Neighbor's dogs and our goats--HELP! - Page 2

[oneotamama]

I was able to order the book Protecting the Gift through interlibrary loan. I'm also getting a different book from Cesar Millan. Not either of the videos you suggested, but a book about correcting dogs behaviors. Unfortunately I'm #11 on the list....Cesar Millan must be quite popular!

[Chicky2]

First of all, I'm sorry you are having to deal w/this very difficult and touchy problem. I understand. I have some great neighbors and we are all very good friends. They have 2 large dogs that over the last 2 yrs have been caught trying to kill our chickens several times. After a stray dog came onto our property and helped himself to THIRTY of our chickens (essentially our whole dang flock), and I killed it in one of our coops, I let our neighbors know that there is a containment law out here. Lots of ppl let their dogs run loose out here, and lots of dogs are dumped out here. Once they get the taste of any kind of livestock, they will be back! My dh helped the neighbors to put up a dog pen, but they kept letting them run loose anyway. They would chase kids on bikes, cars, etc....When i ordered my new batch of chicks this Spring, I let them know that all bets were off after our massacre last year. If their dogs so much as stepped one paw onto my property I would shoot to kill. I hated to tell them that, and I'm sure they hated to hear it, but they understand how important our livestock is to us. We do, afterall, give them free eggs. It is not your responsiblity to deal w/these dogs, other than to shoot them if they are on your property. Please don't think I'm a dog hater. I have 2 wonderful Labs myself, who are trained not to touch our birds. We cannot afford to fence our whole property yet, so my dh dug a trench alllll the way around 4 acres so that we could be responsible pet owners and installed Radiofencing. Maybe you could tell your neighbor about this wonderful product. radiofence.com. It cost us $300 to fence 4 acres, plus the 2 receiver collars. It takes about 2 wks of very consistent training, but the dogs will learn! Who the heck wants to be shocked? I got the stubborn dog receivers, so that the thick neck skin of my Labs didn't get in the way of them feeling the shocks. Now, if we could just locate that silly receiver that my one dog chewed off the other dog....... : LOL! She was trying to free her, I guess. Really, though, this fencing is a great and affordable option!

Good luck!

Oh, and my mom raises Kiko goats and has an Anatolian Shepherd and 2 Great Pyrinese to guard them.

edited to add correct web address....

[Michelle_F]

Re: the electronic fencing, the key words are *consistent training.* Without it, the dogs will eventually go past it--especially if chasing something enticing on the other side. They'll just run right through the shocks because they're in prey drive. They won't come back, though--because they won't have the distraction of chasing something to make them ignore the shocks. When they approach the "fence" they will get the warning shock and that'll be that. The electronic fencing *can* work, especially with low drive or easily trained dogs. Usually when it fails, it's due to lack of consistent training of the dog. Some dogs, however, will barely notice it if they are chasing prey.

Aaron

[Chicky2]

From what we've seen w/our dogs and the dogs that my dh has been exposed to who have the radiofencing (he use to bury phone cable, so that's how we even found out about it and he spoke w/many of the owners), the training consists of 'distraction training', which comes toward the end of the training. We did extra of this part, jic. And w/the training, you teach your dog where the 'safe zone' is, so that as soon as they get their warning beep/vibration, they know to immediately head to the safe zone, instead of keeping on. It definitely would not work for a lazy pet owner! The manual suggested 3 15 minute sessions daily. We did 4, sometimes 5. And our dogs are Labs, so they are considered stubborn, lol. Definitely have to be very consistent.

[UlrikeDG]

Originally Posted by oneotamama

Unfortunately I'm #11 on the list....Cesar Millan must be quite popular!

Cesar's book just came out last month. I own it, but haven't finished reading it. The DVDs came out even more recently than that. If you do get a chance to see any of his DVDs, I highly recommend them (Netflix has a 2 week free trial - I actually joined, because they've got a great selection of documentaries). Really, watching him in action is amazing!

[BabyBumblebee]

This is a really tough problem, I know. I think the electric fence is a great start in terms of protecting the goats, but I'm more worried that what you're seeing in the dogs is pretty clear 'pack' behaviour: and when they're in that mode it's going to be really difficult to alter their habits. Here's my thoughts, fwiw

1) NO treats from you at all - no leftovers or garbage where they can get to it, nothing to reinforce the idea that coming over into your yard is rewarding in any way.

2) Vinegar spray - do you have a SuperSoaker type water gun? They have great range, and are very useful if you want to mark the boundary...

3) Talk with neighbour about the fencing: also, are they fully vaccinated against rabies, in case God forbid they do ever bite you or dk...Your neighbour needs to reinforce HIS boundaries with them - ok, they used to roam your land, but you are now the Alpha animals on that property; he needs to help them to respect that. Radio collars can be a good way to go...

4) (Don't laugh!) Have your dh pee along the boundary...as high up a tree or vertical surface as possible. You need the dogs to know that there is a bigger, more powerful 'dog' around...(my dh loves this bit - he sees it as a challenge )

Good luck!

[Chicky2]

LOL, I forgot about the peeing bit.....My mother writes a newspaper column about country living stuff. She had one column I was almost embarassed about. She mentioned that if ya see her dh out w/a milk jug full of yellow liquid, it's just the pee he'd been collecting to pour out along the front of their property to keep dogs away. EWWWW! My dh does it around the chicken pen. He loves it and my son is learning to copy his daddy. I figure they each save a buck a flush by doing it out there.

[oneotamama]

Our neighbors are poor dog owners. I asked if they were vax'ed and they claim that they are. But otherwise they honestly don't pay much attention to their dogs. I don't really even know why they have them other than that often people just think having a dog is the thing to do, kwim?

These dogs prefer our property over their own. We're more fun I guess. Plus we've got that good compost. Gross in my opinion. I am going to sprinkle some chili powder when I add to it next time; I don't have any cayenne pepper.

We do have a super soaker squirt gun. And vinegar.

The underground fence doesn't seem like it'll work. Like I said, these people don't DO anything w/their dogs. In all seriousness they don't. Yesterday I was able to keep hollering at the 2 mutts and they'd leave, but the black lab acted like I didn't mean her. This afternoon when we go out I'll try the vinegar trick. Yesterday she'd just lay there and paid no attention to me. Then the kids would go and love her up. Talk about mixed messages.:

I don't know if my dh would go around peeing, but I know my kids would! Even my dd tries peeing standing up; something I'm not too fond of But at least if it had a purpose!!