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Any former day care workers think it's GOOD for kids? - Page 5

post #81 of 104
I'm not exactly sure why I opened this thread, but here I am My son is in daycare 4 days a week now and it breaks my heart. I was a SAHM until a divorce forced me to have to put DS in some sort of alternate care so I could work. He goes to a daycare center and although I'd like to believe it is great and loving, this thread makes me wonder just how great it really is.

I wish there were another way. I wish I did not have to send my baby to daycare each day.
post #82 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama
No one is denigrating the work; we're mocking the use of grandiose language.
I actually think it's simpler language. My son goes to a Reggio-inspired early learning center (he started going - his first "school" experience ever - this past October, right before he turned 5). We call it school even though it's not technically a school. Why? Because "early learning center" or "that place I go to while mom goes to class" is, in the case of the former, a little cumbersome and, in the case of the latter, pretty non-descript. "School" and "teacher" are easy terms for little ones to recognize and eventually use. And it's not as though they have any real investment or preconceived ideas about those terms, so what's the harm?

Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything that wednesday has said on this thread. Especially this:

Quote:
I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.
and this:

Quote:
I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.


Ideally, we shouldn't even have to have this discussion. It's disgusting the sorts of situations that women (predominately women, but men, too) and their children are forced into in this country. "Family values" my big, shiny rear. :
post #83 of 104
I don't ever think it's better to choose daycare if you have the ability to care for your children yourself. I've worked in "wonderful" daycares, but I don't think they're ever better than the job a parent can do at home. I think a good family daycare would be better than a day care center. But I would have to have a darn good reason to put my child in daycare to stop being a SAHM.

Now a part-time preschool program is another thing entirely. And sometimes people send their children to a daycare center part-time to get a similar experience. Some centers can provide this, some can't.

- Krista
post #84 of 104
I feel like I have written this same post a million times.

I don't denigrate childcare. I was a nanny for ten years and I worked in two childcare centers for pay and about a half dozen volunteer. I am fortunate to be able to stay home - although since I homeschool children that aren't mine I am basically a WAHM - but I have lots of friends who use childcare and I don't think they're bad.

It's ridiculous to compare the training that even the most expensively trained childcare provider gets with the professions. It's not law. You're not practicing medicine. Seriously, do you all have any grasp on what professional training is actually like? Writing a MA thesis in ECE is not like taking the bar. Getting a PhD in ECE is not like residency.

Childcare is not only not professional, it's not even very highly skilled. I've done it, I'm not ashamed of it. I did a good job and I am proud. You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.

Interestingly, the most educated and wealthiest mothers, who have the most options, do NOT choose highly trained "professionals" for childcare. They choose Latin American or Caribbean immigrants, with absolutely not formal training, who love children. And they're not hiring immigrants because they can pay them less - that's a myth, at least in domestic service. Everyone works under the table and everyone makes around the same, citizen of not.
post #85 of 104
Well if it makes you feel any better, my son's teacher when he was in the 1-year-old class DID have a master's degree in ECE. All the other teachers at his preschool have a minimum of 4-year degrees. I know that is not necessarily the norm for all child care facilities, but when I talk about my son's "teachers," I am not just inflating their education/credentials for the sake of patting my own back.

However--the whole point of my post was not whether or not the people filling those roles are entitled to a particular title or not, BUT that in my experience is't not the PARENTS who are assigning the titles. A PP had alleged that parents use the terms school/teacher because they feel guilty about using child care. My only point was that from what I've seen, the school/teachers nomenclature is originating from the child care facility itself.
post #86 of 104
Quote:
Seriously, do you all have any grasp on what professional training is actually like? Writing a MA thesis in ECE is not like taking the bar. Getting a PhD in ECE is not like residency.
I just re-read your post and now I realize I have no idea what you're getting at. So you think teachers in elementary and secondary level shouldn't call themselves "teachers" either? Or no teacher should call themselves a "professional"?

My husband is an attorney so I do have SOME idea what it takes to earn that credential. I am sure he would tell you it does not offend him if someone else refers to themselves as a "professional."

Quote:
You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.
What on earth are you talking about? I re-read the entire thread and I don't see any reference to that.
post #87 of 104
Ok, I didn't read through the whole thread yet ........

I worked in 3 daycare centers and all 3 were in my opinion very good and I have tried for 2 years to get my DD in one of them (I am not an employee of their org so I am at the bottom of the wait list).

I interviewd at tons of centers that were horrible. I hate to generalize but they were the bigger chain type centers that usually we not ones I wanted to work at. One center was willing to hire me after a 15 minute interview ~ they basically said -"we are desparate, can you start tomorrow?"

I think it would suprise a lot of people to know to be a "teacher" in daycare in the states/areas I worked in required a college degree or several years of experience plus a CDA (which is a child care credential). This was mandated by law. In fact, my college degree was not in education or any related subject so I had to take 6 additional college courses to qualify to "teach".

I taught in a 4 year old room and it was great! I really got to know the kids and I recently saw the parents of one of the kids (its been almost 10 years!) and we remembered each other and I got to see pics of their darling DD almost all grown up. We didn't have a lot of discipline issues in our class and the kids were always engaged in some kind of activity. We worked with the Kindergarten teacher next door alot to do activities. In that center, the majority of the teachers had been there for several years as had the subs. There was very low turnover because the teachers were happy with the environment and that in turn affected both the children and the parents. It was a smaller private preschool/daycare.

The next center I was the infant "teacher". There were 9 infants in the room but it was very rare to actually have all 9 babies in on one day ~ some were part time, some were out sick, some were on vacation. There were 2 teachers and we had a third helper come in the afternoon. Working here was so much fun! Its hard to understand with out seeing it first hand but yes, the babies we had did have fun and "played" with each other. Ok, of course they didn't play as we think of with older kids but here is an example - we had this little built in slope with stairs that went up it. So one baby would get old enough to figure out how to get up the stairs and then come down the slope. Then a couple of the other babies would watch and start to try and imitate and then they would be following each other up the stairs and down the slope! It was so cute to watch! We had a huge mat that covered most of the floor and we usually sat on the floor to play with the babies. There was a separate sleeping area, full kitchen, and changing area.

The last center I worked out was with mixed ages. Loved working there also. I worked with kids 18 mths - 3 years on a daily basis. Sometimes there were older kids but rarely. Even if we only had 8 kids on a given day, we had 3 teachers available. We had a built in treehouse in the center and the kids loved it.

One thing I learned is that some children are better off in daycare. Their parents, either mom or dad or both, couldn't do the 8-10 hours of care alone for their child every day. I don't think this is bad or wrong, I think its just the way it is. Also, I learned that most people undervalue daycare workers. The majority of teachers and aids I worked with all had college degrees some had master's degrees. This is a legitamite career choice.

All in all, working in daycare was the best job(s) I ever had and if it didn't pay so low, I would still be working in one. There are good centers where children have fun and learn and the teachers and adults are interested and engaging.

One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child. Of course, this is the kind of SAHM who will announce she would never put her child in daycare, etc and so forth. I am not saying that this is how all SAHMs are in anyway and the affluence of the area I live in no doubt creates the ability to go to all those classes but it would be nice to meet a SAHM in my area who says "we are going to be busy today - we are going to hang out in the backyard and garden, chase bugs, look at nature, etc".
post #88 of 104
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post #89 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
The store is open so people can shop there. If no one shops on Sundays the store will start closing on Sundays. What if I am that one person who made it profitable for the store to stay open on Sunday? I suppose a store like Wal-Mart might still stay open, even though no one shopped. I'm sure they would schedule a lot less cashiers though.
I would think that if stores had less hours, they would hire less people, meaning more and more people would be out of work. Also sometime both parents need to work. There were times when both DH and I needed to work (like we both had low paying jobs) and I had to work weekends. Now what would have happened if there were no weekend or night jobs available? Then we probably would have been FORCED to use daycare so I could find any job that I could.

Thankfully that never had been the case, because it would have killed me to have to put my son in daycare. It might be the right choice for some, but it's not the right choice for my family.
post #90 of 104
I haven't read through the entire thread, but would like to chime in. I worked at a day care through college (I was pursing my degree in education) and it was wonderful. The other teachers there (most had a BSE, those that didn't had a CDA or were seeking education degrees) were very wonderful and loving. We really loved the kids like they were ours and our environment was one of love and respect. I had a few kids whos parents couldn't afford to clothe them for the winter and the other teachers and I pulled our money and bought the kids some warm clothes. I would trust those women with my child any day of the week and would have no problem sending him to a day care center like the one I worked in.

I don't think it is bad for kids to stay home with mom or dad, but I also don't think its detrimental or bad for them to go to day care. In a center like ours, all you'd be doing is adding to the number of people in your child's life that loved them. That's never bad.

M.
post #91 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9m9m9
One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child.
Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.
post #92 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.
ITA, wow :
post #93 of 104
I *think* I understand what she was trying to say. I do know plenty of moms who have their kids so tightly scheduled that there is no time for relaxed free-play. They jump from one class to the next class to the next play group and suddenly it's time for dinner and bed and the child is exhausted. I get exhausted just listening to them. I don't think she was referring to a few classes or programs a week. At least I hope she wasn't...
post #94 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by KristiMetz
Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.
As a WOHM, I sometimes feel the same as m9m9m9. The thought that daycare is awful and being a SAHM is the way to go is prevalent everywhere. Being a SAHM is not for everyone.

The point I think she was trying to make is that quite a few SAHMs have this arrogance like "well, I'd NEVER put my kid in daycare" and one of the reasons often cited is because they, the mother, wants to spend time with their child. But then that very same mother overschedules their kids to the point that they don't really spend time with them. There's notion that only SAHMs spend meaningful, quality time with their children but the irony is that some of these mothers spend far less meaningful, quality time with their children than their WOHM counterparts.
post #95 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiamond
The point I think she was trying to make is that quite a few SAHMs have this arrogance like "well, I'd NEVER put my kid in daycare" and one of the reasons often cited is because they, the mother, wants to spend time with their child. But then that very same mother overschedules their kids to the point that they don't really spend time with them. There's notion that only SAHMs spend meaningful, quality time with their children but the irony is that some of these mothers spend far less meaningful, quality time with their children than their WOHM counterparts.
I understand what you're saying and have definitely seen that. Maybe what's being missed, though, is that oftentimes SAHMs will do this because of pressure based on the highly vocalized assumption that their kids are being raised as social pariahs, deprived of the plethora of rich experiences that daycare kids are having. It's like a "shame on you for being so selfish to keep your kids home with you!" mentality that can really seep in before you know it. I know that's why a lot of people around here send their children to pre-school at 2 and 3 - because everyone tells them that if they don't, their child is going to be lacking.
post #96 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5
Honestly, I think that the childcare industry is what needs to step up and set the bar if anything is really going to happen. Competition breeds success and better work, not government regulations. I see government regulations get broken at the YMCA all the time. Now if parents had the daycares competing for their business, that would improve them.
The problem is is that there is no money to improve services, parents can only pay so much... I don't know about some of the big child care chains but the ones that I worked at were non profits and often barely scraping by. They are stuck in a no-win situation, they can't pay trained teachers w/o upping classroom ratios. Then the trained teachers get burned out because they are in sub-par learning environment and leave.
post #97 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
I understand what you're saying and have definitely seen that. Maybe what's being missed, though, is that oftentimes SAHMs will do this because of pressure based on the highly vocalized assumption that their kids are being raised as social pariahs, deprived of the plethora of rich experiences that daycare kids are having. It's like a "shame on you for being so selfish to keep your kids home with you!" mentality that can really seep in before you know it. I know that's why a lot of people around here send their children to pre-school at 2 and 3 - because everyone tells them that if they don't, their child is going to be lacking.
I agree with what you're saying as well! I know that if I was a SAHM I'd feel pressured to do all these activities because they are "required" to raise healthy, intelligent, and social children. Of course that's not true!

I think the bottom line is that people, everywhere, have opinions. Someone, somewhere, doesn't like what you're doing. Children are incredibly adaptable. Daycare is no guarantee of failure and SAH is no guarantee of success. It comes down to spending quality time with your children and really valuing them as people. Doing that has nothing to do with whether they attend daycare or SAH.
post #98 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama
Childcare is not only not professional, it's not even very highly skilled.
Don't you think that this is a problem? I would certainly prefer to have my child being taught by a skilled teacher with a MS in ECE who feels passion for her work than by someone just looking for a paycheck. I'm not sure where you law school and your bar exam comparrison is coming from but I know that folks getting teaching degrees in early childhood education from accredited universities go through the same educational hoops and elementary and HS techers do and we don't hesitate to call them "teachers".

Sadly ECE teachers get paid a tiny fraction of the pay the their higer ED peers do so teachers with an academic foundation in early childhood learning are available only to a small number of children.
post #99 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydiamond
I agree with what you're saying as well! I know that if I was a SAHM I'd feel pressured to do all these activities because they are "required" to raise healthy, intelligent, and social children. Of course that's not true!

I think the bottom line is that people, everywhere, have opinions. Someone, somewhere, doesn't like what you're doing. Children are incredibly adaptable. Daycare is no guarantee of failure and SAH is no guarantee of success. It comes down to spending quality time with your children and really valuing them as people. Doing that has nothing to do with whether they attend daycare or SAH.
Absolutely!
post #100 of 104
[QUOTE=urklemama] You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.QUOTE]

Who on earth said that???

You think there are only two professions: doctor and lawyer?

You can type your thread 2 million times, it still won't make any sense.
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