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need advice in making a vax decision  

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for some objective advice on vaccines. I have fully vaccinated dd up until this point on schedule. She has had no observable adverse reactions to them - not even fever. Our pediatrician uses vaccinations without thimersal except the flu vaccine. He has also told us that he rarely sees any reaction at all to vaxs he has given and those he does see are very minor.

I made the choice to vaccinate after doing some research. I have decided to refuse the chicken pox vaccine and the flu vaccine, because I feel it is ridiculous to vaccinate for these since I have had both. I was scared to refuse pertussis because it is going around at two high schools close to our home. (I've never had it so I don't know how sick it makes someone.) The vaccine that I am most afraid of is MMR. However, my MIL (whom I love dearly and trust) almost died from the measles as a young child. My FIL remembers having the mumps and said he was deathly ill. I don't want to put dd through this. All it would take is for her to come into contact with someone who has it or been exposed. I also don't want to put her at risk with the side effects of this vaccine.

Would a delayed schedule help with this? Can anyone offer me any knowledge that I don't have? Thank you.
post #2 of 6
None of the vaccines have been tested for cancer, even though almost all ingredients used are carcinogenic.

I would find out which vaccines your doctor uses and read the package inserts and make sure you are comfortable with the risks.

ie-GBS, diabetes, sterility, etc. All are life-long with no cure.
post #3 of 6
Quote:
I made the choice to vaccinate after doing some research. I have decided to refuse the chicken pox vaccine and the flu vaccine, because I feel it is ridiculous to vaccinate for these since I have had both. I was scared to refuse pertussis because it is going around at two high schools close to our home. (I've never had it so I don't know how sick it makes someone.) The vaccine that I am most afraid of is MMR. However, my MIL (whom I love dearly and trust) almost died from the measles as a young child. My FIL remembers having the mumps and said he was deathly ill. I don't want to put dd through this. All it would take is for her to come into contact with someone who has it or been exposed. I also don't want to put her at risk with the side effects of this vaccine.
My mom thought I was strange for deciding not to vax, and I knew that she had had rubella and mumps and her brother had had measles and mumps, so I asked her what the experience was like for her. She basically said that everyone she knew had those diseases, it was no big deal, and knowone died (like my experience with CP, and in March ds and I had Pertussis; my 2yr ds had some coughing spells, mainly at night, for a few weeks, and I had every symptom in the book, while 6mo pregnant, and we both recovered.).

You said that you made your vax decision after doing research, but then said you are afraid of Pertussis because you do not know how sick you can get from it. I recommend reading a book like "Vaccinations, A Thoughful Parent's Guide" for an overview of the vaccination issue. Included in the book are the symptoms of most "required" VPDs. I decided not to vax after learning about VPDs and the likelihood of complications vs their vaccines and the greater likelihood that my child could have an immediate reaction and/or long term health problems from those vaccines

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Quote:
#1
mrsfatty
Member

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 868

Vaccine Information and Resources
Here are some resources for those who are researching vaccines...I recommend learning as much as you can about the viral/bacterial infections...as well as learning about all you can about the vaccines that are given to "avoid" these illnesses...read the package inserts (I have most of the vaccine inserts listed with their proper illness--I don't have all of them I'm sure--if you want me to find one, just comment and I'll look it up)--especially read the "Contraindications," "Warnings," "Precautions," "Adverse Reactions," and if you decide to vaccinate, ALWAYS get the name of the shot, the manufacturer name, serial # , batch #, date administered, and the name of the person administering the shots--ALWAYS.

***
Recommended Vaccine Schedule:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...nizationa1.htm

Hepatitis B
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/ (cdc’s version of hepatitis A-B-C-D-E information)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/hep/default.htm (cdc’s version of hepatitis vaccine information)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_engerixb.pdf (ENGRIX vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_pediarix.pdf (PEDIARIZ vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_twinrix.pdf (TWINRIX vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../comvax_pi.pdf (COMVAX vaccine package insert: by Merck)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...ombivax_pi.pdf (RECOMBIVAX HB vaccine package insert: by Merck)
http://www.nabi.com/images/prescribi...on_Nabi_HB.pdf (Nabi HB vaccine package insert: by Nabi)
http://www.bayerbiologicalsusa.bayer..._hype_bhep.asp (BayHep vaccine package insert: by Bayer)

Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis (Whooping cough)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/disea...iptheria_t.htm (cdc’s version of diphtheria description)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/s...ub_tetanus.htm (cdc’s version of tetanus or “lock jaw” description)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#dtap (cdc’s version of DTaP vaccine information)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#td (cdc’s version of Td vaccine information)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#tdap (cdc’s version of Tdap)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_boostrix.pdf (BOOSTRIX vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_infanrix.pdf (INFANRIX vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_pediarix.pdf (PEDIARIZ vaccine package insert: by GSK)
https://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF...4757_12.03.pdf (DAPTACEL vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur) (http://www.daptacel.com/)
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/..._4620_4.04.pdf (TRIPEDIA vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur)
http://poisonevercure.150m.com/vacci...rts/baytet.pdf (BayTet vaccine package insert: by Bayer)
http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/dtapled123096lab.pdf (Acel-Imune vaccine package insert: by Lederle)

Haemophilus Influenzae Type b (HiB)
http://www.cdc.gov/doc.do/id/0900f3ec8027b640 (cdc’s version of HiB description and vaccine information)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/s...meningitis.htm (cdc’s version or other meningitis information)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#mening (cdc’s version of Meningococcal vaccine information)
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/...4875_12.03.pdf (Menomune vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur)
http://www.wyeth.com/content/ShowLabeling.asp?id=105 (HiBTITTER package insert: by Wyeth)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../comvax_pi.pdf (COMVAX vaccine package insert: by Merck)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../pedvax_pi.pdf (PedvaxHIB vaccine package insert: by Merck)
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/545_05_4045.pdf (ACTHiB vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur)

Inactive Polio virus
http://www.cdc.gov/doc.do/id/0900f3ec802286ba (cdc’s version of polio description)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...er/default.htm (cdc’s version of SV40 and polio vaccine safety)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#polio (cdc’s version of polio vaccine information)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_pediarix.pdf (PEDIARIZ vaccine package insert: by GSK)
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/..._4305_4308.pdf (IPOL vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur)

Rubeola (Measles), Mumps, Rubella (German Measles)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/s...ub_measles.htm (cdc’s version of measles description)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/s.../sub_mumps.htm (cdc’s version of mumps description)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/s...ub_rubella.htm (cdc’s version of rubella description)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#mmr (cdc’s version of MMR description)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...tenuvax_pi.pdf (ATTENUVAX, Measles only: by Merck)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...umpsvax_pi.pdf (MUMPSVAX, Mumps only: by Merck)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...uvax_ii_pi.pdf (MERUVAX, Rubella only: by Merck)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../mmr_ii_pi.pdf (MMRII vaccine package insert: by Merck)

Varicella (chickenpox)
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/list_varicl.htm (description)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#varicella (cdc’s version of the vaccine information)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...varivax_pi.pdf (Varivax vaccine package insert: by Merck)

Pneumococcal
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#pcv (cdc’s version of PCV description)
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#ppv (cdc’s version of PPV description)
http://www.wyeth.com/content/ShowLabeling.asp?id=134 (Prevnar vaccine package insert: by Wyeth) (http://www.prevnar.com/)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...eumovax_pi.pdf (Pneumovax vaccine package insert: by Merck)

Influenza
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#flu (cdc’s version of influenza vaccine information)
http://www.flumist.com/pdf/prescribinginfo.pdf (fluMist vaccine package insert: by MedImmune)
http://www.fda.gov/cber/label/inflave071405LB.pdf (FluZone vaccine package insert: by Aventis Pasteur)
(Check what’s being given for the current year…)

Hepatitis A
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/menus/vaccines.htm#hepa (cdc’s version of hepatitis a vaccine information)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...a/vaqta_pi.pdf (VAQTA package insert: by Merck)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_havrix.pdf (HAVRIX package insert: by GSK)
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_twinrix.pdf (TWINRIX vaccine package insert: by GSK)

***
Delayed Vaccine Schedules:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html (The following quotations are from the site.)
“Finally, a user-friendly vaccination schedule requires that vaccinations, after the age of two, be given no more than once every six months, one at a time, in order to allow the immune system sufficient time to recover and stabilize between shots.”

“In summary, this is a vaccination schedule that I would recommend:
1. No vaccinations until a child is two years old.
2. No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
3. No live virus vaccines (except for smallpox, should it recur).
4. These vaccines, to be given one at a time, every six months, beginning at age 2:
1. Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell)
2. Diphtheria
3. Tetanus
4. Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells)”

http://www.ibabydoc.com/online/vacchart6.asp

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):
http://vaers.hhs.gov/

What “reportable events” are:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/reportable.htm

Reported Events:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/scripts/data.cfm

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)
http://www.hrsa.gov/osp/vicp/

Additional Information:
Recalled Vaccine Information:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...ls/default.htm

MMWR: Weekly Reports
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (Go down to: “Notifiable Diseases/Deaths in Selected Cities Weekly Information”—and what is displayed is how many cases have been reported so far this year…and how it compares to last year—continue down and there’s more detail as to location)

State laws and exemptions in relation to vaccines:
http://www.909shot.com/state-site/state-exemptions.htm
http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

Alternative Vaccine Information:
http://www.909shot.com/
http://www.*********/
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.vaclib.org/

How a vaccine is made:
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/daily...whatsinvax.htm
post #4 of 6
Here is a copy of a recent post of mine regarding this issue. And the link to the thread.

Quote:
You aren't going to find THE "Right" answer. There is only what you feel is right for you and your family. People believe in different things in which to trust, or to keep them from fear. The journey to discovering what motivates you and upon what premises you make your decisions is an arduous one in parenting. Personally, I have 17 years of critical care experience, and I understand how *unscientific* medical practice and medical science is. True medical care is an Art, as much, if not more than a Science. I have seen so, so many "best practice protocals" subsequently disavowed as having some (previously unknown) danger, AFTER patients have utilized (and suffered from) them. We, the medical people, did *to* people, with all good intentions and full faith in the system of Science. However, science really is quite blind in its research; you can only learn what you are seeking to find. The myopia of separating the mind/body/spirit is a huge aspect of the limitations of medicine.

And we have the System of Medicine, embodied by the (fiscal) monopoly of the AMA. I can only say that if you go to a surgeon, he will use the tools available to him: surgery. If you go to a internist, he will use the tools available to him: pills. If you go to a psychologist: a DSM-whatever diagnosis is utilized. They can only utilize what they know and what they are taught. Unfortunately, what is *taught* isn't necessarily current with what is known outside of their speciality. There is such a specialiation in *parts* of the body that there is no *whole* patient. This isn't a system of *health*, but of illness, disease and deficit focused care.

So, we, medical people, have developed means of dealing with discrete illness and disease, rather than focusing on maximizing the *health* of the whole person. Because we can, because there is a market for 'fixing' a problem, because it is quicker, easier, because if it doesn't work the patient just comes back, and comes back, and comes back. A system that self-perpetuates is not working to eliminate the need for itself.

In regards to vaccines, we, medical people, knew that people were *getting* polio FROM the vaccine for 40 some years, before we changed to an injectable form which cost a slight bit more. For how many years have we, the medical system, injected a known toxin, mercury, into young children in ever increasing frequency and amounts? Oh, they did just remove thimerosal after the incidence of autism has increased from 1:10,000 to 1:500 in just 10 years, highly correllated with vaccine compliance by state. (Oh, but there is no proof that these issues are causitive ). And giving hepatitis vaccine to newborns! Who can't get hepatitis unless they share blood with another infected person? These types of practices, mandated by the CDC are not building credibility that the interest of the *whole* INDIVIDUAL matters. Perhaps there is some "herd immunity" benefit that the CDC is championing. But at the expense of *individuals* with polio, deaths due to hepatitis vaccine, and high mercury contamination, etc.?

So, I have a problem with the System of Vaccinations. Additionally, I am anal; and we actually did the calculations for each disease against which there is a vaccine/. We calculate the risks, taking into consideration the risk of contracting the disease within the US population of 300 million, and the occurance in our young son's age range, and then extrapolating the liklihood, by percentage, of developing the most severe complications (encephalitis, meningitis and death). And the risks were so, so minimal that the uncertain, but untrusted risk of the vaccines was outweighed by the facts of the disease's relative "danger". Basically, it was a crap shoot for the odds of vaccination vs. living with an occasional disease exposure.

But, we maximize our health by many means. And we avoid compromising our health within the health care system. And we are knowledgable about homeopathic, natural and alternative health care and we trust our bodies to be better able to handle the assault of naturally occuring disease, more than we trust our bodies to handle the assault on the immune system of injecting multiple diseases at one time, repeatedly, prior to the full development of the immune system. A whole 'nuther variable is the assault and unknown damage on the developing immune system by the vaccination program before age 2. Science doesn't quite understand all this grey matter (brain and immune system) yet.

The most damning source of information was the CDC's own site. (And their "Pink Book") Their documentation of the actual incidence of disease and the incidence of complications is miniscule for many of the diseases, despite the proclamations of all the dangers of the disease. And the product insert for each vaccine which lists the ingredients, contraindications, warnings, side effects, etc. was informative (and disconcerting). And for those diseases with the most dangerous incidence, the vaccines are very *NEW* and undertested; and the system has failed too many individuals to place our son's life in the manufacture's 'post marketing research' trial. (The actual number of children upon whom they test the vaccines prior to mass vaccination is very small, obviously.) But the manufacturer extrapolates "safety" based upon a short duration of follow up, of only healthy children in the trial. And complications and reactions are notoriously under/unreported. And, and, and....

There are risks to not vaccinating. There are risks to vaccinating. There are no sure bets in life. But, you make your best guess based upon what you choose to believe in.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=polio

Best wishes, Pat
post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the links and information. I have done minimal quick research. I had to do it that way because I didn't know there was a risk to vaccinations unitl I talked with a friend on the day of our appointment. She was the first person I knew who didn't vaccinate. I talked with the pediatrician and though he felt we should vaccinate he said the choice was ours. I was afraid not to. I'm doing more research now, mainly on the upcoming vaccines that she will be getting, since the others have been done and there is nothing I can do now. I'm glad to have found MDC and people who have a parenting style close to mine. Thanks for sharing the information. This will help me make an informed decision.
post #6 of 6
I just notified our pediatrician that we wouldn't be injecting anything into our son until we were more informed about the risks and benefits. And not by only the person standing there with the syringe. Reading the product inserts for the vaccines was informative and disturbing. If your dh is agreeable, I'd have him come along to the visit, this seems to be a more united front. Or postpone the visit until you are comfortable with a decision. The well baby visit is very perfunctory anyway. We decided to wait until ds's immune system was more fully developed before injecting diseases into him. That is around age two. But, once we learned more and more about the ingredients in vaccines we became a non-vaccinating family.

Pat
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