Originally Posted by BinahYeteirah
II will just take a few glaring mistranslations now, if I don't get interrupted.
Psalms 22:16 - It says nothing about someone being "pierced" in hands and feet. It says "like a LION" they are at my hands and feet!
OK, I know that I'm the one who gave you that other list from which you took this, but personally if I were making my own list, I wouldn't have chosen this as a great example on its own. It also seems that in this region of the list, it is a bit unclear how the prophecies and NT happenings are linked up.
The NT verse they have attached doesn't seem precisely appropriate; rather it is an echo of Psalm 22:1. But, getting to the point.
Ok, so the two translations (well there are many variations, but you know what I mean) we have are:
|16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [a] my hands and my feet. (NIV)
For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet. (JPS)
According to my NIV text notes "Some Hebrew manuscripts, Septuagint and Syriac" use this pierced translation. And that "most Hebrew manuscripts / like the lion,"
This web site has a chart with a variety of older renderings. (Overall this author IS making the argument for “like a lion”)http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pierce.html
Like a lion my hands and my feet.
They dig (?) my hands and my feet.
Biting like a lion my hands and my feet.
LXXωρυξαν χειρας μου και ποδας μου They dug my hands and my feet.
α' (1)ησχυναν χειρας μου και ποδας μου They disfigured my hands and my feet.
σ' ως λεων χειρας μου και ποδας μου Like a lion my hands and my feet.
OLfoderunt manus meas et pedes meosThey dug / pricked my hands and my feet.
VPfoderunt manus meas et pedes meosThey dug / pricked my hands and my feet.
LJvinxerunt manus meas et pedes meosThey bound / encircled my hands and my feet.
They hacked off / pierced my hands and my feet.
They hacked off / pierced my hands and my feet.
They fettered my hands and my feet.
Like seeking to bind my hands and my feet.
I did agree with this author http://www.christian-thinktank.com/ps22cheat.html
that “like a Lion” just doesn’t sound very nice to me. But some versions have the verb organized differently to make “like a lion” sound better.
Again, I don’t know for sure exactly what the best answer is. I do not have the education to try to say that X rendering is definitely correct, and that you should believe it. I am merely trying to explain how I can believe it.
Some feel that you can render it “like a lion” and still have a similar prophetical meaning. http://www.hadavar.org/Psalm_22_16.html
In either case, there are other references in the OT about being run through, pierced, etc. -ones that are more specifically alluded to in the NT than this one.
|The related verse Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed. (NIV)
But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. (JPS)
10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [a] of grace and supplication. They will look on [b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born. (JPS)
I also found it useful to look at this source- example here is Isaiah 53:5-is the word pierced or simply wounded? http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...7489-1962.html
And, so what if it is wounded?
To me they all work together to paint a general picture of piercing, injuring, wounding, damage to hands and feet, etc. And once combined they lead me to an image that is fulfilled by Jesus’ crucifixion.
As a side note, I know there are some schools of thought that the Christians have deliberately mistranslated these to supply additional proof for Jesus being the Christ. On the other hand, since certain pre-Christ translations use the same word, it is also possible to speculate that certain Jewish scholars deliberately rejected this translation for the same reason. I am not necessarily arguing either of these. I think it is very possible for translators to come to different conclusions through honest means, outside of their personal bias. Just wanted to mention these two ideas are out there.
NIV verses copied from here http://www.biblegateway.com/
JPS verses copied from here http://www.hareidi.org/bible/bible.htm