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Let's Brainstorm How to Improve the SAHM Forum - Page 7

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatyMom
Zing...Ya got me. I'm just saying that we need to be respectful to each other, and work hard to stay on topic. No one's perfect, not even me...it's hard to believe, I know, it took me years of therapy to realize it.

I'm going to start a new thread... a sugary sweet, rot your teeth one. Let's see how we do.
Thank you for taking that with the humor in which it was intended, Katymom
post #122 of 144
Thread Starter 
Do we agree to my plan?

If you disagree say so. If you have other ideas, you can say them.

When I read this I will feel like we resolved something;
"I admit I did say, "They should have never had kids if the dump them off on day care...and a lot of other nasty things. I now realise that was not nice. I can express myself in a more respectful way."
and
"I have called pro-SAHMs judgemental many times. I was hypersensetive and I was looking to defend WOHM from insults. But now I see that pro-SAHMs are just as free to think it is the best, as I am free to think it may not be the best. They are not always slamming WOHMs. From now on I will not be so quick to be offended or to call people judgemental. I can share my view and pro-SAHMs can share theirs."

I don't know what people are thinking and I wonder if this thread has improved anything.

What do you think?
post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
I don't know what people are thinking and I wonder if this thread has improved anything.

What do you think?
I think you did the best you could with what you had to work with. I think this thread has improved some people's perspective on posting in a respectful way. That's the best you could hope for. You did good, starting a discourse is the first step to achieving the forum we all want.
post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
MDC has a board for schooling and one for homeschooling. The homeschoolers are allowed to be pro-homeschooling without being called judgemental. If someone came in and said they are offended because people are saying "homeschooling is the best." that complainer would be viewed as the problem and the one starting debate.
Alot of times homeschooling parents get called on trashing on public schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
Let's consider this...What about allowing pro-SAHM statements, like "SAHMing is the best." The one who comes to say it is wrong and judgemental is the one starting a debate.

If you are a SAHM who thinks SAHMing is equal to WOHMing you are still welcome on this forum. You may say what your view is. However you are not to try to debate, critisize or call anyone else judgemental for being pro-SAHMing. Just say your view, using the "I statements" you think are appropriate and drop it. If you think the pro-SAHMers are bashing the working moms go to the moderator, but don't try to admonish them yourself. I see too many people who think every pro-SAHMing statement is bashing WOHMs. The moderator has the right to judge whether it has become offensive and give warnings.
Why does the pro stay at home faction get defacto acceptance while the Moms for equality get the shaft of, well, you're allowed here, but don't try to call us on being bigots? HOW is that working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatyMom
My next question I can not figure out...If all these people hate coming here and hardly ever post anymore because of the in-fighting...then what in the heck are you still doing here? If you have nothing constructive to add to discussion or community at large, then find another forum that meets your needs. That is what I meant by changing the tone of the forum.
I get to come here because I was one of the people who PETITIONED for the need of this forum. Just because it's hard for me to swallow some of the judemental attitudes here doesn't mean I should have to abandon a forum I HELPED FIGHT FOR!

It's my right and duty to help change it into what it was envisioned to be. What is WASN'T supposed to be was a Holier than Thou superiority forum. Ever.

I reject the idea that I am not to be allowed to call BS or unfair generalizations on a forum I fought to have come into existance.
post #125 of 144
Pynki
post #126 of 144
IMO the number one thing that could happen in the SAHM forum is to lighten up on the type of threads allowed.... we can't even talk about our husband thanking us for dinner. When I read the list of things not allowed to be talked about I shook my head and said to myself "guess I won't be posting here much....."
post #127 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
Pynki
I agree that Pynki's post was awesome.

Boy, I have missed out on a lot by not frequenting this forum. I am a proud sahm and wish I could do it forever and I would argue with anyone that it is best for my child that I stay home with her. But, I would use "I" statements to preface this argument because I know that not everyone agrees with this. I have to say that after reading this entire thread, I still am not clear on what exactly has been decided. There is always a bit of tension here and there at MDC. It gets resolved eventually by people realizing that either they don't belong in a certain forum (for whatever reason) or that they need to tone themselves down according to the user agreement. I think putting a sticky on the forum that paraphrases the user agreement and making it apply specifically to the topic of being a stay at home parent would be a good idea.

Quote:
Our discussions on the boards are about the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support and information
Quote:
You are expected to avoid the following when you post:


1. Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
Both of these are very clear, I think, and would apply to everything you all have been discussing. It would make it clear that you can post here and defend your belief so long as it is done in a respectful and supportive manner. Isn't that what you all are after?

I write all of this as a person who has a very good friend who is working full time and did not breastfeed her children after six mos of age because she grew tired of pumping at work. She is wealthy compared to me. Her goal is to retire at 45 and be able to spend tons of time with her children, who will then still be under age 10. Her goal is still to take care of her children to the best of her ability, but in a different way than me, who is giving up a lot financially in order to be home with my child now and breastfeed for more than two years. We both have the same goals but we do it differently. We would not know that about each other if we did talk to each other respectfully and ask questions rather than make judgements.

Kathy
post #128 of 144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pynki

Why does the pro stay at home faction get defacto acceptance while the Moms for equality get the shaft of, well, you're allowed here, but don't try to call us on being bigots? HOW is that working.
Both pro-SAHMers and "moms for equality" get to post without being slamed. Neither gets the shaft. No one gets to bully the other ones.

If a pro-SAHMer can't say anything pro-SAHMing without being called a bigot she is getting the shaft. I have seen many Pro-SAHMs get flamed because "moms for equality" disagree with them. "Moms for equality" need to be tolerant of pro-SAHMing views. "Moms for equality" do not own this board.

Pro-SAHMers are not allowed to degrade WOHM-by-choice. (yes, this does happen) The moderator should judge wether or not it is degrading. Flaming pro-SAHMers is really not helpful. Certain "Moms-for-equality" have trouble tolerating the other side and are quick to come out flaming. They should not be allowed to act as the judge and jury of what is acceptable here. (unless of course, we agree to let them)
post #129 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
Both pro-SAHMers and "moms for equality" get to post without being slamed. Neither gets the shaft. No one gets to bully the other ones.

If a pro-SAHMer can't say anything pro-SAHMing without being called a bigot she is getting the shaft. I have seen many Pro-SAHMs get flamed because "moms for equality" disagree with them. "Moms for equality" need to be tolerant of pro-SAHMing views. "Moms for equality" do not own this board.

Pro-SAHMers are not allowed to degrade WOHM-by-choice. (yes, this does happen) The moderator should judge wether or not it is degrading. Flaming pro-SAHMers is really not helpful. Certain "Moms-for-equality" have trouble tolerating the other side and are quick to come out flaming. They should not be allowed to act as the judge and jury of what is acceptable here. (unless of course, we agree to let them)
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
Both pro-SAHMers and "moms for equality" get to post without being slamed. Neither gets the shaft. No one gets to bully the other ones.

If a pro-SAHMer can't say anything pro-SAHMing without being called a bigot she is getting the shaft. I have seen many Pro-SAHMs get flamed because "moms for equality" disagree with them. "Moms for equality" need to be tolerant of pro-SAHMing views. "Moms for equality" do not own this board.

Pro-SAHMers are not allowed to degrade WOHM-by-choice. (yes, this does happen) The moderator should judge wether or not it is degrading. Flaming pro-SAHMers is really not helpful. Certain "Moms-for-equality" have trouble tolerating the other side and are quick to come out flaming. They should not be allowed to act as the judge and jury of what is acceptable here. (unless of course, we agree to let them)
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you.

I think I can be very pro SAHM-ing and say, "I think this is the very best thing for my kids and can't imagine doing it anyother way!" but to say..."I love my kids so much. HOW could you leave you baby/toddler with someone else?!"

That's bound to ruffle feathers. Now, do I PERSONALLY think that SAHM-ing is best. In general yes. I also know though that PEOPLE aren't generalities. So my GENERAL thoughts don't make it into discussion because people aren't general.

And the fact remains that sometimes having a mother who works and is happy is better than having an unhappy mother who snaps at you and hits you stay at home any day of the week.

Edit to add:

I think that a lot of the things that come out as "pro" SAHM are coming from a place of incredible privilege and an unwillingness to examine it. Again. as I've said before. Disagreement isn't flaming. Disagreement is just that. Disagreement.

Flaming would be.
"You're just a WOHM troll. Why do you even come here?!"
That would be flaming. Especially to members who have been here for years.

Disagreement looks more like.

"That hasn't been my experience. It seeems you think xyz, and from what I can see that comes from ZYX either in your life or something else."
post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pynki
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you.

I think I can be very pro SAHM-ing and say, "I think this is the very best thing for my kids and can't imagine doing it anyother way!" but to say..."I love my kids so much. HOW could you leave you baby/toddler with someone else?!"

That's bound to ruffle feathers
True.

I still dont understand why you cannot be passionate about your choices and your life an not be offensive and demeaning to another woman.

I think someone can be pro anything and still be respectful of another persons life and views.
post #132 of 144
Thread Starter 
oops I posted in the wrong place. Please ignore.
post #133 of 144
To use "I" statements and avoid using "you" and attacking statements is the best way to avoid hurting feelings. Honestly, how hard is that to understand?

To tell someone "You should stay home. You are a crappy mother for wanting to WOH." That's wrong. Flat out wrong.

I do not ever believe that WOH makes a woman a crappy mother. There are so many other things that a woman can do to her children that would be so much worse.

I mean, honestly. I feel that if a woman chooses to WOH, and have a live in au pair, nanny, child nurse, whatever... well, at some point, I feel like that's farming your child out and why bother, eh?

Have you read The Nanny Diaries? That was an over the top idea of what some people believe being a SAHM is all about.
post #134 of 144
And Cinnamon, it doesn't matter. If we are respectful with our words and point out how SAH is working for us, then there isn't a need to "include" anyone. I'm not getting what you're asking.

Could you explain it better for me? Are we asking to exclude one or the other?
post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
I just imagine me responding to to a "I am ambivalant about SAHMing convince me to do it" thread by saying

Be a SAHM! Being a SAHM is great! If you SAHM you get the benefit of ____________ and avoid the problem of _______________

and then I get flamed and the moderator sends me a private message telling me I can't say that.
How about: "I've found staying at home to be the best thing I've ever done. I like being able to breastfeed on demand. I'm happy that I get to see all of the wonderful things my children do every day. I feel like they've been healthier because they haven't been exposed to tons of illnesses in their early months." And so on?

I, I, I. As Pynki said, not generalities, because for every generality there is someone who has experienced the exception, and that's where the argument comes in.

Also, when you use "raising my children" as a synonym for "staying at home" that's offensive. Not to say you can't use "raising my children" in other contexts, but using it as an obvious replacer for "staying at home" is loaded and divisive.

It seems to me that the problems in this forum could be overcome not by excluding one faction of moms or another but, instead, by everyone taking a little time to think about how they are employing language. Heck, maybe everyone should take a break from the computer and read Non-Violent Communication.
post #136 of 144
Quote:
I, I, I. As Pynki said, not generalities, because for every generality there is someone who has experienced the exception, and that's where the argument comes in.
Coming to this forum late, but ditto. You can say bfing is best, you can say eating healthy is best, getting adequate exercise is best, etc because those are all proven facts. There are no generalizations with those statements. However saying "Woriking outside the home is best" or "Staying at home is the best(for everyone)" because those are not proven facts, nor will they ever be. It's the equivelant of saying "Chocolate ice cream is best (for everyone)" or "Vanilla ice cream is best". You don't know everyone so you can't possibly know which flavor is better.

When in doubt, take the emotion out of it and include "for me/for my family" etc. Recently on another board a member had posted about eating her placenta after birth and listed the benefits of it. Another poster said she thought it was nasty and the benefits did not outweight the "ick" factor (for lack of a better term). The thread exploded. Now, had she said "I'm eating chicken" and the pp said she thought chicken was nasty, no one would have said a thing. Ideally she should have said something to the effect of "Personally I think it's nasty, but to each his own"

And lastly, keep in my mind we're called "Individuals" for a reason. We're just that - individual and uniqe. What works for one will NOT always work for the other and what is best for you is not always the best for the other.
post #137 of 144
Thread Starter 
I haven't seen any new brainstorming ideas lately. I think now we are discussing which possible solution is best. I don't call that brainstorming. Brainstorming is comming up with ideas. I started a new thread asking people to pick from two possible solutions.

Please come post on the thread "Should We include Pro-SAHMing? Yes/No" Say what you think.

Nevermind the thread is closed.

I don't think people are going to agree to use "I statements." and refrain from saying "SAHMing is ideal" That is what I was trying to ask and people got really offended, like I was trying to control them.

I am upset that people misunderstood what I was trying to do.
post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco

Please come post on the thread "Should We include Pro-SAHMing? Yes/No" Say what you think.
There is already a sticky.

It clearly states the rules and guidelines of this forum. It was set by the administrator and endorsed by Peggy.
post #139 of 144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
There is already a sticky.

It clearly states the rules and guidelines of this forum. It was set by the administrator and endorsed by Peggy.
Well what are we posting on this brainstorming thread for? If the sticky prevented problems we wouldn't have any problems now. I wanted to know what people think we can/should do to make the forum better. I didn't say, "Tell me what new rules you want so I can instate them." I never claimed to have that power.

I thought MDC would be glad to have an open dicussion about these things. Obviously I was wrong.

Does anyone understand what I was trying to do?
post #140 of 144
I understand. You are trying to get agreement on something I said pages ago you never would or could.
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