Low Milk Supply Tribe -- May/June 2006 thread

[TurboClaudia]

Since our last thread was very, very, very insanely long, and in honor of our new home in the Breastfeeding Challenges forum, I thought we could reintroduce ourselves and connect in this new thread.

Here's a link to the last page of our old thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...119922&page=55

So if you are currently or have struggled with low milk supply issues, please tell us a little about yourself and your baby(ies) and your journey in breastfeeding!

milky vibes to all...

~claudia

[TurboClaudia]

I'm Claudia, mama to our almost two year old boy Marek and growing a new little one set to debut sometime in late September.

Breastfeeding started out well for us, but when M was about 4.5 months old, we discovered he was not gaining weight at an appropriate pace, he was having fewer soaking wet diapers and going days between pooping. After seeing a wonderful lactation consultant, our naturopath and a pediatric MD, we began the journey of trying to boost my milk supply. Pumping after day time feedings, supplementing at the breast with a temporary rigged SNS-type tube, trying to finger-feed, etc. After a week, our son hadn't gained any appreciable amount and my pumping had not increased in output, so we made the decision to supplement at the breast with a Lact-Aid using my breastmilk, donated breastmilk from wonderful mama friends, and later with fortified goat's milk (added iron, folic acid and fish oil to it). We also introduced solid foods at this point, starting with avocado, banana, and sweet potatoes. We continued using the Lact-Aid until M was about 9.5 months old and began eating solid foods with zest but still enjoying the nursing. I also took fenugreek, ate lots of oatmeal, drank Mother's Milk tea, used More Milk Plus herbal tincture, and finally even tried domperidone to increase my supply. None of these had a significant effect, aside from the dom making me incessantly hungry and gassy. I also tried acupuncture and chinese herbs, which we believe gave our son a mild rash on his belly for some weeks but otherwise didn't affect either of us.

He graduated from night time nursing around age 11.5 months after he chewed on my nipple to soothe his new teeth coming in instead of nursing. Gradually over 3-4 months, his 4-5 times a day nursings dropped down to just one nursing before bedtime at night, and then he graduated from that one at age 18.5 months, just before this past Christmas and about a week before I became pregnant again.

We have never unequivocally determined what exactly caused my low milk supply while nursing him, although the lactation consultant mentioned his palate might be slightly higher than typical and that my breasts are spaced quite widely on my chest (a sign of hypoplasia/ insufficient glandular tissue). We also battled thrush for approximately a month before we determined the weight gain and supply problems, and that may have altered his suck just enough to affect his drawing the milk out.

I am looking forward and becoming nervous about preparing for this new little one, hoping that perhaps we will face the same struggles again but also hoping that perhaps we won't.

~claudia

[MarcyC]

Hi there! I'm Marcy. I have 3 kids - Matt is 7, Jessica is 6 (they are a year and 3 days apart). Megan is 13 months.

I didn't breastfeed Matt. I wasn't familiar with breastfeeding since no one I knew breastfed and the only "lactivists" I knew were pretty strong. Not supportive and understanding, more overbearing know-it-alls who continually put me down, kwim? So I did bottle feed Matt, but I bottle-nursed. I didn't KNOW I was bottle-nursing, I just did. Several years later I was telling someone how I bottlefed Matt and she said, "oh, you bottle-nursed." Um...okay...sure. So I came home and googled bottle-nursing and sure enough, that's what I did. Okay...

Jessica was born a year and 3 days later and I had decided to breastfeed. Not just "give it a try". But definitely, 100%, breastfeed. No bottles, no pacis. Well, I ended up having full-blown toxemia with her, had to be induced. I didn't have an epidural, but I had to have magnesium which made me really sick. I breastfed her within minutes after birth and things seemed okay, but I really felt awful. This particular hospital had (supposedly) the BEST LC's around. All the LLL people were telling me that this hospital was the best as far as breastfeeding. So on our second night there when a very nice nurse suggested she take the baby for the night and bottle-feed, I was confused. I had heard/read about nipple confusion. Nonsense, the nurse said. A baby this young CANNOT get nipple confusion (aka PREFERENCE). And it can do wonders for a new mom's milk supply to get a full night of sleep. *****WRONG***** That was the begininng of the end for us. Her billirubin levels went sky high (low-to-mid twenties). The more I supplemented, the less she was interested in nursing. Finally, in desperation, I called LLL and the leader suggested an SNS. So I ordered an SNS, it took 10 days to arrive, and by that time my attempts at BF'ing were futile. I tried for 4 months, but she just never was happy...even with the SNS. I was tired, and in hindsight I'm sure I had PPD, but it was undiagnosed so I was a wreck, to say the least. I gave up BF'ing and totally regretted it, but settled into a good routine with bottles. At least SHE was happy even if I wasn't.

So I have baby #3, 5 years later. I am NOT going to make the same mistakes. I co-slept, BF'd on demand. Let her stay latched on for hours and hours and hours upon end. I ate lactogenic foods, took herbs from the beginning, drank Mother's Milk Tea...and let her nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. Despite all that, she kept losing weight, and losing and losing and losing. Her billirubin levels went down...that was a good sign...but she kept losing weight. On our worst day, I took her to a LLL meeting and 3 leaders and a doula said they strongly suggested supplementing. At first I supplemented with bottles (what was I thinking?) and I pumped. I got super tired of that routine...Nurse, bottle, pump and then 1 1/2 - 2 hours do it all over again, plus I was homeschooling the older two.

So I dug out that SNS and it literally saved our nursing relationship. Unfortunately we were never able to get rid of the SNS. I tried a few times, but she was never satisfied with breast alone (even when we started solids). Finally now that's over a year we seem to be weaning from the SNS.

I've taken herbs, domperidone (seems to help a lot). I also was fortunate this time around to have an OB/GYN knowledgeable about BF'ing. They did bloodwork and found that I have higher than normal estrogen levels. Estrogen suppresses prolactin. I also have symptoms of PCOS (although I don't have any cysts), but I do have facial hair and weight gain around the middle. I also have widely spaced breasts that are small in proportion to the rest of my body (possibly a sign of IGT or hypoplasia). All those factors together make BF'ing difficult, but not impossible.

[orca]

I also had difficulty with breastfeeding because of breast reduction surgery in my early twenties. While I am much more comfortable and don’t regret the surgery in my day to day life, it was devastating once I discovered the true difficulty of breastfeeding with a reduced supply. I falsely believed that because I had the “newest” procedure available where they leave the nipple attached during the operation and pull all the ducts and nipple up into the new breast like a button into a button hole that breastfeeding would still be an option. My surgeon assured me that I would still be able to breastfeed. My whole pregnancy I didn’t even consider formula or bottles because I was sure that I could do it myself. I saw numerous lactation consultants & public health nurses to get things going. My son was large at birth (9.4lbs) so he was a voracious eater from the start and my low supply was not keeping him happy. My midwives set me up with a lactation aid and an electric breast pump on the first day. My routine was to nurse “normally” for 5-10 min then attach the lactation aid and continue feeding until DS was satisfied. I would then pump for 20 -30 minutes to stock up for the next feed. I would only get 2 to 3 ounces total from both breasts in that time. I was exhausted! Once I had finished the routine, sterilised the equipment and had something to eat I was back at it again! 24 hours a day. When DS was three weeks old he was hospitalised with a raging UTI and I was so stressed out that my milk virtually dried up. I continued pumping with less and less success and began to add formula to the lactation aid. I had terrible blisters on my nipples from the pump, but persevered for 12 weeks. I gave up pumping at that point and just put DS at my breast for as long as he would and then made him a bottle, held him close and tried not to feel incredibly guilty. Once DS got a taste of the bottle he was done with me and would no longer latch on. It was way easier and faster for him to go straight to the bottle. I discovered MDC after I was through all this and wish I had known about the various herbs and teas that can increase milk production. I will definitely try them next time! It was a very difficult time. I could not leave the house at all. When we did go to visit family I had so much “stuff” to take with me and would end up attached to a baby or a pump the whole time. It was much easier to just stay home. I am so envious of women who breast feed with such ease. My sister has a fabulous nursing relationship with her babe! It makes me sad knowing that I could have had that if I had only known to wait until I was done having children to have the surgery.

[Citykid]

Hi everyone, I'm Noemi and I hope to be a graduate from this tribe one of these days. My first child, Akiva, is 3.5 weeks old now and I still can only pump a half ounce at a time. But I'm not giving up yet.

I had to be induced because of ruptured membranes with meconium in the water and my labor didn't start on its own for 12 hours. Pitocin contractions were more than I could handle so to my shame I took an epidural. Akiva was born with a lot of meconium in his belly and had his stomach pumped several times. After that he wouldn't latch but I was so glad to finally hold him I didn't care. We resisted giving him formula for 28 hours but when he still hadn't latched and was screaming with hunger we gave in. I got on a pump right away and initially I had nothing. Those first two days were also full of at least a dozen people grabbing his head roughly and shoving him onto my breast, and pinching my nipples til I cried out trying to elicit a drop of colostrum.

We started with an LC the next day and initially her suggestions worked. He learned to latch and I got a little milk. But then we plateaued. We use the SNS at my breasts exclusively for feedings now and he takes about 3.5 oz of formula that way. I feel he's not getting much BM or he wouldn't take that much formula. Once a day I'm able to give him a feeding of breastmilk - yeah it takes me 24 hours to save up 3.5 oz. I pump right after I feed him - I tried pumping in between feedings but I got even less when he hadn't stimulated me first. I take fenugreek and mother's milk drops and I eat oatmeal every day and I just finished a 3-day trial of stout beer. Every once in a while I get a whole ounce at the pump and then I walk on air for a while thinking my milk's finally coming in. But it always goes back to my usual trickle. :

I'm trying to stay positive but it's very hard. I have not heard of a woman in my situation who was able to move to exclusiver BFing. It's breaking my heart.

Where I'm at now is deciding how much longer I'll keep trying and when it'll be okay to give him a bottle so we can leave the house. I wouldn't be a good mother if I kept him inside all summer because we're chained to the SNS and the pump! Also on my mind is what would giving up mean? When he eats from the SNS at my breast it's so sweet and I don't want to give that up. Also there would be a big mourning issue for me to deal with if I give up on my milk. But where where where is my milk? I can't believe my body can't do it, and yet - where is it? Very weepy these days.

[edited for typos]

[Gianna'sMom]

Is this the new thread in which us low suppliers should be posting? Should I get rid of my other bookmark at "Low Supply Tribe" and bookmark this one?

Should I write an intro of myself again?

How are you all?

Thankfully, after months of resolve to get my baby back the breast we are still breastfeeding full time and taking 120mg of Dom per day. I still can't believe how well that medicine has worked for me. I went from producing about 1oz (combined, both breasts) of milk every 4 hours to about 6-8oz (depending on the time of day) every 4 hours. Like I've said previously, I finally know what it is like to nurse with an ample milk supply. I owe it all to you ladies here at this thread, and to that magic pill, Domperidone!

In other news, my husband deployed this past weekend for a 3-month TDY and I am stuck up here in Alaska with no family and a little baby to care for! I am feeling kinda lonely and am missing his company so much already. I know this is off topic, but it's my biggest concern right now! I'm starting to know what it might feel like to be a single mom and let me tell you, I have the utmost respect for any woman raising a child(children) on her own!

I hope you are all well!

Lisa

[Shell_Ell]

Just marking my spot!

My name is Michelle, DS is Riley, he's 8.5 months old and we're still nursing! I will have to post an intro later. He's about to wake up from a nap.

[scubamom]

i am a long time lurker, and have learnt lots from everyone here.

I have 2 sons,one is 2 and the other is 10 weeks old. I was hoping 2nd time round not to have the problems i faced the first time, but i think i knew in my heart we would.
With ds #1 we had chronic supply issues from the start with excessive weight loss and high bilirubin levels. We were pretty much on dom and using a SNS within the first 2 weeks. I found dom helped but not dramatically, i managed to deal with my feeling of loss, helplessness and anger at my own body and we BF for 10 months, although with lots and lots of formula. When i did pump i barely got half an ounce so after a while i had to give it up as just too hard on me emotionally. I did to come to terms with everthing and feel that with the SNS i had a great BF relationship with my son. Nothing soothed him more than his mommys breast.

Before we started trying for ds #2 i wanted answers as to why and if anything i could do to help out b4 i got pg, no answers even after thyroid and hormonal tests. What Dr has told me since is that she thinks i have PCOS, plus add to that widely spaced breasts, with an underdeveloped look and no changes during pg i think i am destined never to have more than a dribble of milk. But i try everthing, and have just ordered some goats rue as i heard can help develop breast tissue esp when PCOS or breast reduction surgery, i will let you know how it works.

But to cut a very long story shorter, same thing is happening with ds #2, although i was more prepared emotionally this time, so although i am still grieving the fact that i will never exclusively BF, i have come to the conclusion that formula is not the devil. Last time i hated the fact that i had to give it him, but i know it is what enables my son to grow and thrive and helps make nursing a pleasant experience as he isnt frustrated at the breast when i use formula in the SNS.
So for you mammas with new young babies hang in there, even this time i wanted to quit, as so upsetting and i kept thinking whats the point i have virtually no milk. But i set myself challanges of a week at a time, and it got easier to deal with. My son still gets the closeness of Bf, the great jaw development, and i think that even though very little milk it is still jam packed full of the good immunity stuff. What i have learned through all this is that BF not just about milk, and i am trying every day to just enjoy having my baby at my breast

[JenInMpls]

howdy,

It's me Jen, mom to T who is 20 months old now. T was always a good nurser, people commented that he has a "higher than usual" palate, and like Claudia, I have widely spaced breasts that could be indicitive of hypoplasia or at least insufficient milk glands. We SNS'ed for 14 months until T was willing to take a sippy cup at night when he wanted milk, as opposed to "nis". Now he "nis"es about 5 times a day, getting maybe an ounce each time, but he doesn't care at all - he's a boob man

My most delightful moment on this journey was just last week when he was nursing, looked at me, grinned with nipple in his mouth, dribbled milk, and latched off to say "mama mils - gooooot!" (we speak German at home, but I think you can figure it out - mama milk, gooooood!).

Glad we've finally got a home. jen

[TurboClaudia]

jen: i'm laughing at the "boob man" comment about T! i have a nursing necklace that spells out "boob man" on it for our little one... :

and lisa, yes, this a new thread to add to the old, overwhelmingly long one, so bookmark or subscribe to this one. (at the top of the page for the thread, there is a drop down menu on the middle right that says "Thread Tools" and you can select "Subscribe to this thread" and choose options for notification (like no email notification, email notification, etc.)) i'm so excited to hear about your pumping successes while on the dom! how is G doing at the breast? any better?

welcome to all the re-visitors and to the lurkers coming out of hiding and the new mamas! wish you didn't have to be here and sending you all milky vibes...

~claudia

[mom2ken1cam2]

Our story

I posted this in the bf challenges and then found this tribe and thought I might post here too! I am new to this but have received so much info from lurking! I had bf challenges with #1 but was told and thought myself it was due to having gall bladder surgery when son was 6 weeks old. He was losing weight and we started supplementing at 2 months old. I was so emotional over this and didn't understand why I wasn't able to provide all the nutrition he needed. I, like others I've read, cried through the 1st bottle I gave him I just KNEW #2 would be different and I would be able to strictly bf like I was made to do! We were in the hospital after having #2 and having troubles already! I started pumping from the get go! I was told he was a "sleepy" baby...after dehydrating twice and having to watch them put an IV in his little head we gave in and started supplementing with a bottle (we were syringe feeding). He is now 8 weeks old and rarely goes to the breast but I'm STILL pumping every 2-3 hours! UGH! I'm at a breaking point and don't know how long I can do this, but I also can't let it go either! I'm getting 1-2 ozs (about 13 ozs in 24hrs.). I've been working closely with amazing LCs and have been on Fenugreek and Blessed Thistle and an contemplating using Domperidone! Any advice/help/encouragement would be appreciated!

[Citykid]

I just had to share my hopeful signs...

Starting yesterday my left breast LEAKED when it was time for him to eat! for the first time! and I leaked a bit in bed last night too. Still only 1/2 ounce in the pump, but I'm taking it as a sign of progress anyway.

And just now, at this feeding that's currently going on, I found that I could squirt my breasts! This also has never happened before. My routine is to nurse him "bare" a bit before taping on the tube, and while doing that just now (actually an hour and a half ago, but who's counting) I found that I could squirt. So whenever he slowed down I detached him and squirted into his mouth, which made him wild to latch back on. How fun! He's on the tube now because after an hour he clearly wasn't satisfied yet. But I'm so excited I wanted to share. Now off to pump.

[tash11]

I am BFAR. I have posted this before, but heres a recap for those that missed it (and some new info)...

Before we even knew what my supply was we had some problems getting her to latch on. I just didnt know how and neither did she. She had a good suck. and she was born at home with no suctioning or anything like that. My milk came in when she was 50 hours old, and that night we finally had a good nursing session. I could feel my other breast getting engorged while she nursed though. We both went to sleep and in the morning I was compleatly engorged. We could no longer latch on at all. On day 4 we managed to get an appnt with a LC, my baby had lost about a pound since birth. the LC gave us a finger feeder, and told us to rent a hospital grade pump (I had been trying to pump with my isis, but again I didnt really know how). she also gave us instructions to feed every two hours, first we were to try to latch on, if that didnt work after a few minutes to finger feed her pumped milk and if needed supplement (organic soy formula) to make at least 1.5oz total. My husband would finger feed her while I then iced (to take down the engorgement) and then pump. We didnt get very much sleep. I was pumping just under an oz though After a day or so of this we finally got her to latch on and we stopped doing the pumpings. I had wanted to continue pumping after feedings but she didnt really stop feeding, ever.

It took about a month to get back up to her birth weight (7lbs4oz). And we did have to keep supplementing. We tried to go without the supplement, but she didnt gain any weight. (we were having weight checks twice a week until things were better) At first it was just finger feeding. Then we used the finger feeder like an sns. Then it broke and I got a lact-aid. (this was around the same time that she started taking more then the 2oz that the finger feeder could hold at a time).

I started taking mothers milk tea, then fenugreek pills, now I am taking more milk special blend. I feel fuller and leak more when I dont forget to take it. Because of this (and her not acting so hungrey) I tried to get her off the supplement. so I have been weighing her every week and she gained 3oz, then stayed the same, then lost an oz. this is over the past month. I think I need to give her more supplement

[MarcyC]

Citykid - Congratulations on the leaking!!!

[Moonprysm]

Let's see if I can try this again...I tried to post earlier and the window got closed accidentally. lol

I was directed to this forum by some people on my UC board, and I'm looking forward to the support and encouragement of others who are in/have been in my situation.

I was scheduled to be induced a month early due to pre-eclampsia. My water decided to break on its own the morning of my induction. I had to have magnesium sulfate, pitocin, and antibiotic (since I was only 35 weeks 6 days and hadn't been tested for GBS yet). He was born after a 7 hour med-free labor at 5 lbs 8 oz. I tried to get him straight to the breast, but he was sleepy and sluggish due to the mag.

I tried to nurse him the 3 days we were in the hospital, but felt that something just wasn't right. Before we left, the nurse told us that the shaking spells that he'd been having were due to low blood sugar, and suggested that we start supplementing. (I found out later that it was simply a reflex that preemies have, and I honestly believe that had we not supplemented that day that my milk would have come in just fine).

We saw a lactation consultant twice, who suggested we start using Avent bottles to supplement, and that I pump after every feeding. I had the same expirence as many mothers I've read on here - my days were nurse DS, give him his bottle, pump, then start all over again. I went on Fenugreek (which didn't help at all) and between the first and second visit with the LC, DS gave up all together on nursing. The LC gave us a nipple shield, which got him back to the breast, but we have yet to wean him off of it.

I got my OB to prescribe me some domperidone, but she only gave me a very low dose, and only a week's supply. It didn't help much at all. I'm currently on a spree of doing everything I know possible...I have more Fenugreek and Dom coming in the mail, I'm drinking mother's milk tea with a tincture of blessed thistle in it, and I am currently on a "nursing vacation" where today he has been nursing since 1pm until 8pm straight, and still had to have a bottle!

He's 8 weeks old now, and I'm determined to continue breastfeeding at least until 6 months IF I cannot get my supply up. It's a very depressing situation - I had planned on self-weaning and hopefully nursing for several years, and now I may have to give up at 6 months just due to the stress on both of us right now.

[Moonprysm]

*edited for duplicate entry*

[MaryJaneLouise]

Moonprysm -- have you tried taking a higher dose of Domperidone? See my post here about FAQ Domperidone for more info about ordering it etc.

[Moonprysm]

Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise

Moonprysm -- have you tried taking a higher dose of Domperidone? See my post here about FAQ Domperidone for more info about ordering it etc.

I have some coming in the mail right now. I coudln't find the dosage instructions on the websites in your post, though... My OB only prescribed 30mg/day for a week. So I decided to just go ahead and order some online since she obviously wasn't aware of how much it can take to boost your supply.

[mom2ken1cam2]

Moonprysm-WOW I can't believe your story...have you been a fly on the wall in my house?? We went through all of that...from the shaking spells in the hospital to the Avent bottles for supplementing. I just order some Dom also (haven't tried it yet, only Fenugreek, Blessed Thistle and Mother's milk tea). I'm praying this will be the one to boost my supply!!! I haven't tried the nipple shield yet (I've been a little afraid), but I guess I should since I pump after every feeding anyway!! Well, keep us posted...it's good to know there are others out there, although I hate hearing others are going through the same things!! :

[Moonprysm]

Well, my son went on a 9 hour nursing spree yesterday!! Of course, now it's left me totally confused. After 9 hours of nursing, I still had milk left! You would think I'd be completely slam empty...he only got 3 or 4 bottles yesterday and he slept through the night last night.

I'm so afaid of moving to nursing only because I don't want him to start losing weight and such. He still very much wanted those bottles that I gave him...but why did I have milk left after 9 hours of nursing?? None of this makes any sense to me. I'm going to try to go back to a regular schedule tomorrow (nursing then pumping at least every 3 hours) instead of keeping him latched constantly and I'll see how much I get from pumping...

Rawr. It's so frustrating when your body won't do what it was meant to do. *sighs*