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The CircInfo/ICIRC Refutement Project  

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I have seen it quite a bit on here, an intactavist tells of a mother who seems to have taken the "Healthy" route and when pressured for evidence taps up a few links to a lovely little site called CircInfo or the "International Circumcision Information
Reference Centre".

I doubt you have never heard of it and been to it before but if so then allow me to spoil your blissful ignorance: http://www.circinfo.com

The thing I loathe most about this site is that I first found it in the links section on the GuardianUnlimited webpage (at the bottom of a predominantly anti article, since this is a UK paper) under the description "No-nonsense British site, mostly pro." (emphasis added)

A quick glance was enough to deduce that only one of those three parts of the description was accurate. This website uses an air of scientific and medical gravitas to flood the read with faux-facts, a deluge so mighty that logic, reason and love of evidence are battered into submission and a few shards of deceit are bound to pierce the mind.

Yesterday I had something of a notion, it occured to me that we might have been taking a rather inneffecient approach. The site is perfect for coaxing those who are leaning the wrong way off the fence due solely to the trust it can develop through its seemingly reasonable tone and its apparent dependance upon facts.

So let us not try and have nearly neutral parents be forced to trace to the source (the nefarious Gilgal Society) and in the process make ourselves seem like absurd fantasists (because this whole thing does indeed seem like an absurd fantasy) since that is precisely the approach they desire and they are in something of an elevated position: their depiction of us as shrill, rabid fanatics contrasted to their dry, scientifically tones.

Instead let us hit them where is hurts, what they claim to base their entire site around, fact.

My vision was an entire alternative webpage, which intactavists could simply post up a link to in response, possibly called something like circmisinfo.org with a full annotation of every statement made showing it to be a falsehood.

As I considered this though the practicalities of money, time and effort and such struck me so let us start off here. Just post up a passage or page from their site with your factual deconstructive commentary and permission for it to be used elsewhere at a later date to assist our cause.

It will be a challenge to cover all or even most of the site but I reckon we are up to it, if I am wrong then I apologise for wasting your time.
post #2 of 26
I only glanced at some of the site but it appears accurate ad against circ.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ok, got the wrong site.

Whoops, I shall edit that.

There we go, I meant .com
post #4 of 26
This site is owned by The Gilgal Society, Vernon Quaintance in particular. Just a description of Quaintance is usually enough to totally discredit the site.



Frank
post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
This site is owned by The Gilgal Society, Vernon Quaintance in particular. Just a description of Quaintance is usually enough to totally discredit the site.



Frank

As is a description of Jake...

Christopher
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
Well, yes, I agree but parents might think that we are making it all up.

Could somebody please attempt the approach I suggested?
post #7 of 26
While we're at it, can we initiate a letter-writing campaign to the Mayo Clinic, to get them to update their circumcision information web page? I don't think they've added anything new since 1980, and it definitely promotes RIC.

The one place I'd like to send parents as a reliable, unbiased site, and it stinks! I just saw (on a debate board) a woman write "Besides, even the Mayo Clinic says there are benefits!"
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead
While we're at it, can we initiate a letter-writing campaign to the Mayo Clinic, to get them to update their circumcision information web page? I don't think they've added anything new since 1980, and it definitely promotes RIC.

The one place I'd like to send parents as a reliable, unbiased site, and it stinks! I just saw (on a debate board) a woman write "Besides, even the Mayo Clinic says there are benefits!"
Mayo Clinic is used very commonly, I have seen a link to it posted prominently on an "Circumcision Care" forum on a large board (i.e. a location for parents to pack together and swat away guilt and convince each other to do it all over again should another boy come along) and it was used only today by a member in a debate.
post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
Alright I shall start the ball rolling, right of you can tell this group has a substantial bias: http://www.circinfo.com/guide_to_decision/index.html

The intact penis looks nothing like that crude illustration, it seems to me to be a play on people's ignorance to suggest that it does as anyone who has actually seen one could only possibly find that picture hilarious or confusing.

Note also the not-so-subtle attempt to make the circumcised penis seem more narrow and diminuitive. In reality it would be the size of the circumsised example plus an additional layer of skin.

Naturally this would not match the content of the text but it is interesting that it would despoil its neutral tone in such a blatant fashion. Perhaps this was some botched attempt at subliminal impressioning?
post #10 of 26
I agree with updating mayo book because isn't the mayo book the one who illustrating circumcision as just 'snipping' with shears ?
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp
I have seen it quite a bit on here, an intactavist tells of a mother who seems to have taken the "Healthy" route and when pressured for evidence taps up a few links to a lovely little site called CircInfo or the "International Circumcision Information
Reference Centre".
Nobody's noticed the comparison between this and CIRP?
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan1097
Nobody's noticed the comparison between this and CIRP?
Elaborate.
post #13 of 26

Clinics updating their infant/child circumcision pages

YOu might want to add the Cleveland Clinic to the list along with the mayo Clinic. It, too, semi-actively promotes circumcision as a procedure for infants and children. Indeed, I think it is probably more pro-circ than is Mayo. I haven't looked at the site for some time, but I recall their blurb saying something like, "For children who may not have gotten circumcised as infants, we offer circumcision by our pediatric urologists." That's pretty pro-circ.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp
Elaborate.
International Circumcision Information
Reference Centre".


It just sounds like they're trying to sound "familiar" and/or official imitating "Circumcision Information Resource Pages" weirdly mixed with "National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers".
post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan1097
International Circumcision Information
Reference Centre".


It just sounds like they're trying to sound "familiar" and/or official imitating "Circumcision Information Resource Pages" weirdly mixed with "National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers".
Ohhhh, well it does sort of now that you mention it. Good point.

But personally I paid more attention to the acronym it produces: I CIRC. Sort of says it all really does it not?
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp
Ohhhh, well it does sort of now that you mention it. Good point.

But personally I paid more attention to the acronym it produces: I CIRC. Sort of says it all really does it not?
Well of course it does! Just like "NOCIRC".
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revamp

The intact penis looks nothing like that crude illustration, it seems to me to be a play on people's ignorance to suggest that it does as anyone who has actually seen one could only possibly find that picture hilarious or confusing.
not to detract from the seriousness of this thread, but that picture is hilarious.
post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan1097
Well of course it does! Just like "NOCIRC".
Except it sounds a little more like a confession than an imperative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homemademomma
not to detract from the seriousness of this thread, but that picture is hilarious.
I concurr!
post #19 of 26
This site is just nuts! http://www.circinfo.com/occupation.html

"Metalworking machinists and Ship's engine room staff get quantities of mineral oils on their hands......" and therefore need to be circed! :

"Actors and musicians work under bright lights which create considerable heat..." .... and therefore need to be circed! ... "Furthermore it is not possible to obtain relief from any irritation whilst on stage." :

Do they really think intact guys go around with a hand in the pants all the time?

Interestingly, they actually sell a list of genital mutillators in the UK. Why? Its hard to find in the UK.

Gilgal Society = Gential Impairment Lovers, Guys Are Looney
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
That seems like an accurate assessment to me...
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