What is "Normal" Masturbatory Behaviour?

[KatyMom]

A recent thread has gotten me thinking...What is "normal" masturbatory behavior in a 5yo girl? How do you define "normal"?

This little girl masturbated in front of two older males, age 28 and 15, that where at her house for the day. Her masturbation was a bit more than rubbing or "twaddleing" and she demanded "watch me, watch me".

I found that (based on my own personal experiences as an abused child and as a mother to an 8yo daughter) this child exhibited a more advanced level of masturbation than what I have been exposed to by this age group. I also found the child's use of her body in a sexual way to garner the attention of a developmentally challenged 28 yo man and a 15 yo man-child to be disturbing.

I have found that by this age most girls understand that while masturbation is not taboo, it is something that should be done in privacy. I have also found that by this age, most girls have a natural tendency to exhibit more modesty when it comes to their bodies.

I also was struck by the fact that the child bolted from the room when the mother called. This shows that on some level she knew that what she was doing was inappropriate (not that, that has ever stopped any child on the planet before. LOL).

So my question is...Is this a normal behavior that I have just not been exposed too? Or, is this an abnormal behavior? I'm curious if, perhaps, my own history of abuse is clouding my interpretation of the situation. Any resources or references that anyone can provide would be appreciated.

[bewitchedmama]

here is some info that might clarify
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/101/4/e9
http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/research.htm

my 2 cents

[KatyMom]

Originally Posted by bewitchedmama

here is some info that might clarify
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/101/4/e9
http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/research.htm

The following is from the ethicaltreatment.org link

Conclusion
1. We do not know what constitutes normal childhood sexual behavior or feelings from a scientific perspective.

2. Sexual behavior varies drastically among different groups of people due to their values, social class, and culture. Sexual feelings and behaviors also vary widely among youth due to individual differences and variations in development.

3. It is apparent that large numbers of children at almost all ages may engage in more extensive behaviors with each other than we have realized, including adult-like behaviors such as genital and oral contact, and sometimes even intercourse.

4. Some of the behaviors mentioned above are harmful and abusive. However, many are socially unacceptable because they would be classified as immoral or indecent by many people, not because they are harmful.

__________________________________________________ ____

So, I guess the answer is no one can really define what is "normal" behaviour. It all seems to depend on social background, sexual knowledge at the time, and so many other factors. Thank you for the links, they were a fascinating read.

[BlueNote]

To me, personally, that seems a bit precocious. I would be concerned enough to research that child's history. I knew a girl who was similar to that when I was growing up and she was a victim of abuse. That's not to say that the girl you are describing is, not at all, but it could be a sign of it.

[yogachick79]

No, by that age DD knew that it was something that was done in private, in her room in by herself. We did have to gently talk about what was and was not appropriate, but it was never to that extent and even when she would start outside of her room (she was 3 at the time) she was doing it while she tried to fall asleep and was under a blanket. So even then it was not really a public display.

I know the thread that you are talking about and yes, that little girl's behavior sent off red flags in my mind as well as a lot of the OP.

[blessed]

Glad to see your thread.

I felt that the child in question was 'acting out' sexually. It was a defiant type of behavior, not happy, carefree or innocent in nature. Was it 'normal'? That would depend on your definition of normal. Was it 'typical'? Yes, this type of exhibitionist behavior is not unusual in children this age, including children who are not at concern for any particular pathology.

The disagreement was primarily whether this behavior proved that the child had been sexually abused by an adult, which I feel not to be the case.

Some children who are sexually abused tend to have oversexualization with inappropriate frequent sexual behavior despite attempts by parents and caregivers to monitor public behaviors. However, studies have shown that the most common predictive behaviors of sexual abuse are actually social withdrawal, delinquency, and other maladaptive social behaviors.

Precocious sexual knowlege did NOT predict abuse, but rather predicted sexual exposure. That might be cultural, due to differences in familial ideas of normalcy with regards to nudity or sexual activity in the presence of children. It might be due to play with older aged children who had greater sexual knowledge. And in some cases it is due to sexual abuse.

Interestingly, as many as one third of sexually abused children demonstrate no signs or symptoms at all.

[Joannarachel]

Blessed, I didn't feel that the child's behavior *proved* that she had been abused, merely that it suggested that as a significant possibility, kwim?

I personally was fairly naive in my childhood about sex, touching, etc, probably due to a very repressed and born-again upbringing.

I don't remember any masturbatory behavior until I was about 10...and then it was more of..'what's down here?' rather than 'that feels good'.

[smeta]

I have a 5 y.o. dd and she knows she should only touch herself in privacy. Yet, I don't think it is something she would be ashamed of and want to hide from me. Maybe the girl's mother shames touching and that is why she bolted when she called?? Exhibiting herself in front of the men does seem strange though.

[KatyMom]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by blessed

Glad to see your thread.

Thank you. Before the moderator stepped in, I had extended an offer to discuss this issue on a seperate thread. Amazing what stepping away can do for your POV.

I felt that the child in question was 'acting out' sexually. It was a defiant type of behavior, not happy, carefree or innocent in nature. Was it 'normal'? That would depend on your definition of normal. Was it 'typical'? Yes, this type of exhibitionist behavior is not unusual in children this age, including children who are not at concern for any particular pathology.

I agree that 'typical' is a more appropriate wording for my question. I had wanted to read the links that you provided, I just didn't get a chance before they were gone. If you feel that it would contribute to my understanding of the subject, then please provide the links again.

The disagreement was primarily whether this behavior proved that the child had been sexually abused by an adult, which I feel not to be the case.

Some children who are sexually abused tend to have oversexualization with inappropriate frequent sexual behavior despite attempts by parents and caregivers to monitor public behaviors. However, studies have shown that the most common predictive behaviors of sexual abuse are actually social withdrawal, delinquency, and other maladaptive social behaviors.

Precocious sexual knowlege did NOT predict abuse, but rather predicted sexual exposure. That might be cultural, due to differences in familial ideas of normalcy with regards to nudity or sexual activity in the presence of children. It might be due to play with older aged children who had greater sexual knowledge. And in some cases it is due to sexual abuse.

Interestingly, as many as one third of sexually abused children demonstrate no signs or symptoms at all.

No offense, but I really don't want to rehash the original thread. I'm seeking to expand my knowledge of childhood behaviors beyond my abuse clouded perceptions of 'normal' and 'abnormal'.

[BlueNote]

I don't think that behavior is normal. I have never seen that type of behavior in a child that young. Or even an older child. It is odd.

[EStraiton]

My middle dd did/does this more often than dh and I thought children should - dh and I always worried that if someone else was to see this they would surely suspect something was wrong at home which there is not. So, we talked to her pediatrician numerous times who assured us that some children just do this more frequently than others. For our dd, she is a bit high strung and I think it is a release of tension for her. As for the "watch me" ... I'm not so sure I would suspect abuse.... I'm sure my dd could say something like that too if she really didnt understand what she was doing was perceived as sexual.. to her it just makes her feel calm. HTH

edited to say that my dd only did this in public as a toddler but i would need to see or 'sense' other situations that pointed towards abuse before i approached it.

[blessed]

[QUOTE=KatyMom]

No offense, but I really don't want to rehash the original thread. I'm seeking to expand my knowledge of childhood behaviors beyond my abuse clouded perceptions of 'normal' and 'abnormal'.

Actually the very paragraphs you quoted here summarize current findings from the literature on these subjects.

Here, I'll repost it in case you missed it.

Some children who are sexually abused tend to have oversexualization with inappropriate frequent sexual behavior despite attempts by parents and caregivers to monitor public behaviors. However, studies have shown that the most common predictive behaviors of sexual abuse are actually social withdrawal, delinquency, and other maladaptive social behaviors.

Precocious sexual knowlege did NOT predict abuse, but rather predicted sexual exposure. That might be cultural, due to differences in familial ideas of normalcy with regards to nudity or sexual activity in the presence of children. It might be due to play with older aged children who had greater sexual knowledge. And in some cases it is due to sexual abuse.

Interestingly, as many as one third of sexually abused children demonstrate no signs or symptoms at all.

[blessed]

Ran across this website sponsored by Stop It Now! The Campaign to Prevent Child Sexual Abuse. I thought they've done a nice job of cataloguing characteristics of abused kids, of abusers, and also of healthy sexual behviors. http://www.stopitnow.com/warnings.html#behavioral

Here are the warning signs of abuse in kids. You can see that the majority are not sexual in nature, but rather behavioral. I cited a different source earlier which found that as many as a third of sexually abused kids don't demonstrate any signs or symptoms.

Nightmares, trouble sleeping, fear of the dark, or other sleeping problems.
Extreme fear of "monsters".
Spacing out at odd times.
Loss of appetite, or trouble eating or swallowing.
Sudden mood swings: rage, fear, anger, or withdrawal.
Fear of certain people or places (e.g., a child may not want to be left alone with a baby-sitter, a friend, a relative, or some other child or adult; or a child who is usually talkative and cheery may become quiet and distant when around a certain person).
Stomach illness all of the time with no identifiable reason.
An older child behaving like a younger child, such as bed-wetting or thumb sucking.
Sexual activities with toys or other children, such as simulating sex with dolls or asking other children/siblings to behave sexually.
New words for private body parts.
Refusing to talk about a "secret" he/she has with an adult or older child.
Talking about a new older friend.
Suddenly having money.
Cutting or burning herself or himself as an adolescent.

Also, this is what they caution represents 'healthy sexuality' in preschoolers, and not indicative of abuse:

Preschool (0-5 yrs.)
Common: Sexual language relating to differences in body parts, bathroom talk, pregnancy and birth. Masturbation at home and in public. Showing and looking at private body parts.

Uncommon: Discussion of sexual acts. Contact experiences with other children.

Anyway, I just thought they did a nice summary for folks.

[blessed]

Here is 'healthy sexuality' for older ages:

School Age (6-12 yrs.)
Common: Questions about menstruation, pregnancy, sexual behavior. "Experimenting" with same-age children, including kissing, fondling, exhibitionism, and role-playing. Masturbation at home or other private places.

Uncommon: Use of sexual words and discussing sexual acts.

Adolescence (13-16 yrs.)
Common: Questions about decision-making, social relationships, and sexual customs. Masturbation in private. Experimenting between adolescents of the same age, including open-mouth kissing, fondling, and body rubbing. Also, voyeuristic behaviors. Sexual intercourse occurs in approximately one third of this age group.

[Roar]

I was unclear in your post...

Who is the child? And, are you planning to do something with this information.

The part I am not clear on is why you would see a five year old sexually acting out in front of men and not do something to intervene until the mother called and the child stopped it herself.

[blessed]

This is a spin off of another thread in which a child allegedly masturbated in front of male visitors. No members of MDC actually witnessed any part of the event.

Some people felt that this essentially was proof that the child was being sexually molested. Some felt that this was within the realm of normal sexual behavior in that age group and essentially meant nothing in the absence of other concerns for abuse. Most people believed that it was potentially a sign of a problem which warranted closer scrutiny.

This prompted a discussion regarding whether or not self stimulatory and exhibitionist behaviors were typical in preschool aged kids.

Voila. This thread.

[mommy68]

As I said in the other thread, I don't feel that a child this young is masturbating. I feel they are curious and exploring their body, yes. But there is a difference between the two AND a child needs to be corrected no matter what the situation is. If a child as young as 3 or 5 'says' they are masturbating then yes more than likely they have been told that is what they are doing by someone who has touched them wrongly. That is how I feel. How else would they know that word or know how to associate it to that? If a child that young is simply being curious then there is obviously nothing wrong with that. They all do that at some point.

But I still feel it's not proper in front of anyone, even parents. And there are ways to get it across to even a child as young as 5 yr old that it's something that is done in private so as not to make them think exploring their body is a bad thing. No one ever said you have to make the child think it's BAD to be curious about their own body, just when to be curious. As a parent it's part of our job to make sure our children are guided in all areas, even the most intimate private moments.

[rubelin]

I would be concerned if my 5 yr old did that. To me, normal exploratory masturbation is more along the vein of "that feels good, what is that?" etc. It is sometimes done in front of people but in a very unconscious way. A child who is doing it for attention and demanding attention for it sends up big red flags. Not that I'd be worried neccessarily about abuse, but I'd want to know where my kid learned that. Seeing another kid doing it would also make me question why they haven't been taught that that is private.