Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!! - Page 14

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by Gale Force
It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch. Annikate kept showing up delirious from lack of sleep. Bestbirths has sorely tempted everyone with illegal foods. And MT has been generally cantankerous. The thread had to get chopped in pieces by the moderator. I'm surprised it's still here, but welcome back. How are your vitamin D levels?

[Spencersmom]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

I use powdered starter mainly because I was having the comercial yogurt go bad before I used it up and then I never had the good stuff on hand when I needed it. This is just easier.

Nearly all herbs are legal on scd. Cinnamon is legal. Check out the legal/illegal list on breakingtheviciouscycle.org (?) for specific ones. I know that fenugreek isn't legal for example.

Pattyla - Thank you and feeling pretty dumb over here. Sorry. I forgot that herbs were listed on the legal/illegal list but I think I still would have been wondering if they could be used in the introduction.

I haven't made yogurt yet. (To anyone who wishes to reply) Would you tell me your favorite starter and why you like it? Does tartness of the yogurt come from the starter or how long it is left to culture? I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?

Thank you!

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by Spencersmom

I haven't made yogurt yet. (To anyone who wishes to reply) Would you tell me your favorite starter and why you like it? Does tartness of the yogurt come from the starter or how long it is left to culture? I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?

Thank you!

Yogourmet. Good, consistent, good #s of bacteria. Tartness depends on how long it is left to culture.

[chasmyn]

:So DH and I are starting to think we have dairy and possibly egg and maybe even nut sensitivities.

I could cry.

I cannot possibly do SCD without these three foods, can I? I certainly don't want to.

So I'm seeking a good naturopath to help us dx. Can you ladies recommend what to ask, what tests are best, etc?

I'm just so sad about this. Pretty soon all I'll be eating is meat, veggies and fruit. Sigh.:

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by Spencersmom
I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?

If you're adhering to the SCD then you can't use your own to start a new batch. Something about the certain strains of bacteria. This site tells why.

[Spencersmom]

I found it and thought I'd copy/paste it here in case anyone else is wondering. Thanks for the link.

Why can't I use the yoghurt I have made as a starter for the next batch?This would be a bad practice, the commercial yoghurt or starter powder we use as a starter has been produced under tightly controlled production methods and should not contain undesirable strains. If we use the yoghurt that we have produced with each generation other strains are likely to contaminate it and the existing bacteria can also mutate to undesirable strains

[toraji]

Originally Posted by chasmyn

:So DH and I are starting to think we have dairy and possibly egg and maybe even nut sensitivities.

Oh mama, I hear you. We have nut sensitivities, and I personally am sensitive to dairy. We can only eat eggs for one meal a day due to DH's digestive problems with them. Needless to say we are not doing SCD at the moment. I think I'd die without potatoes right now since winter squash in unavailable.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch. Annikate kept showing up delirious from lack of sleep. Bestbirths has sorely tempted everyone with illegal foods. And MT has been generally cantankerous. The thread had to get chopped in pieces by the moderator. I'm surprised it's still here, but welcome back. How are your vitamin D levels?

Thank you for the welcome!
D levels are not so high, it rained a lot. :

We had fun though! But DS got some weird spots... I have no idea what they are!! Seems to be smaller than bug bites, although there were some mosquitos around but several in his diaper area which I know cannot be bites. Some have a bit of a head, again unlike a bug bite... somewhat itchy but not too bad. Any thoughts?

He's had shellfish before so I didn't think they were hives from that (he didn't eat much, we gave him nightmares from lobster night. Everything else he ate was what he always eats (unless DH's family fed him illegals.)

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

It should be fine. The bigger issue I have with frozen milk is that if you use it as you defrost it, the frozen middle part ends up being skim milk. Usually most of the cream has risen to the top by the time I freeze it and then it defrfosts around the sides, top, and bottom and leaves a fat-free frozen piece in the middle.

If you remember to shake while freezing it helps this.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by AmyD

We use progurt, and I really love it ('bout to order more in fact). And we have had great experience w/it--it is always a very very tart yogurt. In fact, it is downright inedible w/o raspberries and honey. I know Jane had a bottle that did nothing to her yogurt, but that has not been my experience.

We also can't do dairy, so I need a cow free starter for my goat yogurt--and white egret farm never processed my order nor returned my phone call. :

I like Progurt but find that I need to use more than 1/4 tsp. per 2 qts or use a bit of last batch as well.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by New Mama

I have a question for you all -- my dad has been having severe stomach pain and has been on a liquid diet for almost a week now. He's having it looked into, but in the meantime my mom has asked me for advice on what to feed him. I suggested smoothies made with a base of yogurt and maybe some protein powder. I'm going to the HFS for her tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what to buy.

Thanks!

Check 'Goatein' by Garden of Life protein powder although I echo the raw milk and bone broths suggestions. Also you might try to find liquid colostrum too, my dairy coop has it available.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Siana

Re: Supplements

I also still have very little supplements in my diet. I really feel the need for Mag. and I'd love to get the Brainchild vitamins and/or minerals for Galen. Given that he almost exclusively drinks mama milk (yes, at 20-months-old!), and mama is so depleted, I don't think he's getting sufficient from me. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I like the Brainchild Ultra Sensitive minerals for DS. I do not like the vitamins, they have the bad form of vitamin C and only caretenoids, not true vitamin A.

Cod liver oil is absolutely essential. I like natural vitamin C, the amla powder from Himalaya or Paradise Herbs.

As an aside, I think DS is having trouble again with the mag. citrate too. I wonder if this allow yeast to grow if not all absorbed, I seem to recall reading that before ... ?

I'm at a loss as to another mag. source for him as getting bone broths into him now is impossible.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Siana

Argh. I don't know how you moms do it, but I feel like my head is going to explode. More stress. Just what I need. : I can't think straight any more. I just can't.

We bang our heads and cry! I seriously have at least one major meltdown about DS every single week, I just don't post about it.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Siana

I've been really reluctant to post here since I've been off SCD, but looks like I'm at square one now (surprise, surprise!).

I went to my ND a month ago, and she told me SCD was overkill for me, and that given my ethnicity (mostly Indian - from India) I needed rice etc.. She said all my prblems were stress related (which I believe) but I don't completley agree with her approach for me. For the first week after the reintroduction of some foods, I had splitting headaches, and the D. returned. It settled down a bit after that, but I'm back to almost exclusively having D. I want to go back to SCD so badly, but my DP has made it clear he would like me to do this under the approval (?) of a Dr.. I'm taking this time to also figure out our finances since I fiund SCD was breaking the bank.

In the mean time, I visited the drop-in clinic close to my house, and asked for a referral to a GI specialist. The Dr. I saw declined because I have no preliminary testing. I have an appointment with an Internist on Tuesday. I need to get my facts together so I can present him my case, but I'm in no shape to do reasearch at this time (I can barely write a message here, and then need to rest for a while because I feel so tired staring at this screen, and my head hurts )

I'm reasonably sure that the internist hasn't heard of SCD (though he might surprise me, but it's very unlikely), but I really just want to "sell" it to him Yes, I'm being sneeky, but I'm at the point of desperation, and really need this now for my sanity. I have my food journals from a few months, but I've found I don't keep the journal updated when I feel crappy... I haven't documented in the last month, goes to show how great I've been doing since coming off SCD

So, tell me mamas, what sort of documentation can I provide the Internist as proof that SCD works? (or something along those lines). I'm going to take BTVC along, but I find the book too simplistic to really sell someone on the idea (I wasn't sold by just reading that anyway). I'm going to print off the Canadian list of Dr.'s who are SCD friendly. Will that help? (http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/doctors.html)

There is just so much information out there, that I'm considering just giving him the most important links. Can anyone do my homework for me, and just suggest to be the most informative webpages (specific pages, not entire sites, since he won't have time to look through it all).

Also, I plan on suggesting Enzyme therapy to him, as one course of action. Of course I'll only want to take SCD friendly enzymes I wonder how open he'll be with that?

Any sort of support would be wonderful, since I'm in worse place now mentally than I remember being in before SCD. *Sigh* I've been graining weight (only grain reintro. is rice, but I eat potatoes occassionally too). My stress levels are still very much elivated. I'm taking up yoga to help with clearing my mind, and I really hope I can go back to SCD -- with everyone in my home being happy about it -- very soon. I need to stop worrying about the money.

I have no idea how to handle speking with conventional Dr.'s. The one at the drop in clinic was very condescending when I told him blood tests for celiacs would be pointless at this time. He was a really ass about it, but he's just one Dr. and I really hope the Internist will be different (in a good sense of course)!

Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I feel like this is never going to end. The diet clearly isn't working all that great without probiotics of some sort, and I can't buy the really good probiotic supplement that is $5 a day...I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with my issues forever and that DD will have food allergies forever, too

I'm right there with you. I had one angry little boy on my hands last week. DS has never been exposed to such junk food as he did while we were on vaca with DH's family. He wanted so many things and he couldn't have them. I was in tears several times about it b/c he's STILL not okay even with his limited diet. Contrast this with 2 teenagers who are lovely, even tempered, the picture of health, eating complete and total crap. He will never ever be that carefree and it absolutely kills me. I worry what this is doing to him psychologically.

You know it was truly mind blowing how many different kinds of food can be made from the small combination of sugar, white flour, transfats and artificial colors and how they can be eaten at every meal.

[caedmyn]

At what point do I decide this diet isn't going to work for us and try something else? The only improvements we've seen in two months are 1) DD's bloody poop went away (until the goat yogurt/Candidase fiasco)...and that could have been just due to my eliminating dairy 2) I have less gas than I used to, but I still have a fair amount, and 3) DD's sleep patterns have changed. She now takes longer naps and goes down for her naps better (probably due to me instituting an invariable nap routine), but sometimes takes 2 hours to finally stay asleep at night, which never happened before, plus she has been waking up twice a night instead of once a night or even no night wakings.

I'm thinking of trying an actual candida diet--the one I'm looking at is only meat, eggs, and low carb veggies (same as SCD veggies but no carrots, peas, or winter squash). I know I'm not digesting nuts well at all, so I really need to stop them anyway.

[caedmyn]

Does anyone want to read this article and try to explain it to me...I'm very confused. It basically says the leaky gut theory is a bunch of hooey. I have to post the whole article and not a link as it is a file on a yahoo group.

Leaky Gut Theory Cannot Be True
By Bee Wilder
June 1, 2006

In order to discuss the leaky gut theory we first have to start by discussing allergy testing. First of all even the medical community agrees that allergy tests are inconclusive, and that clinical evidence must also be considered before making a final decision about whether a person has a "true" allergy or not.

Here's a quote from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003519.htm
"The accuracy of allergy testing varies quite a bit. Even the same test performed at different times on a person may give different results. A person may react to a substance during testing, but never react during normal exposure. A person may also have a negative allergy test and yet still be allergic to the substance." Also, even doctors know that some tests assess the levels of immune responses which are not necessarily related to an allergy.

In order to do allergy tests the “actual food" or "whole food" cannot be used because they need a form that can be injected under the skin, or in liquid form to test in blood samples (when they test blood samples they add the substance to the blood and then check it for reactions, mostly for antibodies) – the antibody theory is another whole subject that doesn’t hold up to common sense either. Therefore they use a substance contained in the food that is suspected of causing reactions. To test peanuts they use peanut protein, which is not the whole peanut. To test eggs they use egg protein, and so on.

I first started to suspect the whole allergy field when my girlfriend died of cancer May 10, 2005. She was already very ill, and her allergy tests done in February indicated she was allergic to almost everything under the sun, including almost all meats and numerous vegetables. That didn't make sense to me, so I wondered if they use grass-fed beef or free-range certified organic eggs in the tests. They don't, of course. They use a fractionated substance, not the whole food, and I suspect they make them synthetically, although I couldn’t prove it. It stands to reason that reactions to one substance in a food, which may be synthetic, is very difference than reactions to the whole unadulterated food, complete with enzymes, nutrients, etc., not just the protein.

Did you know that what happens in a laboratory does not necessarily happen in the body, as proved by meats, which create acid when added to water in a laboratory, but they do not make acid in the body.

When I studied allergic reactions I found out they are exactly the same as healing reactions. This means that a person can "react" to a food, but if it is unadulterated whole food the reactions are healing reactions and not allergic reactions. See my complete article "Allergies, What They Are & How to Treat Them" in the Allergies Folder.

This leads us to the leaky gut theory, which does not make sense to me because of what I understand about digestion. First of all, food is almost totally digested and broken down into small particles by the time it leaves the duodenum (the part between the stomach and the small intestines).

The job of the intestines is mainly absorption. Here's an excerpt from "The Long Hallow Tube - A Primer in Digestion" (in our digestion folder): "Absorption [of food] takes place via the villi, small projections in the mucous membrane. Each villus has a network of capillaries through which the broken-down components of the food are absorbed. The nutrients then pass through the epithelial cells in the inner lining of the villi, at which point they enter the capillaries. The small intestine is attached to the rear abdominal wall by a thin sheet of membrane called the mesentery, which carries blood vessels to nourish the small intestine and carries absorbed nutrients to the liver and other parts of the body."

Villi in the intestines are covered by an outer layer of epithelium, which food must pass through before it gains entry into the villi. Epithelium is tissue composed of a layer of cells – note the word 'cells.' Epithelium lines both the outside (skin) and the inside (e.g. intestine) of organisms. The outermost layer of our skin is composed of dead squamous epithelial cells, as are the mucous membranes lining the inside of mouths and body cavities. Other epithelial cells line the insides of the lungs, the gastrointestinal tract, the reproductive and urinary tracts, etc. Please note that candida infects the outer layers of the epithelium of mucus membranes.

Functions of epithelial cells include secretion, absorption, protection, transcellular transport, sensation detection, and “selective permeability.”

If food is not digested into small enough particles it cannot pass through the epithelium cells of the villi, and it would pass out of the body as undigested food. Even the very tiny holes in the villa made by candida hyphae (threadlike filaments it puts out when it changes and starts to overgrow) would not allow food particles to pass through the layers of the villa into the blood stream. Candida is sticking it’s long feet into the epithelial cells, which will damages those cells for sure, but damaged epithelial cells cannot function so they wouldn't be able to absorb any food particles.

In other words, the cells lining the intestines do not allow large particles to pass through them – it is physically impossible – the cells themselves would have to enlarge somehow. Therefore large undigested food particles pass through the intestines, unabsorbed and out of the body, just like fibres. That blows the whole leaky gut theory out of the window, doesn’t it?

[Bestbirths]

One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey. We used the provocation neutralization testing method. The method of allergy testing chosen is important. Now, if I could afford it, my son would be getting EPD. Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization for our preferred allergy treatment of choice. It might be called something else now in the US. Cost for just one person would be $500 every 2 months. Sigh.

The leaky gut theory. I haven't researched enough, but the whole concept of digestive enzymes is based on it, and digestive enzymes are working for my child. My child couldn't stand much before going on the enzymes, his legs were little sticks with muscle wasting, and no fat. He can now stand, and he has grown, his chest has broadened, he has developed muscle in his legs, he has grown stronger. I think enzymes are a contributing factor in allowing him physically to be able to go out, and do things like a normal child would do. I am thinking that the digestive enzymes have greatly improved his nutrient absorption, cut down on his body attacking itself. The theory is that the undigested food particles are large, and when they leak through the gut, the immune system attacks the particles as a foreign object. Digestive enzymes break down the particles into smaller particles that fly under the radar of the immune systems defenses. Each one enzyme usually only works to break down one corresponding particle, which is why it is so beneficial to take many different enzymes. I saw a 2 hour long lecture by the creator of houston's enzymes, and he explained this.

[eilonwy]

Hello! I've never posted here, but I'm curious: what is "Healing the Gut?" What exactly are you healing it of? I've had major problems with fungus for the past 5 years or so (maybe longer ); is that the kind of problem that healing the gut addresses?

[april2462]

I believe that many different researchers are starting to understand a bit better the balancing act of bacteria, good and bad, that is the human gut. Bee's article is just his/her hypothesis, with no scientific studies to back up or test that hypothesis. For example, it would interesting to know exactly what happens to the epithelial cells when a gluten intolerant person (like me!) eats gluten - we do already know that the villi get damaged.

See here for some recent research on the effects of stress on rat gut permeability (lovely!) in which they talk about how the gut gets 'leaky'

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060520/food.asp

Of course that's just one set of researchers at one university! But I believe that the research is starting to come together, it's just the mainstream medical community is about a million years behind with absolutely no motivation to catch up to what all you mamas are figuring out for yourselves!