Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!! - Page 24

[EBG]

[QUOTE=moonshine]Edina, I just read about your struggles with your MIL. Gosh, this is all hard enough w/o people actively standing in your way! I am guessing that since you can't limit DD's exposure to the bad stuff at her grandparents, you can't limit her exposure to the source (MIL)?

Not really doable, they live down the street, it's hard to come up with excuses....

As for coconut, I'm not sure .... I have no problem with it. The oil is not supposed to need lipase but some people are still sensitive to it. The coconut meat is very fibrous though, maybe that's why. It's not technically a nut but every protein can be allergenic due to a leaky gut.

[greencat]

Yeast free, SCD legal sourdough bread?

Does anyone knows recipes for yeast free bread? It could be a flat bread, too.

I think there is a yeast free, sourdough bread (for people who follows Maker's Diet), but I don't have its recipe either. I would appreciate, if someone can post the recipe. ( I can improvise the wheat flour with bean or nut flour.)

Thanks

[Pattyla]

Finally figured out who I recently read does cranial work! It is the new naturopath at our Dr's office. I've got an appointment for DD with her for Thursday morning. Lots of fingers and toes crossed. Of course we'll see how it goes tomorrow with the new Dr too. Man this is going to be a busy week. And unfortunatly this means I need to cancel my Mother's helper for Thurs. AM.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by EBG

I think no enzyme will help with the caffeine. I know weak coffee is legal but I feel so much better without it.

As a habitual coffee drinker, I found this paper to be interesting.

From Acta Medica 2004: 47(4): 273-276
"The impairment of gastroduodenal mucosal barrier by coffee"
L'ubica Cibickova, Norbert Cibicek, Petr Zdansky, Pavel Kohout

Summary: Background: Even though coffee is not considered to be responsible for development of peptic ulcer, it may, however, prolong its healing by increasing acidity of gastric content. In our former work we observed a profound increase in sucrose permeability (above normal values) in healthy volunteers regularly drinking coffee for years. In literature, many
factors affecting sucrose permeability have been described so far. None of them, however, studied the effect of coffee.

Subjects, materials and methods: l0 young asymptomatic habitual coffee drinkers were included in the study. The probands underwent SaLM test twice - first time without coffee restriction and second time after 48-hour coffee abstinence. The ingested SaLM solution comprised sucrose (25.0 g), lactulose ( 10.0 e), mannitol (2.0 g), xylose (2.0 g) and water (up to 100 ml). Urine was collected for five hours and the samples were analysed using gas chromatography. Results were compared with those of 8 young healthy volunteers not drinking coffee. Permeability for sucrose was significantly higher in the group of habitual coffee drinkers in comparison with noncoffee drinkers (p<0.01). After 48-hour coffee abstinence sucrose excretion decreased significantly (p<0.05) to a level not differing from that of non-coffee drinkers (p=0.54).

Conclusions: Our results indicate that coffee may damage gastroduodenal mucosa in habitual coffee drinkers. In a time period of 48 hours the gastroduodenal mucosa is capable of a significant regeneration.

------

The group's recommendation is that patients undergoing an intestinal permeability test should avoid coffee for more than two days before taking the test. Those recommendations have not yet been included into Great Smokies' permeability test - they only require an 8 hour fast (including no water) prior to taking the test.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by EBG

Chlorine pool question:

If I can't forbid DD swimming in MIL's pool, would epsom salt baths help after the exposure? Or anything I can do to minimize the damage? Hope this summer will be short...

epsom salts and/or baking sode are supposed to help rid the body of toxins, so it might work.

i've been reading a little about the effect of chorine and the gut (there isn't a whole lot of work in this area). my problems got really bad after some bozo in the physical plant dept dumped chlorine (without measuring or testing) into the cooling tower which happens to be immediately adjacent to the air intake for our portion of the building. we had 30ppm of chlorine in our air for a while - EPA levels are <5ppm i think.

when certain proteins become chlorinated, they can contribute to inflammation and circumvent the adaptive immune system - thereby creating all sorts of havoc in the body. the big burning question is if chlorine exposure (through air or in water rather than forced as in a lab experiment) can cause proteins to become chlorinated and do this particular damage.

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by EBG

What kind of pimples? Do they look like whiteheads... red bumps with a white middle? My DD#1 has pimples every once in a while on her leg or butt or face and my bf baby too. I think it's die-off from yeast because they show up when I try to be more aggressive with the diet and antifungals. Like when I took candidase, DD's rash was like white heads :first one, then two-three and a few days later a bunch of them until I stopped a Candidase and it took her a week to clear. She has a few of them again since I started kefir.
My DD#1 is not breast-fed any more, but it's the diet and enzymes that cause the pimples IMO.
I'm not sure what you mean by fragile: bruising easy or whiney?
I tend to bruise easy, I think it's realted to gluten-sensitivity.

Yes, whiteheads. Only like 4, so no big thing. Haven't seen them since a few days ago.

Fragile? Easily set off and falling apart at the slightest provocation. Course, that could just be being a 2 yr old.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

Annikate, this is just what's happened with dd! Even with our diets being totally legal, the pool seems to have thrown us for a loop.

Chlorine kills off the good bacteria... if we are working so hard to increase it, pools should be off limits IMO. It's hard I know.

One of my best friends here in town and her son is DS's best friend, is seriously irritated at me about this. She wouldn't listen and get the more expensive non chlorine stuff (even though I would have paid the difference b/c we are over there for playdates every week at least once/twice.) Now we cannot go in there all summer and I don't even know how I'm going to break it to DS...

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by EBG

Chlorine pool question:

If I can't forbid DD swimming in MIL's pool, would epsom salt baths help after the exposure? Or anything I can do to minimize the damage? Hope this summer will be short...

Baquacil is non chlorine disinfectant for pools based on hydrogen peroxide that turns to oxygen http://www.baquacil.com/default.asp

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by greencat

I am a mom of two kids, age DS 2 and DD 4. We have been on SCD since last July (my kids suffer from chronic eczema.) Their eczema is food induced and we have a list of foods that we avoid eating. The list of foods that causes their itchy eczema is long (was longer before SCD), and some of the foods we avoid are grain/gluten, sugar, yeast, some spices, cuke family, berries, apples, grapes, beets, and most dairy.

I am looking for other people who are on SCD, fighting to control over growth of yeast/Leaky Gut Syndrome, or making SCD yogurt to increase colon friendly bacteria/probiotic, taking digestive enzyme(s) or have tried some form of detoxification.

Currently, I am personalizing the SCD with other anti-yeast diet (within SCD legal foods), Food Combination and body's acid-alkaline balance.

Greencat!

Yes, yes, yes and yes! DS's feet still flare up when his poop goes to mush but otherwise the high vitamin cod liver oil seems to control it now. Previously on evening primrose and quercetin as well. It was probably related to certain yeast/bacteria that lived on starches that we were able to knock down. Now we are still fighting other bacterial issues. He takes Zyme Prime and No Fenol with all meals and snacks but goes hyper with Peptizyde.

Re: book rec

Karen DeFelice's (they are both the same) is a must read for gut issues www.enzymestuff.com

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

Also, Jane (or anyone else), I wanted to ask if you were doing SCD in order to rid your ds of eczema and for how long. Since you're still following the diet, what other symptoms does he currently have that lead to you to continue "healing his gut"?

I don't have any good testimony here with respect to DS unfortunately. We are still in the weeds. His skin got better before the SCD with Elimination Diet and supplements as above post. Right now sleeping issues and bowel/digestive problems are our main concern. We've had stool tests done on him showing dysbiosis, Proteus mirabilis is the main bad bug we're fighting right now. It releases neurotoxins so no surprise that his sleep is effected.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by moonshine

Well, I am drinking some water kefir, but not too much. I just started brewing some of Gale Force's grains, and the rest of the family isn't drinking it so much. I still don't think that yeast is precisely my problem, although who knows, maybe I am kidding myself. (spit test was neg! )

I would sincerely suggest holding off on anything non SCD like the kefir if you want to be sure about whether the diet will work for you. If you don't do it 100% from the start you might not know what is causing which symptom and the second guessing will drive you bananas (BTDT).

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Annikate -- I think the only thing you can do is a trial run and see how you feel. I didn't eat grains at all in the beginning and then I tested millet and reacted so I didn't eat grains for several more months. Now I can go to a restaurant and eat without any major discomfort, just the usual bloating or over-stuffed feeling I associate with grains.

:

Also I waited until I was on full enzymes plus high proteases between meals before branching out to illegals.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Nathan1097

NOTE: The big paragraph was written Wednesday night.

I was just in the hospital from Friday evening through tonight. I went in for a belly ache with vomiting and lots of HORRIBLE, worse-than-labor pain. Threw up a few times at home then about three times in the ER. Got morphine- twice. Got admitted. They did CT scans, xrays, and other stuff. Took TONS of blood. Gave me plasma to reverse my coumadin before they did a colonoscopy. That showed nothing but they took biopsies. No diagnosis yet (except general ileitis, because my small intestine was inflamed on xray- or was that the CT scan?!) because I have to see a specialist who will look at the biopsy report and make a conclusion. They said it isn't Chrones because there isn't any diarhea usually with it. Food poisoning is possible but food allergy seems unlikely since its always something different that I ate right before. This has happened for years (at least 10)- only this time, they caught it DURING. Usually they say "You're not in pain now? We don't know. Go home." Or once the said I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics after a lot of tests but only in the ER- wasn't admitted. Other times it has been while I was pregnant and they said it was morning sickness!!!! (At 15 weeks and couldn't keep a thing down; another time they thought an ectopic pregnancy and when they found out I WAS pregnant (normal pregnancy of 5 weeks) they went off on that tangent and my ache eventually went away.) UGH!! I have a temp now which I'm keeping under control with advil and tylenol. I hope that works because I don't want to go back in! The colonoscopy showed not much. I couldn't eat while there really so I was on tea and broth and jello for most of the time then NOTHING yesterday from midnight until about 5 p.m.- I thought I'd DIE of hunger!!!! Now I'm on nutrtional supplement drinks and water and "as tolerated". I don't want to chance anything as I had very runny mashed potatoes (more like gravy and a bit of potato in it lol) earlier at the hospital and my belly started talking to me about "Grr.... why'd you do that? I have to work now..." So its just liquid nutrition for me for a bit I think. I'm freezoing with this temp so I got under my electric blanket. WRONG! That just make my temp go UP! It was 103.9! So, stripped off my clothes (had on a sweatshirt and sweatpants too) and took the blankets off my bed.... Taking tylenol and advil when I can and gonna rest. I did watch a whole TON of tv in the hospital! lol I rarely watch any tv so this was a funny experience for me. Watched a lot of "Deadliest Catch" on TLC and Price is Right and just whatever else caught my fancy.

UPDATE: Now its a couple days later (Friday) and my temp is still there but not as high. At about 100.something. I normally run in the low 97's. I also seem to be able to eat normal foods again, though I have yet to try meat. Afraid to! Meat and I don't usually agree anyway. (I copy and pasted this here because it was easier!)

Gosh what a nightmare... for 10 years you say?!

There are more user forums on the www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info site that might have people with your issues. The fever is concerning.... and you've had no dx at all? That seems very strange to me. You should ask other Crohn's patients if diarrhea is required. Perhaps "just" colitis? In any event, a trial of SCD might be helpful.

As far as the meat not agreeing with you, depending on where exactly your small intestine is damaged, you are probably not breaking it down fully. Proteases might be helpful. Also check your stomach acid production and think about supplements.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by JaneS
Also I waited until I was on full enzymes plus high proteases between meals before branching out to illegals.

Jane, do you mean that you waited until you could tolerate high proteases between meals without problems? Like Peptizyde?

I have to admit that I've been a bit lax about the enzyme thing (for myself) since the beginning and have only recently been doing Peptizyde between meals which I think is helping a lot. I tried it early on and it made me .

[moonshine]

Bought some HCl today. Haven't taken any yet, but I suspect it is a problem. I did the baking soda test some weeks ago, and didn't pass. In the last few days, I have had a similar sensation as I did after drinking the baking soda.

Made stuffed zucchini tonight (w/o the ingredients that I am not doing yet, spices and cheese). My stomach doesn't hurt like after spinach and green beans, although I do feel more bloated than after not eating veggies. I ordered No Fenol today and it can't get here soon enough.

Another milestone: DD1 had some meat for the first time in her life. She ate some of the filling from the zucchinis. (Egg, zuc and ground beef) She only had about 3 bites and then didn't want more, but good to start slow anyway. DD1, totally not interested.

My crockpot won't fit all my bones, so making stock in the reg pot. Oh, I tried to branch out from beef at the store today. Looked at a lamb chop. Would have gotten it, but it cost $11!! Can not afford such things at the moment.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Jane, do you mean that you waited until you could tolerate high proteases between meals without problems? Like Peptizyde?

I have to admit that I've been a bit lax about the enzyme thing (for myself) since the beginning and have only recently been doing Peptizyde between meals which I think is helping a lot. I tried it early on and it made me .

Yes, I saw such great results from them, that is when I decided to start illegals before I had really planned to.

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Yes, I saw such great results from them, that is when I decided to start illegals before I had really planned to.

I'm so jealous of this. I wish I knew why these enzymes make me so miserable. I'm giving dd a break from the enzymes right now too, to see if that is what is making her nuts.

[Pookietooth]

Patty, I think SAMe is supposed to be good for the liver. It's also a natural anti-depressant, and helps with arthritis. But it raises homocysteine in the blood, so you can't take it if your blood pressure is high or you already have heart disease.
And as far as the diet, I think our main problem was that we went too fast, but it may also be that I have really tough, old yeast from my childhood that is refusing to die. That, and whenever I try peptizide, ds gets really hyper. caedmyn, let me know if you find a better way!

[EBG]

Originally Posted by greencat

Does anyone knows recipes for yeast free bread? It could be a flat bread, too.

I think there is a yeast free, sourdough bread (for people who follows Maker's Diet), but I don't have its recipe either. I would appreciate, if someone can post the recipe. ( I can improvise the wheat flour with bean or nut flour.)

Thanks

Nourishing Traditions has a lactic bacterial sourdough bread. However, sourdough is made from rye and other grains, so it wouldn't be SCD legal.
On the other hand there is research that real sourdough bread doesn't bother celiacs. Probably because the gluten and complex carbs are mostly broken down by the bacteria. Even this way, you might want to use enzymes....

I made the NT sourdough once, it came out hard like a rock... I'm not sure why. I'm not going to make it again, it take a week and a half! Nobody else likes it anyway. You can also order properly made sourdough on the net. Grain and Salt society.

[EBG]

Also, nut and bean flours are not properly made because they were not soaked. Unlss you make your own by soaking and drying and grinding. There are some nut bread recipes on scdrecipe.com but I doubt you can make sourdough with nuts...