Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!! - Page 31

[Gale Force]

New Mama -- Just get an amino acid chelate form of zinc. Your health food store probably has one. Most likely they have zinc oxide and an amino chelate form. Get the amino one.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I think one of the problems that it is intestinal flora imbalance with both of you. Is the book helping you understand the digestive process a bit better? There could be other things than bad bacteria or yeast such as celiac.

I had a lot of gas/bloating/anxiety and alternating loose stool and constipation. DS has had everything under the sun, right now very sensitive to a ton of foods, gets gas sometimes and sleep problems.

Tanalbit is interesting I've never heard of it. Plant tannins are supposedly one of the things DS's bad bugs are sensitive to as well, also berberine and uva ursi. The thing with that is that these are tested in vitro. And the mucus lining of the gut can protect the flora ... I think in biofilms... read about Elaine talking about them somewhere. So that is why sometimes antifungals/antibacterials don't work as well as expected in vivo.

Hi Jane,

The book is helping me understand digestion but not necessarily which enzymes to take. DD has trouble digesting a wide range of foods so I'm guess a broad spectrum for her.

I haven't been very consistent about taking the plant tannins. It was an alternative practitioner that recommended them to counter the specific kind of bacteria that is overabundant in my gut.

Another question. I was reading the section on the website about stools. She makes it sound like if you have "floaters" thats indicative of too much gas. So should all poops sink?

Lovely conversations. LOL.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Another question. I was reading the section on the website about stools. She makes it sound like if you have "floaters" thats indicative of too much gas. So should all poops sink?

Lovely conversations. LOL.

Well I first wanted to call this the Poop Tribe or something like that.

Yes, all stool should sink. It should be brown to dark brown, quite firm (thus the sinking), very smooth in texture and you should go 1-3x/day. It should smell but not stink badly.

Actually most people don't know that bacteria make up about half of your poop ... so your intestinal flora regulating your bowels make perfect sense.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by dnw826

I don't know what to do. I was reading a lot on the leaky gut and remembered one of the docs we went to said that at one stage of her rash that it looked "yeasty", but she certainly has never had a yeast infection, and I recall something about yeast having a role in leaky gut somewhere, but now I can't find the info.

And I must admit, the restictions I have seen for treating leaky gut diet wise are very intimidating. No wheat? You might as well strike me dead on the spot. I gave up dairy, but bread? I would die. It makes me think about how horrible the Adkins diet is (no offense if you like it, but I have read too much about how horrible it is and I have seen many people suffering health wise from it personally).

So what do you eat/do to treat leaky gut?

Start with the Healing the Gut Tribe sticky at the top of the this forum. It will take time to learn and it is overwhelming.

It's possible that you don't have to give up bread, but the key thing here is to understand what your body can and cannot digest right now and work towards healing. The Specific Carbohydrate Diet is predicated on eating only which you can digest fully, and if the food still cannot be fully digested, it is of the type that will not ferment and continue to harm the gut. Again, we are all very individual but if you do have intestinal flora imbalance the likliehood of you not being able to digest that bread is high. Digestive enzymes and probiotics are the first step you can try, other nutritional suggestions are in sticky.

Perhaps a true sourdough or soaked grains according to Nourishing Traditions principles as New Mama is finding out, will be enough for you. Good luck and be prepared for quite a journey!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by Annikate

I've been glued to this thread since yesterday. Here's a quote from MT re: selenium & candida. (Plus other things.) Thought I'd share.

My dream would be that any person who logged onto MDC would get a number of key posts popping up for required reading before continuing on. And that would be one of them.

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Yes, all stool should sink. It should be brown to dark brown, quite firm (thus the sinking), very smooth in texture and you should go 1-3x/day. It should smell but not stink badly.

I consider it a major step forward that my stool now does sink (since starting SCD). I have not worked up to more than once a day. Actually right now, I am just hoping for once a day. And for the yucky taste in my mouth to go away from eating so much protein.

On that note, I took pureed pumpkin out of the freezer to make something with. Any yummy ideas?

And my latest yogurt batch curdled. This is why I don't make more at once time, even though it would be more convenient. I was rushing yesterday to get it started so that I wouldn't be out of it too long, and I guess the oven was too hot.

Must get ready to go to DDs school picnic. I am hoping there is some meat there I can eat. (Gosh, this is such a strange statement for me to make, but I really do mean it!)

[Kissy]

store-bought yogurt question...

I've just been lurking in here; got a link from somewhere in N&GE. Y'all have a lot of good info I'm thinking of incorporating into my and husband's diets.

Regarding:

Originally Posted by EBG

Store-bought yogurt is not lactose-free because they don't ferment it long enough (24 hours or more).

Would it be possible to purchase a good quality, organic, whole milk yogurt, then leave it out on the counter to culture some more? Through experience, I've left bowls of yogurt out and eaten them hours later and they're more tart than when first served. I've also made yogurt for 2 children who like it different ways - the younger likes it after a 9 to 12 hour culture, the elder prefers a 20-24 hour culture. At times I've forgotten to leave half of it out longer for D., and took it back out of the fridge and left it on the counter overnight again; it always gets that nice tart flavor he really enjoys.

My presumption has always been that the bacteria/enzymes just ate up more of the lactose when it warmed up again. Perhaps if you left store-bought yogurt at room temp for 24 hours it would get it to (or at least closer to) where you want it?

I've never used a "yogurt maker" or "yogurt machine". I make my yogurt using glass mason jars or quart yogurt containers from previous store-bought yogurt (or sometimes I just leave it in the stainless steel pan to culture) and an insulated cooler. Well, and a $3 candy/frying thermometer, but before I bought that I just used a regular digital thermometer, since mine would register up to 110 degrees - I heated the milk 'til small bubbles ringed the pan, then cooled, checking with a regular thermometer. I've also heard that you can tell when it's ready by the ring of tiny bubbles - that's 180F, then when you can leave your finger in the pot of milk for ten seconds (but no more), it's about 110F and ready for the culture. I've done it that way a number of times when making yogurt for the boys and I've forgotten to bring my thermometer to their house and it's turned out fine, though not as consistantly thick and creamy as when I use a thermometer. Sometimes it's more runny, sometimes a bit grainy, but it always cultures - I assume (through my reading) that the texture differences are mostly due to starting with raw milk and not getting it hot enough to kill off all the natural enzymes. Whatever it is, it still tastes good. *grin*

Anyway, my husband received a soft-sided cooler designed to hold 12 20oz (I think they're 20 oz) Monster brand energy drinks, and it's the perfect size for either 2 quart-sized plastic yogurt tubs *when standing up* or my 2qt pot *when on it's side*.

While the milk is heating then cooling, I stick a milk/water jug filled with hot water from the tap (as hot as it can get) in the cooler. When the milk's ready to culture I take out the hot water bottle, wrap the pot/tubs in a piece of fleece, stick it in the cooler, then stuff up any open spaces with plastic grocery bags. Zip up, leave overnight, and I have nice, thick yogurt in the morning. I personally use Sky Top Farms yogurt as my culture and it's so creamy I'll eat the yogurt warm (but that's not what y'all are looking for!).

Recently, I've also had good luck using an insulated lunch bag to make up one plastic tub of yogurt, using the same method described above, minus the fleece. Actually, I almost never remember to put the hot water bottle in first anymore and it still turns out great.

Maybe you could get store-bought to culture more (for people who are unable to start from scratch for whatever reason) if you stick it in a pan of warm water that you keep at 106-110F until the yogurt is in that range as well, then try an insulated method of keeping it warm for an additional 12-24 hours?

Hmm. Maybe I'll give that a try right now with a cup of the yogurt that finished this morning.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but can anyone think of a reason why either way wouldn't work? I wish there was a way to test the activity content of homemade yogurt!

~Kissy, a beginning culture queen - yogurt, kombucha & sourdough pancakes under her belt. Next stop - water kefir, pickles and ginger carrots - yipee!

[Pattyla]

Kissy- Do you realize that you can make yogurt with raw milk by just heating it to 100 or so and then adding your culture and keeping it that temp for as long as you want? That will preserve the enzymes in the raw milk.

[Pattyla]

Does heartburn mean I have enough stomach acid? I have been wondering if low stomach acid is why I can't tolerate the enzymes. I've had heartburn badly yesterday and today.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

Does heartburn mean I have enough stomach acid? I have been wondering if low stomach acid is why I can't tolerate the enzymes. I've had heartburn badly yesterday and today.

Apparently it can mean you have too much or too little...I guess the symptoms are the same. Did you try the baking soda test?

[caedmyn]

JaneS (or anyone who knows)...can you address this:

This drift toward a high-protein diet further drives the effect of a decrease in tryptophan and net result of increased hyperness. Diets high in animal meats tend to create more toxins in the gut and some of those toxins are phenols. So the total phenolic load is increased. You are also removed a major source of magnesium which promotes calming. Thus, this correlates with the effect some people see of going on a GFCF diet and after awhile the person "becomes" reactive to phenols and "regresses". So you start removing phenols, probably more meats are introduced, and the cycle continues. By adding in enzymes and returning to a more balanced diet that includes whole-grains and possibly milk, you are correcting a magneisum deficiency, reducing the total phenolic load and favoring more serotonin production...all of these promote calming.

It's a quote Annikate posted on the Nutrition & Immunology thread in Vaxes (quote is from www.enzymestuff.com).

It seems logical to me that the toxins that are referred to come from feedlot animals, not pastured/natural/organic animals, but I'd like to get some more information on this as the diet I'm doing now is very high in protein and very low in carbs.

[jrose_lee]

Hi! I was sent over here the "from mama's with bad skin" thread. I'm wondering if I need to do some healing. I am going to keep reading the thread, (haven't made it too far yet) but I bought some things to try to help today and I wanted to run it by everyone to see if I'm on the right track. I'm wondering if MY leaky gut has something to do with ds (five months) and the fact that he is sensitive to SOOOO many foods. I've already cut a zillion things out of my diet. I'm looking to help us both out a little.
Here's what I started taking today (if you know of something that is not compatible with nursing, will you tell me?)

Probiotic
Evening Primrose oil
Cod Liver Oil
Fish Oil
Vit B Complex
Vit E
Coconut Oil
Kombucha Tea (this says not to drink if nursing...is this true?

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....

[Kissy]

Originally Posted by lovinglife

...so I'd have to figure out a way to add [breastmilk] back that wouldn't be totally weird. I was thinking of putting it in a smoothie. Do you think that would work?

I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.

Originally Posted by Pattyla

Kissy- Do you realize that you can make yogurt with raw milk by just heating it to 100 or so and then adding your culture and keeping it that temp for as long as you want? That will preserve the enzymes in the raw milk.

Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.

~Kissy

[Gale Force]

caedmyn -- I didn't find that quote at that link but just from what you posted, it seems odd. What is the high protein diet? I replaced my grains with vegetables, a better source of magnesium than grains. And animal products tend to be higher in tryptophan. Do they give more detail?

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by Kissy

I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.



Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.

~Kissy

You need to culture it longer and don't let it get too hot. I heat mine to just 100 and don't let it get hotter than that and I cluture it for 30 hours or longer. It thickens up more the longer you let it go I have found. Mine does have some whey but it isn't any more than the kind I have made where I heated the milk to 180. It definatly isn't a drink.

[quelindo]

Originally Posted by jrose_lee

Hi! I was sent over here the "from mama's with bad skin" thread. I'm wondering if I need to do some healing. I am going to keep reading the thread, (haven't made it too far yet) but I bought some things to try to help today and I wanted to run it by everyone to see if I'm on the right track. I'm wondering if MY leaky gut has something to do with ds (five months) and the fact that he is sensitive to SOOOO many foods. I've already cut a zillion things out of my diet. I'm looking to help us both out a little.
Here's what I started taking today (if you know of something that is not compatible with nursing, will you tell me?)

Probiotic
Evening Primrose oil
Cod Liver Oil
Fish Oil
Vit B Complex
Vit E
Coconut Oil
Kombucha Tea (this says not to drink if nursing...is this true?

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....

I'm a newbie at this too, but I just wanted to say and welcome. I also came here via the bad skin thread. I've incorporated a few changes in my diet and you're right, it is overwhelming at first. Just keep reading and ask questions as need be -- these ladies are super helpful.

I started adding dairy back into my diet (I was vegan for several years) and located a great source for raw milk. So far I've been making 24-hour yogurt with it, but I hope to work my way up to drinking it straight. Sometimes people who have trouble with regular dairy do fine with raw dairy, so I wouldn't rule it out entirely if you have a raw milk source. My son was sensitive to dairy and soy (and who knows what else -- that babe was a major spitter-upper) but seems fine with raw milk dairy now. He shares a smoothie made with the yogurt with me every morning.

I've also started taking 2 Tbsp. of high vitamin cod liver oil, taking a zinc supplement, MSM and L-glutamine. I also now soak my muesli the night before and add coconut oil to it. I forgot to soak it last night, and this morning I had it anyway -- and I feel all bloaty and didn't even enjoy it that much to begin with. I also have only sourdough or sprouted grain bread -- I'm such a bread-lover that I think this could be the source of some of my issues (it seems like if you crave something, you may have a problem with it).

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Not pooping for a long time could be bacterial in nature. Yeast tends to cause loose more frequent stools.

Enzymes took some time for me to work up to, and I still have to be careful and not go overboard with grains. It depends on how damaged your gut is to begin with and whether you can right the balance of good intestinal flora.

The point of "E for A" in my mind is the enormous success high proteases have in aiding inflammation and digestion, as her rec is Zyme Prime plus Peptizyde. This has been my personal experience as well. However, high proteases can be hard to get used to.

I wanted to post this link before re: hyperactivity and proteases to discuss here. We've talked about it a bit on the Nut/Imm 101 thread.

Right, encopresis. I just got to that part of the book where she talks about that possibility. Is it possible that at 10 months old - this has been happening since around 6 months - he could have this? He is still primarily BF for nutrition, too.

And what is the best thing to do for it? I hate relying on senna like we are. I've tried pear juice and it seems not to make much difference.

Thanks for reminding me about the tryptophan, too. She did discuss that in the book but it help to be reminded - there is so much information to take in! Looks like more bananas for us

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by AmyD

: to Galeforce

Patty, what do you recommend? I was thinking of doing Jane's cashew cake, but it calls for like 10 eggs :

Jane's cashew cake is dee-licious! I recommend it.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by Kissy

I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.



Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.

~Kissy

I think you could also add gelatin to thicken it up - that's what a lot of commercial yogurts do. Or drain the whey and make the yummy cream cheese.

[chasmyn]

Originally Posted by jrose_lee

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....

Kefir - you can make water kefir or juice kefir, too. You just need to find the right grains for it.

Fermented food: kimchi, saurkraut, wine, miso, sourdough, pickled foods. An excellent book to read is "Wild Fermentation".

Also the Nourishing Traditions thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=461751

HTH!