Can we talk about kindergarten? - Page 6

[jkpmomtoboys]

I swear reading this thread makes me so thankful we live where we do. My ds will turn 6 next month and went to a 1/2 day, play based Sudbury-style Kindergarten in our local school. I can't imagine these schools where the kids have to read coming out of Kindergarten, have to sit still for 4 or 5 hours a day, have homework or any of these other things I'm reading about...

[oneotamama]

We plan on HSing and I don't think we'll use a curriculum either. I might feel different if my ds liked workbooks and "school type" things, but he runs the other way so we'll play it cool for kindergarten

[hotmamacita]

Nemmer-

My son has had speech differences although we've never had him tested. They have worked themselves out with my patience and gentle redirection at the right time. He's four too and he's approaching five soon and his speech has improved a lot in the past few months.

We have decided not to do kindergarten. It just doesn't seem to make sense to us. Its not required in our state and we feel led to just start him our in first year next year when he is older. He is learning at home by being a a member of the family and with us and around his older sibling when she has lessons. But he also NEEDS to play. He has energy that expands and I can't see him being responded well to in a classroom setting with the expectations mandated for students so young. I agree with Steiner's stages of development more and more. (But some of his other writings make my head : )

We have talked with local parents and nurses in the past few months and have learned a lot and come to the conclusion that schools may be institutionalizing young children through strict testing preparation and through teacher/committee recommended medical intervention for add and adhd.

We'd be glad to send them to school if we felt they'd truly get an education nowadays. We are about to pay our property taxes and bitterly feel this is our payment to homeschool. We just wish our money were going to really educate children in the school system.

[muse]

Well this is educational and making me feel good about our choices right now. DS happens to be too young for K this year because of a dec b.day and it's been a blessing in disguise. We are going to homeschool this yr using the Enki Kindergarten curriculum. "Curriculum" in a loose sense because kindergarten in enki, as in waldorf, is very much based around daily home life, but having the curriculum is helpful for me in having a direction and a wealth of stories, art projects, etc to drw form. He's been in a waldorf school till now so has gotten used to and really benefitted from some kind of clear rhythm to his day. We'll do that 3 days a week, and one day a week go to the woods or becah, and another day we go to a mixed age co-op playgroup.

We're having such a great time already I find it hard to imagine applying for ps next year...we moved to berkeley because of the supposedly good, progressive schools, but i won't know how i feel till i actually see them.

[Lillianna]

Originally Posted by hotmamacita

What are your thoughts on kindergarten? Whether you homeschool, unschool, or conventional school, do you think a curricullum is needed?

Just thought I'd jump in here, I have read most of the other posts. It is alarming to me as well that children at 5 and 6 in traditional K are being treated so roughly. I teach in Montessori. The Montessori program lets each child work at his own pace and with what is interesting to him. So, if your child is interested in learning numbers, letters: the materials are there. If your child wants to bake bread and paint pictures, play music, or just talk with friends, that choice is also available. We do find that most children are interested in learning "academics"...when left to initiate themselves and not forced to prove their knowledge through extraneous testing. Of course, each child learns at her own pace. This is a 3 year program: the directress gets to know each child's strengths and weaknesses and interests. The child knows what to expect and can continue where he left off, not where the admin. says he should be. When we seek to find out the child's level of understanding, we simply observe him when using the materials: the child has no idea she is being "tested". Additional lessons are then planned to help the child understand the concept better, if needed. There is no assigned curriculum, no pressure and no tests!

[frogguruami]

Originally Posted by hotmamacita

What are your thoughts on kindergarten? Whether you homeschool, unschool, or conventional school, do you think a curricullum is needed?

We homeschool. SO in our situation, no a curriculum is not needed. Let them develop at their own pace and don't push anything on them they aren't ready for.

However, for the purposes of public school, a curriculum would totally be needed. Because those children MUST know certain things by the end of the school year. If they don't they will be behind and unprepared to take the standardized tests that they have to take every year. The school system has to cram so much into each year that they leave no time for personal development. So yes those teachers need to follow a curric in order stay on schedule.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by amseiler

...If they don't they will be behind and unprepared to take the standardized tests that they have to take every year. The school system has to cram so much into each year that they leave no time for personal development.

Honestly, I'd have to say that good teachers, even in PSs, aren't this rigid.

The kids start taking standardized tests for NCLB in 3rd grade, so there is some time in which to get them prepared. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of these tests. What I am getting at is that teachers who push, push, push in K and 1st are misguided IMHO since there is no need to have kids performing like little trained monkeys that early.

My older dd's second grade teacher really did make an effort to let the kids explore their personal interests. DD, for instance, loves the ocean and we adopted a manatee for her class through the Save the Manatee Club. The teacher adapted the entire science curricula for a week or so to study sirenians of the wild (the group to which manatee belong). She also let dd spend some of her reading time writing "books" b/c dd was already doing very well in reading and had developed a real passion for writing as well.

The ironic thing is, that her 1st grade teacher took the drill 'em on the facts approach and dd made very little academic progress that year until we took her out and homeschooled her. The next year with a more laid back approach and room to explore her real interests, her test scores went up btwn 2-3 grade levels in everything that year.

My point is, that a child led approach can work in a PS with a good teacher and often results in better test scores anyway so it truly doesn't make sense
to cram in information using flash cards and anything you can do to prep them for standardized tests. It is counter productive regardless of which result you are looking for (happy kid or good test scores). The two seem to go together although I agree that many teachers and schools have not gotten this fact.

[jkpmomtoboys]

Originally Posted by amseiler

However, for the purposes of public school, a curriculum would totally be needed. Because those children MUST know certain things by the end of the school year. If they don't they will be behind and unprepared to take the standardized tests that they have to take every year. The school system has to cram so much into each year that they leave no time for personal development. So yes those teachers need to follow a curric in order stay on schedule.

I've never seen a teacher this rigid, either. Our teachers have a curriculum in order to do similar things every year and teach kids what they need to know. Not because they aren't creative or only teach to the test.

All kids in school need to know certain things by the end of each year. Otherwise, what is the point of school?

[oceanbaby]

Originally Posted by jkpmomtoboys

All kids in school need to know certain things by the end of each year. Otherwise, what is the point of school?

Well, that is the point of school. Some would argue it's not the point of education though. Different children will be developmentally ready and/or interested in different things at different times, so an environment in which every child must learn the same things at the same time by the end of the year is not an ideal education, IMO.

And teaching kids "what they need to know" is also variable. Who says that my 5yo and your 5yo "need" to know the same things? I'm sure they have different interests. And who decides what a child "needs" to know? Those are some of the issues I have with institutional school, especially for the kindergarten/elementary years.

But I know that some schools are most definitely better than others, and it sounds like you have access to one with a good environment. I was not blown away by any of the public or private schools that we saw. They most definitely had a curriculum, and although in the private schools many of the teachers were creative in how they taught the curriculum, it still would not have allowed my son to learn about outer space (his current obsession) because they have Ancient Egypt on the curriculum for that year.

[ParisAnne]

Originally Posted by mattemma04

School K programs vary a great deal from play learning to regular academics.Many complain that grade 1 material has been pushed down onto K students.Sometimes it works out fine,but not every kids can do the work.

K programs probably do vary alot. My husband thinks our area "dumbs down" the K program. The require that a child knows his upper case and hopefully lower case ABC's, can count to thirty, write some letters and a few other things. My dd misses the school cut off by 4 weeks here, so she's getting another year of co-op preschool. She is doing beyond what kids need to know to graduate kindergarten- she's reading beg. books, can write all her letters, count up to 50 and recognizes past ten written. We considered testing her in, but since we aren't putting her into public school anyways, decided not to. She is obviously learning enough w/out being in school.

At this point in time we are planning on using the Family Resource center (through the school district) the year after next, and she'll be able to take classes that she wants to through them, basically home schooling w/some outside supplemenation.