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Any former day care workers think it's GOOD for kids? - Page 4

post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco

I'm not sure what people mean by saying, "It's not good, but not damaging."
I guess that's where I stand...I can't imagine how anyone would argue that children are better off in daycare than they would be at home with an actively involved parent. I think that children aren't harmed by long hours in daycare if the DCP can provide a high degree of love and attachment that is equal or better than the child gets at home.

I think that in good centers the children enjoy themselves and are so busy having fun that they don't miss their parents or notice the lesser degree of emotional commitment from thier teachers. In the very best care there is a strong attachment between children and their providers and children benefit for the emotional bond as they would from being cared for by someone in their extended family.
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by natashaccat
I guess that's where I stand...I can't imagine how anyone would argue that children are better off in daycare than they would be at home with an actively involved parent. I think that children aren't harmed by long hours in daycare if the DCP can provide a high degree of love and attachment that is equal or better than the child gets at home.
.
people, including the US government, argue just that all the time. Even some mommys here at MDC
post #63 of 104
Oddly enough, I think children with strong parental attachments can be trusted more than ones with strong peer group attachments and peer group attachment is something that should happen under direct parental supervision. I don't see any reason at all 3 and 4yos need to be developing personalities that are based in interacting primarily with other 3 and 4yos, except to make them more easily manipulable as adults.
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Also, people calling daycare "schoool". I once was in a conversation iwth a woman who said her sone had been going to "school" since he was 1 month old!!!! I think sometimes these people aer trying to assuage their guilt by making it seem "Education" therefore beneficial to the baby.
And I think people who don’t use child care state this very opinion, which I’ve heard numerous times before, as a way to subtly sneer at those who use child care. The fact is, the culture of many child care programs is to refer to themselves as a “school” and to the workers as “teachers.” A big reason for this is to reinforce the professionalism of the employees in considering their role as more than simply babysitting. I really don’t see how this can be a bad thing. Many mothers on this site refer to themselves as their child’s “teachers” even when the child is very very young, and even if the mother is not a certified or credentialed “teacher.”

I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.
post #65 of 104
No one is denigrating the work; we're mocking the use of grandiose language. It's like calling garbagemen "sanitation engineers" - it's relevatory of your own discomfort with what you actually do to need to give it a professional title. Not all jobs, even important ones, are professions. The professions are competitive, peer-reviewed, and hold their members to high standards which are determined by outstanding members of the profession. The problem is that people don't respect plain work, not laughing at how people who don't respect themselves try to acquire the mana of the professions by just calling themselves something different. I worked in childcare for a long time; I value childcare; I don't call it education.
post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesday
I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.
WOW...really well said! That's what I've been thinking but couldn't find the words.
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesday
And I think people who don’t use child care state this very opinion, which I’ve heard numerous times before, as a way to subtly sneer at those who use child care. The fact is, the culture of many child care programs is to refer to themselves as a “school” and to the workers as “teachers.” A big reason for this is to reinforce the professionalism of the employees in considering their role as more than simply babysitting. I really don’t see how this can be a bad thing. Many mothers on this site refer to themselves as their child’s “teachers” even when the child is very very young, and even if the mother is not a certified or credentialed “teacher.”

I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.
Yeah I agree with you there...one of the biggest struggles DCP face is lack of respect, not nescessarily from parents but from socitey in general. Their work isn't valued and they don't get appropriate training because there is no funding, I worked with teachers with master's degrees who were being paid only a few $ more than their HS student co-workers. It makes staff turnover really high and the children suffer. How do you explain to a 1 yo that the person he has spent everyday of the past six months has moved on to another job.

I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama
The professions are competitive, peer-reviewed, and hold their members to high standards which are determined by outstanding members of the profession.
Funny, this describes the accredited child care center that I'm affiliated with. The teachers who work there are trained child care professionals.

Don't like child/day care centers??? Don't use them, but why the need to denigrate the entire profession???
post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama
I value childcare; I don't call it education.
I disagree with you there, I think that any distinction between the two is an artificially imposed social distinction that doesn't truely reflect how children learn. Is a child who learns to read by being read to by his parents any less educated than the child who learns via phonics drills in a "school"?
post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by natashaccat
I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.
Well I disagree with you there--I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.
post #71 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesday
Well I disagree with you there--I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.
Of course that would be a better solution...but that seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to me as a possiblility.
post #72 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by natashaccat
Of course that would be a better solution...but that seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to me as a possiblility.
Yeah, I know . I just cringe whenever I hear about activism or legislation to better fund childcare (or legislation to promote moms pumping in the workplace, for that matter) because I think the more effort/funding that goes into formally removing the obstacles of mamas of young babies being at work, the harder it makes it for a mama to stay with her baby.

I forget where I read this...but in some of the European countries where governments fund universal preschool from a very early age, it is considered VERY unusual and really kind of socially unacceptable for a woman to SAH past the officially sanctioned maternity leave. So the moms are able to stay home until kids are one or two (good) but then there is a lot of pressure to return to the workforce (not so great IMO). Combine that particular dynamic with the fact that in the US 6-12 weeks leave (usually unpaid!) is considered more than sufficient, in fact a GENEROUS amount of leave, and wow! I could really see people facing unbelievable economic and social pressures to get back to work outside the home even when their infants are still VERY young.
post #73 of 104
Thread Starter 
These are great topics for other threads.
post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesday
I just cringe whenever I hear about activism or legislation to better fund childcare (or legislation to promote moms pumping in the workplace, for that matter) because I think the more effort/funding that goes into formally removing the obstacles of mamas of young babies being at work, the harder it makes it for a mama to stay with her baby.


This is THE reason I didn't vote for Dean during the Democratic primaries.
post #75 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWine
This is THE reason I didn't vote for Dean during the Democratic primaries.
I confess I don't really know what Dean's position was on the issue, seeing as how I was in working/pumping/night-nursing hell for all of 2004, and didn't have a functioning brain cell left over to pay much attention to the presidential campaigns. That experience is largely what shaped my opinion that mamas and babies needs are not adequately met merely by the existence of "high quality child care" and workplace lactation programs. I had a SAHD caring for our child and a private office where I could pump at my leisure. It still sucked horrifically.
post #76 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex67
My aunt and uncle run a chain of very high end day care and after school care centers. .
Gosh, I hope that wasn't the chain that I worked for. I worked in several of their centers across Northern Virginia and, at every center, both staff and directors blatantly made fun of children who were different. There was *absolute* structure from age 3 and up, no room for individual expression or developmental differences. There was frequently semi-subtle racism, but at one center in particular one of the teacher made very blatant remarks about those "annoying little black monkeys". Her daughter was the director. It was miserable. Yes, there were kids who were dropped off at 6:30 and picked up at 6:30, but what happened within those hours was inexcusable. There were good teachers, but they seldom lasted very long because it was so depressing and any attempt toward change was met with derision. It's one of the largest, most popular chains in this area and, to me, represents the worst of day care. Any possible good was completely outweighed by the overwhelming negatives.
post #77 of 104
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I wanted to pipe in that IME
having a caregiver who is always sober and a day that is based on predictable routines is a benefit for some children.
post #78 of 104
Quote:
I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.
Honestly, I think that the childcare industry is what needs to step up and set the bar if anything is really going to happen. Competition breeds success and better work, not government regulations. I see government regulations get broken at the YMCA all the time. Now if parents had the daycares competing for their business, that would improve them.
post #79 of 104
I have been reading this thread with interest. I have never worked in a daycare. My children attended a daycare center. My dd is completing her Kindergarten year there next month.

I did my research. Am an involved parent. The center they attended has very low staff turn-over. Both children had the same teachers through their years there. I talk to my kids. Once they are talking they can tell you about their day and you can address what they tell you.

I call it a school and the staff teachers. Not because I am trying to assauge my underlying guilt but because that is how they refer to themselves. The infants are getting an education. The education they would be getting at home. They are learning to sit, pull up, get a toy, babble & coo. Instead of doing it with a parent they are doing it with the day care provider.

I have no doubt that some days-staff members have bad days. Just like a parent does. Some staff stink at their job. Unlike mom -they can be fired. Bad mom gets to stick around until the child is grown.

A good center is neither bad nor good in a general sweeping sort of way. It fulfills a need. In the center there will be good providers and bad providers-just like in a family. I know I have relatives I wouldn't leave my children with.

Debating if it is "Good for children" is good for no one. Do your research and make an educated decision. Be involved. As in all things, parental involvement is the key.
post #80 of 104
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