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Please help me understand something... - Page 4

post #61 of 97
I am a selfish only child. Until I had my boys, my thoughts on kids were of the "eh, they're okay but not great" variety. Even while I was pregnant with my first, I felt kind of detached from the whole thing. And scared. I was terrified on the changes that were soon to come into my life.

Then I had Evan. Then Drew. Words can never adequately describe my love for them. They are the sweetest, funniest, most precious people in my life. What if I had never given that a chance?

That said, if your gut is telling you NO WAY to kids, you should listen to it. BUT... if there is even the tiniest doubt that you could find happiness with your child, you should give it a chance. It sounds like your partner would be a tremendous support to you.

Also:

1. the only time I peed myself was when I saw the 40 Year Old Virgin during my third trimester... and I bet lots of people peed themselved during that movie.

2. Labor hurts. A lot. There's no denying that. But the pain is a different and specialized kind of pain. AND IT ENDS. Remember: The less you interfere with your body during labor, the more completely the pain is gone once your baby is in your arms.

Good luck to you. I wish you the happiness of a baby.
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACesPlace
And finally, I have faithfully used birth control all my life. I have suffered two failures, repeat: two failures. I have never, NEVER, yes that's right, not even once in college, have I ever had sex without birth control. Nothing is perfect, and I am far from careless.
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.
post #63 of 97
I just realized that in my earlier post I never answered the original question: why have kids? People have made terrific lists, and I agree with many of the previously-mentioned reasons.

However, my main reason was that I felt that passing my husband's and my values on to kids we would raise, would help put two responsible, intelligent, caring, hard-working people on the earth. And the earth definitely needs more such people! I can't guarantee how my kids will turn out, but I daresay their chances of turning out well are pretty good if we continue to love them and give them a safe, stable environment and loving (sometimes firm) guidance. Frankly, if we leave all the "breeding" to the willfully ignorant and lazy people of the world, then we have no right to complain about how things turn out.
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerikadi
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.
I had an abortion between my two oldest sons. I am now pregnant with my fourth child, for the fifth time and would hate to think of my life without the children I've had after abortion, should I have opted for tubal ligation.
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kawa kamuri
I had an abortion between my two oldest sons. I am now pregnant with my fourth child, for the fifth time and would hate to think of my life without the children I've had after abortion, should I have opted for tubal ligation.
yes, but you want children at all. You might not have been ready for another child at the time of your abortion, but you knew that you might want other children. Not quite the same thing as the OP.
post #66 of 97
Alright, mamas. I think some of you may have forgotten something here. This woman has not come to us and said that she has already HAD another abortion. She is STRUGGLING with a choice, and slamming her, no matter how rough around the edges her story may be, is not going to save this child. Please find compassion within yourself and try to be kind? Aren't we all here to learn? This mama has come here to learn from some of the kindest and most compassionate mothers I know...please try to teach her the things you know to be true! A person who is put on the defensive is less likely to be taught, don't you think?
post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan
yes, but you want children at all. You might not have been ready for another child at the time of your abortion, but you knew that you might want other children. Not quite the same thing as the OP.
:

This woman is considering abortion for the SECOND time! She has made it clear that she does not want children. She knew after the first abortion that she didn't want children - not further down the line maybe but not at any time.
I am not beating her up. She doesn't want children so doing something permanent rather than relying on bc which we all not is not 100% effective no matter what the method would be the best choice.

Keri
post #68 of 97
Quote:
A person who is put on the defensive is less likely to be taught, don't you think?
Sure. But whether she learns something from this or not is on her shoulders, no one else's, and I would hope she would be swayed by logic and her own heart rather than other people's manners.
post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerikadi
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by courteney e
This woman has not come to us and said that she has already HAD another abortion. She is STRUGGLING with a choice, and slamming her, no matter how rough around the edges her story may be, is not going to save this child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerikadi
I am not beating her up. She doesn't want children so doing something permanent rather than relying on bc which we all not is not 100% effective no matter what the method would be the best choice.
This may be true, but it also goes without saying. It is also irrelevant to the point of the original post, which is that she is in conflict and looking for perspective. To say that she should not have allowed herself to be in this situation in the first place is pointless. Perhaps she made a mistake, perhaps not -- there are valid reasons not to have surgery or abstain, and not everyone feels the same way about abortion. Further, she may have been led in this direction by her own psyche or by forces outside of herself for a reason, so it is really not for anyone to judge whether she should have gotten pregnant. For all you know, this will be a hugely transformative thing for her to work through and may result in healing and good. Whatever the case, she is pregnant now, and there is no going back. For people to continue to point out her "mistake" -- if it was that -- is not contructive in any sense.
post #70 of 97
Yes, fourlittlebirds, that's the point I was trying to make. She is pregnant, and trying to come to terms, AND honestly asking why people want babies...I think HOPING to find some common ground. If she were simply going to abort, she would already have done so. Instead, she is seeking to figure out whether that's TRUELY what she wants to do. That she hasn't already done so leads me to believe that, in her heart, perhaps she doesn't want to. Could we help her instead of bashing her? And no, I DON'T think that bashing her will help. But, that's just my opinion...
post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by courtenay_e
Could we help her instead of bashing her? And no, I DON'T think that bashing her will help. But, that's just my opinion...
Where is she being bashed?
From what I have read I guess my post would seem the most 'agressive' and I only suggested she be serilized and only because she has made it obvoius (if only to me) that she has no desire to have children and plans on keeping this pregnancy a secret from her SO.

These are HER words:
Quote:
I am now in the position where I am going to have to have another termination, which is fine with me, but the father is a great guy and I can't tell him about it. He will want it, and I can't handle it. I would rather shoot myself quickly than be pregnant or go through labor.
Nobody has called her names or said anything negative about choosing to abort which I know is likely hard for *some* of us. I think she has been met with MUCH compassion.

I will admit I am one of those people that has a hard time with women using abortion as birth control but that's just *me*.

I don't think any of us want to debate and nobody is being mean or rude - just sharing our opinions on a bulletin board.

Keri
post #72 of 97
Kari, I also really really have a difficult time watching people use abortion as birth control. However, I also know that being "agressive" when people are looking for education and help isn't necessarily the way to get them to change their ways. I'm not looking for an arguement, just hoping to help someone who may be teetering on the edge of NOT aborting a child to keep that baby alive! Teach her with kindness. Offer resources (I have done this through pm) to help keep her gestating, to make her more sure of the possibility of birth. She has written that she's printed out the reasons people appreciate/want their children, and is reading them over with an impartial friend. This is definately a step toward keeping that baby alive...even if it's to adopt it out to another person. Lets keep her in that mindset, shall we?
post #73 of 97
Thread re-opening. A couple of posts have been removed for violating the User Agreement.
post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan
At age 45, maybe you should look into more permanant ways to prevent pregnancy. I mean, it's hardly likely that you don't know your own mind by now and if some incredible incidence does happen to make you want children--you can always adopt.
I should clarify, I said this because often times women who try to get permanent birthcontrol because they know they don't want children are fed a line about how "what if you change your mind?" "kids are *so* wonderful" "you're still young!" Even when they're at an age when other women are being fed lines like "are you sure you should get pregnant at your age?"
post #75 of 97
Why would I want to do this...and do it again?

Look at that man who fathered the unborn child you're carrying. You will love your child as much, some would argue, more, than you love him. Or imagine another person in your life that you love dearly...it won't compare to the love you have for your own child.

The child you're carrying isn't just a "kid" you're going to have---it's a whole life....a baby, child, teenager, adult....your child will probably become a parent and continue that family legacy. This goes beyond you and what you want right now--it will affect so many more lives than just your own.
post #76 of 97
I can say I was one who never cared for children, did not actually like being around them, felt no fondness for them whatsoever. I said in my teens I'd never want to be a mom.

Ds1 was a surprise, and I couldn't even imagine what life would be like with a child... but you know what, it all changed when he was born. Maternal instinct kicked in and all that resistance and distaste for everything child-related faded away.

I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies, it's still just life - sometimes rough sometimes euphoric, and anywhere inbetween. But way better than I could have or would have predicted, before actually having a child I would have predicted negative consequences to my life. I was wrong about that.

Now my husband and I are ttc.. and we ask ourselves why we want another child, why bring a person into this life? I am looking at it as inviting a person into this life to share it with us, I've seen how families grow together and it can be so amazing. It can be fulfilling, even if it is not what you thought you wanted.

There are lots of couples out there who can't have children - could you consider adoption if you ultimately decide that you do not want to raise a child?
post #77 of 97
To the OP, if you're still reading:

We obviously come from two different planets when it comes to children, as I've wanted to be a mom my whole life, but you did come seeking a different perspective.

Children are the future. That's incredibly tribe but absolutely true. We have the opportunity to change the world not only in what we do with our own lives but what we do to help shape our children's lives. Being the best mother I can be to my amazing daughter is just as important a contribution as the work I do in mathematics and music, at my job, every day.

Even knowing that I wanted to be a mom, pregnancy was the most amazing experience, and motherhood has been even better. That's not to say there aren't challenges, although unlike your friends, I have never peed myself, and during pregnancy only vomited once, and that was from an unrelated illness. I couldn't believe how outright cool it was to feel another being growing inside me, and nothing compares with the first time I felt movement. And then she was born. As much as I loved her while I was pregnant, the love I have for her now dwarfs it. She made our family a family. She brought my husband and me much closer.....and he was ambivalent at best about having kids before she was born!

I think your friends' experiences may be colored by their attitudes. Are they people who have always valued material success and tangible milestones? To people like this, having a child might be seen as one more accomplishment, another thing to tick off on the great to-do list of life. When confronted with the reality of poopy diapers, runny noses, and middle-of-the-night crying, these parents might regret having a baby who isn't just always cute and adorable. You repeatedly mention these people as close friends, and friends usually share the same values. If you have never liked or wanted children, then odds are they never really wanted them for deeper-seeded reasons either. This will definitely color the way they view the not-so-easy parts of parenthood.
post #78 of 97
Haven't read the whole thread yet and it looks like to gets kind of ugly.

There are some parallels between my life and yours. I have one child who was born when I was 33 and I'm 36 now and DH is 46. I terminated a pregnancy with DH (not married then) when I was in my early 20s. We've been together for quite some time and had a fabulous life pre-baby. I never wanted children as a young adult, but I always figured that my bio clock would one day start ticking. I figured I'd want them when I got older. I was ambivalent about getting pregnant at 32. I still wasn't sure I wanted a kid, but figured I would give it a go since I was running out of time to change my mind. DH and I were both like - if it works, great and if not, well, we've got a pretty good life. To our surprise we got pregnant right away.

My pregnancy was great, again to my surprise. I really enjoyed it. People are always happy to see a pregnant woman. I think it reminds them of hope and future. I'm not one who usually like attention all the time (the whole bridal scene gave me the heebejeebies), but I enjoyed the pregnancy. DH and I (who had been together for 11 years) fell in love all over again while I was pregnant. Never thought that would happen, but it was like we were first dating. We laid in bed and simply gazed into each others eyes - just like new pupply love. I mean, after 11 years, I kinda figured that aspect was over for both of us. A co-worker, also pregnant in her 40s said the same thing to me and was equally surprised.

And here's my favorite story. I used to love to lay in bed and read the Sunday paper with DH. This was our quality time - lazy decadence from a hectic workweek. I couldn't imagine what my life would be like with some screaming kid pulling me out of bed in the morning. And one day, after I had my daughter and I was tickling her in our bed together, and nuzzling her and making her laugh, it ocurred to me that I didn't miss that paper one darn bit! My child was so absorbing, so interesting and even at times relaxing, that it just superceded any thought of the Sunday paper.

Obviously, we can't make this decision for you. But I wanted you to know that there are people who aren't so different from you. Annie Lamott is a good author to read - her situation is similar to yours, but the father was skipping out and she was a poor struggling writer. I liked Meredith Small's Our Babies Ourselves for opening my eyes to the uniquely Western view that children REQUIRE sacrifice on the part of the parents. That's not a given, it's just a cultural construct. Finally, Jean Liedloff's The Continuum Concept gave the confidence to understand that I didn't have to subjugate my life for that of my baby's. It showed me that I could have a child and bring her into my life, not change my life for hers.

PS - I'm 5'2", 100lbs soaking wet and a "pain weenie." I gained 47lbs while pregnant and easily birthed an 8lb 9 0z health baby girl naturally. Childbirth does not HAVE to be the horror story so many people make it out to be! Labor pain is not like other pain - it's really like good pain. I had a great doula supplied by the hospital.
post #79 of 97
I too wonder if the OP even still around and wonder how/why she came here of all places.

However, I just wanted to add that I, in general, don't like children. I love my children, but I don't like kids or think they are cute or enjoy being around other people's children. There are a few rare exceptions, but in general I don't like kids. But I love my children and wouldn't give them up for the world, I would do it all again.
post #80 of 97
Thread Starter 

Thank you all

Thank you all for your input. No, I am not a troll. I have so little computer experience I had to ask someone to define a troll for me. (The only troll I knew about was the travelocity elf or whatever he is called.)

This has been an amazing personal experience for me. Other than the fact that I have learned a great deal about how to surf the internet--and I learned in a hurry, I might add--I have learned a great deal about myself. Some of it is good; some, not so good.

I congratulate all of you on your dedication to AP and the other natural philosophies you share and put to good practice. I know you are all good and caring mothers.

Again, thank you for your time. It has been a truly amazing experience.
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