He only cries because we strapped him down - VENT

[roseselene]

Ok, so I'm and RN and I work on a post partum unit and am occasionally assigned to work in the nursery. Virtually all of my coworkers know that I will not participate in circumcisions and will go in and help with them for me while I go do something else.
So, I was at work on Saturday and there was a circ to be done. I called the nurse that was taking care of the mom/baby and told her that I couldn't help with the circ and I needed her to come do that.
She said she would, but kind of looked at me like I was a little odd.
So, anyway, I was in the nursery, - had to stay in there to watch the other babies....the "circ room" is in the nursery but has its own separate door, so they were in there with the door closed.
I could here the baby SREAMING! In fact, I have been around for circs and to be honest, I have "heard" some that really didn't "sound" bad. The baby cried for a tad and then I didn't hear anything (please don't take that statement that I mean that I think its ok -- I'm just trying to make a comparison here) This child was screaming and screaming and screaming...I kept peaking in because I felt this *NEED* to do something, but they were just hovering over this poor child --- doing whatever it is they were doing. And it was taking WAY too long. I have no idea what they were doing. Like I said, I've been in the nursery when circs were being done...the doctor or midwife is in and out..very quick ---this one just went on forever.
I honestly cannot imagine what they were doing.

So anyway, the nurse and the midwife come out of the circ room laughing and they both made a huge point to tell me NUMEROUS times that they baby only cried because he was strapped down and he was not crying at all because of the circ so I shouldn't have been worried. Over and over again...just cried because of being strapped down.
WTH?
I don't agree with circing, I'm very against it in fact....but the doctors that can get in and get out in a brief period of time for the least amount of torture to the baby are at least keeping it short. I just couldn't even believe the amount of time that this took.

Ok, I'm done venting. Sometimes I hate my job.
Amy

[Jillie]

I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Stay strong! Maybe you will get some of the others to question your stance and they can learn from you.

[jessjgh1]

So WTH, it is 'okay' to strap a baby down and let him scream. Next time ask them how long they think it is okay to strap down a hysterical baby and how many parents would be okay with the fact that their child was left that way without comfort, and seeing them laugh about it?

Maybe even don't bring up the circ issue, but tell them that a parent that was in the area looked very concerned- and fortunatly it was NOT the parent of the child in question-- but what if it had been? You would be very concerned that their attitude (laughing when they came out) would have angered the parents. THat is not providing a very high standard of care- the child shoudl have been comforted- and if the person was not ready to do the circ yet, he should not have needed to be strapped down.

I agree with you that different doctors will circumcise in a way that leaves the baby less traumatized-- but having nurse hold the child till they have too, by haivng a good bedside manner and talking to the child/comforting, and using pain relief. And then their are the doctors that have the nurses prep all their morning circs and line them all up to do the surgery one by one- that are not concerned with providing a comforting environment.

I just can't understand why those doctors, concerned so much about minimizing harm can then justify the circumcision-- but I guess they believe they are doing something good- like taking a blood test to analyze to pinpoint a problem- the prick is painful, but the benefits outweigh the pain.

Ugggh.

Jessica

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by roseselene

So anyway, the nurse and the midwife come out of the circ room laughing and they both made a huge point to tell me NUMEROUS times that they baby only cried because he was strapped down and he was not crying at all because of the circ so I shouldn't have been worried. Over and over again...just cried because of being strapped down.
WTH?

I suspect they were feeling guilty about the torturous amount of pain they had caused that child. I suspect they saw you and felt you were aware of it and felt anger toward them and tried to cover it all with a pack of lies.



Frank

[jessjgh1]

Another thing.... ethically isn't there something wrong with assemply line circs... and leaving a child strapped down for 10 minutes to do a consult??

These things would piss me off, even if I had choosen to circumcise, iykwim?

Jessica

[kxsiven]

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[mama in the forest]

Gosh, it makes me sick to think of a midwife coming out of that room laughing about anything.

The whole thing is disgusting.......good for you for insisting on not being part of it!

[gabysmom617]

oh gawd.

i've just given my precious intact baby boy a hug. so glad that i educated myself enough to keep him away from such torture.

[paquerette]

Circ issue aside, it seems like most hospital maternity staff do think it's okay to leave a newborn cry, considering standard procedures for neonatal exams and monitoring and nursery stays and whatnot. So many people think that crying is just what babies are supposed to do and they don't really need to be comforted. That they're just a thing to be managed very matter of factly and clinically.

to the OP. It's good to know that there are at least some people out there with feelings.

[nd_deadhead]

I'm with you, Jessica. We do so much to make our babies' first days pleasant - we swaddle them, keep the lights low, sing them lullabies, rock them - why is it then OK to undress them and strap them to a board??? Even if the operation itself was painless, the trauma of the circumstraint is more than newborns should have to endure.

paquerette, that wasn't my birth center experience at all. I had HELLP toxemia, and an emergency C-section to deliver my twin boys. I was on mag sulfate for 2 days, which made me totally out of it, and I was in the hospital 3 more days after they pulled the IV. Because I was so exhausted - and unable to get myself in and out of bed, much less carry a baby - my babies spent the nights in the nursery, where the nurses rocked them and soothed them as long as possible before bringing them to me to nurse, so that I could sleep. I have a friend who works at the hospital, who sometimes comes in late at night to help the nurses hold babies, and she told me how hard they worked to keep the babies content.

I hate to think that some nurses are so jaded that they no longer have the instinct to comfort a crying baby.

[mamamelia]

i am sweating here just thinking about the little baby crying. can't even begin to imagine what sort of pain that newborn went through.

i'm so glad you take a stand and don't participate in torture. i would give you a big pat on the back if i could see you, but i can't, so please accept my virtual pat.

god those nurse's attitudes makes me SO fricken angry. it's bad enough the torture was proceeded with, and then to laugh at a helpless newborn's cry because they are in agony???? how about some f*cking sympathy?!?!?!?!? gosh i'm gonna start crying here so i'll stop.

[QueenOfThePride]

Ugh... I am so angry. Seriously, I am never setting foot in a hospital unless someone drags me in unconsious and bleeding. You just can't trust healthcare workers. If they can treat a baby like that....

[roseselene]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

I'm with you, Jessica. We do so much to make our babies' first days pleasant - we swaddle them, keep the lights low, sing them lullabies, rock them - why is it then OK to undress them and strap them to a board??? Even if the operation itself was painless, the trauma of the circumstraint is more than newborns should have to endure.

paquerette, that wasn't my birth center experience at all. I had HELLP toxemia, and an emergency C-section to deliver my twin boys. I was on mag sulfate for 2 days, which made me totally out of it, and I was in the hospital 3 more days after they pulled the IV. Because I was so exhausted - and unable to get myself in and out of bed, much less carry a baby - my babies spent the nights in the nursery, where the nurses rocked them and soothed them as long as possible before bringing them to me to nurse, so that I could sleep. I have a friend who works at the hospital, who sometimes comes in late at night to help the nurses hold babies, and she told me how hard they worked to keep the babies content.

I hate to think that some nurses are so jaded that they no longer have the instinct to comfort a crying baby.

I'd have to agree with you here. other than a few nurses -- like the one mentioned in my OP, most of the nursing staff on my unit are very caring and will comfort a baby above getting other things done. OTOH, there was a mother the other day who was tired and didnt' want her baby in her room...she wanted her baby in the nursery. The baby was not sleeping and wanted calmed, but there was a sick baby in the nursery that the nursery nurse *had* to attend to and the mom's nurse explained that unfortunately noone was available to rock the baby. The mom said to just put the baby in the nursery and let him cry because she needed rest.
So, i don't think its hospital staff or anything in particular, I think that there is just a certain kind of people that are ok with a baby crying...and you will find them in all walks of life.
Amy

[Revamp]

As the owner of a foreskin I am feeling, well, borderline violent.

They probably have some reason, perhaps unresponsive to screams or...Maybe, medically unsound or...Something?

Right now this is classified under "Incomprehensible" in the section of my brain devoted to horror.

[roseselene]

Strangely enough, when my coworkers ask me why I don't participate in circs, I explain to them and then they think for a minute, and a good many of them say they agree with me, but they just go along with it because it is part of the norm or routine or whatever. It is sad, because I think that there are more people out there who disagree with circ's but just aren't willing to be activists about it like us. I wish there were more willing to be more activists, because I really have encountered several nurses that feel the same way, but are just not willing to do anything about it.
Amy

[Revamp]

Eh...T'be honest Rose I find them just as reprehensible as the others, if not more so.

To know that you are doing wrong and continue anyway regardless is the sort of thing that let the Holocaust continue, to believe you are doing something wrong because you believe it to be right is only how it started.

[roseselene]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I agree....I just don't know how to make people more passionate about it without alienating them .... you know how sometimes when you badger someone...they will just sort of back away and not listen to anything. Well, then I haven't gotten anywhere with them. So I try to strike a balance between being an "activist" and "trying to maintain a dialogue with people who might otherwise just ignore everything I had to say if I sounded like I was lecturing"

Does that make sense?
Amy

[Intactguy57]

As a proud owner of a forskin it really bothers me to know that most nurses and doctors are just waiting for a chance to cut it off in the name of the norm, it just makes me sick. I just wished that somehow I could return the favor and then see how funny it is to those same nurses and doctors. I would have lost it when they came out laughing. What did the male forskin ever do to any one to deserve this kind of treatment, gosh I feel like I need to hide in the celler for my own sake. I have really learned to dislike most doctors and nurses because of the love of money. Good by evil old forskin, ha, ha, ha, he will be normal now!! "Flame"

[Revamp]

Originally Posted by Intactguy57

As a proud owner of a forskin it really bothers me to know that most nurses and doctors are just waiting for a chance to cut it off in the name of the norm, it just makes me sick. I just wished that somehow I could return the favor and then see how funny it is to those same nurses and doctors. I would have lost it when they came out laughing. What did the male forskin ever do to any one to deserve this kind of treatment, gosh I feel like I need to hide in the celler for my own sake. I have really learned to dislike most doctors and nurses because of the love of money. Good by evil old forskin, ha, ha, ha, he will be normal now!! "Flame"

Ditto.

[roseselene]

Originally Posted by Intactguy57

As a proud owner of a forskin it really bothers me to know that most nurses and doctors are just waiting for a chance to cut it off in the name of the norm, it just makes me sick. I just wished that somehow I could return the favor and then see how funny it is to those same nurses and doctors. I would have lost it when they came out laughing. What did the male forskin ever do to any one to deserve this kind of treatment, gosh I feel like I need to hide in the celler for my own sake. I have really learned to dislike most doctors and nurses because of the love of money. Good by evil old forskin, ha, ha, ha, he will be normal now!! "Flame"

I truly don't believe that there are any nurses that I work with that are "just waiting for a chance to cut it off" I dont' see that as the sentiment where I work. Some peoeple do it because they are uneducated and still think it is a necessary thing, but no one is just waiting with bated breath to get in there and torture a baby. To dislike a nurse for the love of money? I don't get that comment truly. I was venting about one particular situation that happened at work. Not the usual everyday practice of which most of my coworkers are very professional.
I still don't get what you mean by the comment disliking nurses for the love of money
Amy