies accidentally before they are "ready" and get along just fine, he should only marry this woman if he is prepared to have kids.

Personally, I think that being ready to be a single-parent if the worse should happen is a good idea for anyone know matter how healthy the spouse, but not something that is absolutely required.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog

I just say thank heavens it's a personal choice we're free to make and if it ever becomes otherwise, I'll be scared for all of us, "ill" or not.

:

I am a healthy mother who has an ill husband. We have a combined total of 6 children. I knew my Dh was 'ill' long before we concieved.

[AnneNic]

I have PKD (polycyctic kidney disease). Right now my kidneys function, but who knows when/if that will change. PKD is a progressive disease. It is also genetic. I got it from my father. Each of my children have a chance of having it as well.

When we were ttc our youngest, I had a coworker say it was selfish to have another child since I knew about the kidney disease (I was diagnoised during my older son's pregnancy).

To me, it's not being selfish. Every parent runs the risk of getting sick or seriously injured in someway.

I know that we probably won't be able to have as large of a family as we want. My dr has told us that further decline in kidney function would make it where he would no longer suggest getting pregnant.

Would I try to get pregnant if I knew I was going to die? No of course not. I want to be with my children.

Will I try to get pregnant again even though I have a kidney disease? Heck ya!