Testing to find out if dc is "gifted"???

[ChristieB]

I've always figured that since we'll be homeschooling that it doesn't matter. But some relatives (both have teachers in public/private schools -- they have a different perspective) insist that is very important to have ds tested, so I can teach him the way he needs to be taught. I figure I know him better than any test can, and I'll just watch him and follow his lead.

He just turned five, and he's already taught himself to read and some math (although reading is his focus). And he is bright. But I don't really think he's gifted. Other parents have described their gifted children, and ds isn't there. I'm sure it varies, too. But really, I just don't care! He is who he is, and I love him for who he is.

My question, though, is this: although I don't see a reason to test, am I missing something?? Is there a reason for a hs family to test to see if a child is "gifted"?

And BTW, I plan on using the Oak Meadow 1st grade curriculum in the fall. He's well ahead of the reading and probably math portions, but he's doing well on those on his own (I do help him when he wants, of course. He just rarely needs/wants help). And the other parts of curriculum look like they'd be good for him. He knows a lot about a lot of things, but that doesn't we can't explore them in different ways. And I want to focus in "school" on things that he doesn't spend as much time on himself. I'll buy the curriculum, look it over, and if it just isn't challenging enough, Ill return it. But I think it will be fine. I like that he will learn to play the recorder and how to knit, and that there is so much exploring of his world involved in this curriculum. I just don't figure a 5 yr. old who is already learning on his own (actually ANY 5 yr. old) needs to be pushed academically.

Anyway, just thought I'd include our plans so that you could (maybe) better answer my question.

TIA,
Christie

[UnschoolnMa]

I don't really get the whole "gifted" thing personally, but that's not what you are asking. lol

I agree with you that since he will be homeschooling his education will already be tailored to what he is needing. If something doesn't work you and he can just ditch it and do something else.

[boongirl]

I was in a gifted program throughout elementary school and taught gifted kids for ten years. First of all, there is no consensus on what it means to be gifted or talented or academically advanced. Secondly, the tests are notoriously unpredictable with kids younger than 3rd grade. I think this is because younger kids don't have as much experience sitting still and taking a boring test. You could pay money to go to an educational psychologist, who will run a battery of tests to see if your ds is gifted, but what would you do differently with that information? Personally, I would say that if you are homeschooling him, you are offering him way more than a gifted program could. School districts usually don't spend a lot of money on gifted education anyway.

hoagie does a much better job at explaining all of this

[Karenwith4]

We had our son tested while he was in school hoping to get some assistance and help for him within and through the system. It didn't work and now we are homeschooling
I personally wouldn't bother testing a h/sed kid - there's not much in the test that you wouldn't be able to pick up yourself with just careful observation, unless maybe your child is twice exceptional - ie gifted with an identifiable learning disability (please don't jump on my terminology).

I don't know about Oak Meadow but to be honest almost any 'complete' curriculum rarely fits gifted kids as they tend to be all over the map with their abilities. You may need to be prepared to only 'use' a portion of it while your child leads you off on all kinds of adventures and sidetracks.

Good luck.
Karen

[Dar]

Yup. No reason to stick any label on him - either the "gifted" label or the "not gifted" label, unless you need that infomration for a specific reason.

I did consider getting my kid labeled gifted, because the only way she can take community college classes in our county without being 16 is by having a gifted IEP. I know a couple of special ed-gifted teachers, who would have helped us out, but testing was also required, and expensive... and we're moving now anyway. If we had been staying, though, I might have followed up... but in your case, it seems pointless.

dar

[Butter]

I have a truly academically gifted child. She's kind of scary sometimes actually and insanely ahead of her age (she should be in kindergarten but is doing 3rd to 5th grade depending on subject and flying through all that anyway - oddly enough I actually tend to slow her down because I keep thinking she is doing too much). Then there's the "other" non-academic type stuff that describe gifted kids and fit her to a T. That said, I am a big proponent of NOT testing kids unless there is a true reason (for example if you want to enroll a child in certain programs like the one offered by Johns Hopkins you need "proof" of giftedness). We will consider testing her in the future, but ONLY for those programs (and given their costs, that's not an extremely likely thing) Some things to think about are:
Would anything change if you knew your child was or was not truly gifted?
Would you change how you educate him?
Would you change how you think of him?
Does it really matter?
Now, by your post, I think I can figure the answers to these questions. There really isn't a reason to test him.

[MamaMonica]

I think it might help if your child also has a learning disability of some kind and the information might be helpful in targetting resources. Otherwise if you are homeschooling it doesn't seem like it would make any difference. If you do decide to do public school, your dc can take a test then to get into a gifted program.

[maxmama]

It does matter if they're schooled out side of the home, because gifted kids often are not uniformly advanced (social or emotional skills are often age-appropriate or lagging) and a "diagnosis" can help him get appropriate challenges and expectations holistically.

[moominmamma]

Chiming in as another mom to kids who would no doubt meet "gifted" criteria who sees absolutely no point in formal testing and identification in a flexible, child-centred homeschooling setting.

Miranda

[slacker_mom]

DH and I were both tested in elementary school in order to participate in specific programs. I have considered having DD tested just to have outside documentation to refer to when I explain to some relatives why I will be homeschooling DD. I don't think it is necessary to have a test done if you are already going to be working one on one with your child. Being labeled gifted when I was in school just meant I could participate in certain enrichment activities away from the rest of my regular classmates. And it meant I could be told I wasn't "living up to my potential" whenever I wasn't meeting other people's expectations.

[USAmma]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

Chiming in as another mom to kids who would no doubt meet "gifted" criteria who sees absolutely no point in formal testing and identification in a flexible, child-centred homeschooling setting.

Miranda

What she said.

My dd was dx as gifted by a professional that we went to when she was having some behavior issues. She is due to start K this fall (born 12/00). Did everything very early including reading. She is about to jump into 2nd grade handwriting and spelling and is already reading at 2nd grade level and beyond. Math is 1st grade level. Beyond the things that can be measured, she just thinks deeply about things.

I intend to homeschool her as long as it meets her needs and mine. If you intend to homeschool then just let your child set the pace.

[ChristieB]

Thank you everyone! I was pretty sure these would be the kind of responses I'd get. And, as you could tell, that's the way I've been thinking, too. But I thought I'd check, just in case I was missing something. And now I can say to these two teachers in our family that I've checked with other hs (including some with "gifted" children) families, and they don't see a reason either.

Butter, the answers to the questions you asked are the reason I've seen no reason to have him tested!

And I absolutely agree about labels! He already has diabetes which makes him feel he's different from other children (fortunately, though, the kids here don't treat him differently/badly, so he's feeling less different the more he gets used to it). He doesn't need any other labels. Especially one that serves no purpose but to give these relatives bragging rights. :

We'll just follow his lead and see where we go!

Christie

[almama]

Well, we had our son qualitatively tested (no way do we need #s), mainly to rule out other things (he can get REALLY intense). Going the gifted testing route seemed the most benign way to approach it. It was helpful and was good to know that a lot of what we have done both behaviorially and academically is appropriate for him. Most important for us though was to know that he acts like lots of other gifted kids the interviewer knows and stop worrying about other things causing the intensity.

As far as academics, she suggested not pushing or requiring lots of busy work, but providing lots of the intellectual stimulation that he desires. I think that advice is great for all kids, but especially true of kids who "get" things really fast and early. It has given me peace (and ammunition) this year the times when he refused to do any "work."

So, no as far as testing for academic reasons, it seems fairly useless, especially at this age. If you have other concerns, it can be helpful. I know several people who have found out through good testing programs other things that are going on with their kids (aha moments). I wouldn't go that route unless you have concerns though.

As your DC gets older though, if he seems *really* smart then you may want to consider testing in order to link up with resources such as the Davidson Group. From what I understand, they are a great help to the kids and families. We're not at that level though, so I don't know much about it.

Try http://www.giftedhomeschooler.org for information.

[tuffykenwell]

I highly recommend the book "Creative Home Schooling: A Resource Guide for Smart Families" by Lisa Rivero. Not only did it help me process some of my DS' less desirable traits and come to peace with them but it helped me to understand the whole asynchronous development thing so that I didn't expect too much of him in areas where he was "on par" or even lagging behind. It helped me also to see that letting him develop at his own rate and explore his own interests was a great thing and that my role would be more that of a facilitator than that of a "teacher" (DS *really* dislikes being "taught" anything).

Its a great book whether your child would be officially "gifted" or not actually.

As to the testing I did it when I was a kid and it didn't seem to help me any (was still bored stiff all through school including college and university).

Steph

[pookel]

IMHO, there is no such thing as "gifted" or "not gifted." There is a broad spectrum of learning abilities for different people and in different subjects. A kid who consistently learns fast may appropriately be tested for placement into an advanced class at *school* where the classes are distinct and they have to put him in one or the other, but what would be the point at home? Teach him as fast as he's learning, that's all you need to worry about.

I don't think there's anything wrong with tests. They can be a useful tool for finding out a person's skills (including whether they test well!). I just don't see a need to stick a label on him.

[ShannonCC]

Originally Posted by tuffykenwell

I highly recommend the book "Creative Home Schooling: A Resource Guide for Smart Families" by Lisa Rivero.

I was about to suggest this book too Also do some reading at hoagiesgifted.org ( someone else already said that too ). There are a lot of emotional and social issues that often (*often* not always) go with giftedness and it might help you to read about them and know what's going on if you are dealing with them with your kids (or yourself, or other members of your family).

I wouldn't test either. If my dd was in school that would be a different matter. In school you need the right label before the powers-that-be will give your child what they need. At home, it doesn't matter if my kids would be considered gifted, ADD, ADHD, dyslexic, LD or whatever label, there are no "authorities" to appease. It's all up to us and we (meaning my dd and I!) can do what we want.

[quaz]

While I don't necessarily believe you should have dc tested... what I do think is important is to realize if dc is gifted.

Yes, all kids are born with 'gifts', BUT there are those that are academically gifted, which generally means an IQ above a certain point. People can also be gifted in areas like art/physically gifted, etc...


I think there are many reasons that it is important to realize if your dc is gifted (and as I said, you don't necessarily need to have testing done to get a strong feel if dc is or isn't).

Giftedness DOES fall under special education in most school districts. Just as kids that are learning disabled often need special instruction, many time gifted kids do as well.

More importantly, though, there are some of the idiosyncracies that are seen more in gifted kids. (they don't necessarily exhibit all these traits)

Items such as being extremely emotional, a high sense of justice, being perfectionist to the point of not be willing to try something unless they know they can do it, extremely imaginative, very sensitive to stimuli, etc....

These items are important to see/understand. My dd is only 3 3/4, but I've seen enough to indicate she is probably on the gifted spectrum somewhere. The part, though, that is HIGHLY important for me to be aware of are some of the above items. She can be extremely emotional, imaginative, but refuses to do things if it isn't in her interest or she things she can't do it. B/c I'm aware of these items b/c of both being a parent and observing them, but also b/c of researching giftedness and some of the traits they may exhibit... I am better able to instruct my child.

A few good resources...

hoagies gifted web page... google hoagie gifted
Also look into Dabrowski overexcitabilities... these overexcitabilities are seen more in those that are gifted. Being aware of that also has been very helpful to me, and does at least help explain aspects of my dd's personality and b/c I'm more aware, it helps me work with her better.

Anyway, gifted testing I think is important when
a) it opens doors
b) there are issues enough b/c of the 'giftedness', that it becomes imperative that testing is done... this is generally only seen in kids that are at the very high end of the scale, or in cases where schools don't believe the child is gifted and simply thinks a child is acting out/adhd or something else (not applicable in your case, since you are homeschooling :-) )


Whether testing is done or not, I do think it is critical for a parent, especially a homeschooling parent, to understand whether dc is or not and to understand some of the attributes other than 'smart' a gifted child may or may not exhibit.

Tammy

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by quaz

While I don't necessarily believe you should have dc tested... what I do think is important is to realize if dc is gifted.

.....there are some of the idiosyncracies that are seen more in gifted kids. (they don't necessarily exhibit all these traits)

..... Items such as being extremely emotional, a high sense of justice, being perfectionist to the point of not be willing to try something unless they know they can do it, extremely imaginative, very sensitive to stimuli, etc....

Since these idiosycracies also occur in non-gifted kids, and since many gifted kids don't exhibit all or even some of them, I don't see why knowing whether your child is gifted or not is important.

I have three school-aged kids -- one with clear evidence of intellectual giftedness and all the idiosyncratic stuff, one without the academic high achievement but with all the idiosyncratic stuff, and one who is brilliant but wonderfully easy-going, no idiosyncracies at all. I don't see how knowing whether they're all gifted, or only two of them, or only one, or none, is going to change anything about how I deal with them. Every child is an individual.

Miranda

[blessed]

Originally Posted by USAmma

She is due to start K this fall (born 12/00)

I've seen several poster refer to six year olds as starting age for kindergarten. This isn't right, is it?

I was 4.5 when I started K (also born in December), which admittedly was the early option. Most of the December kids stayed back and started K at 5 and 1st grade at 6. The hard and fast rule was that the child had to be 5 by the first day of first grade. So for example, at your daughter's age, I was in second grade.

And then, thinking back on high school everyone was either 17 or 18 at graduation, with the only 19 year olds being kids who were behind schedule for whatever reason. And isn't the typical college grad 22, and not 23?

Are you all sure about the starting ages? Maybe it's changed since I was a kid (waaay back when)?

[blessed]

Oops, I see I did the math wrong on your dd's age, USAmma . She'll actually be five starting K, right?

Now, that's the typical age for K still, isnt' it? Five and not six?