Testing to find out if dc is "gifted"??? - Page 2

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by quaz

While I don't necessarily believe you should have dc tested... what I do think is important is to realize if dc is gifted.

Items such as being extremely emotional, a high sense of justice, being perfectionist to the point of not be willing to try something unless they know they can do it, extremely imaginative, very sensitive to stimuli, etc....

These items are important to see/understand. My dd is only 3 3/4, but I've seen enough to indicate she is probably on the gifted spectrum somewhere. The part, though, that is HIGHLY important for me to be aware of are some of the above items. She can be extremely emotional, imaginative, but refuses to do things if it isn't in her interest or she things she can't do it. B/c I'm aware of these items b/c of both being a parent and observing them, but also b/c of researching giftedness and some of the traits they may exhibit... I am better able to instruct my child.

Whether testing is done or not, I do think it is critical for a parent, especially a homeschooling parent, to understand whether dc is or not and to understand some of the attributes other than 'smart' a gifted child may or may not exhibit.

Tammy

What Tammy said.

One very recent example -- today my 3 1/2 year old had a 30 minute major meltdown because she was trying to line up some trains in a particular order and I made her give two trains to another child (we were at a kid-friendly restaurant...there were about 15 trains, and she had them all).

She screamed and cried and kicked and screetched, etc. We ended up having to leave. She was NOT trying to manipulate me or be "bad." She was genuinely upset that her sense of order was disturbed. She had the trains in a very specific order and could not emotionally deal with my taking two away so that another kid could play.

Understanding why she might exhibit this kind of behavior helps me tremendously. I can respond to her with kindness.

This same kid is usually very polite and sweet. She reads already, LOVES jigsaw puzzles of all kinds, can add and subtract, etc. -- and she has the emotional stuff that can go along with her academic advancement (highly sensitive, very logical and orderly, etc.)

So in that sense, I do think it's important to understand your child as well as you can, on all levels. However, like Tammy said, that doesn't really mean you have to officially "test."

[Butter]

Originally Posted by blessed

I've seen several poster refer to six year olds as starting age for kindergarten. This isn't right, is it?

It depends on birthday and state. Here in VA the cut-off is age 5 by 9/1 or 9/30 (not sure which, but I know it is either the beginning or end of September). Mr. Man was born 10/3/01 and would not be able to start kindergarten until fall 2007. He would turn 6 just one month after school started. When I started school (in MD) the cut-off was 5 by 12/31 (they've since moved it to September as well) so back then a child born the same day as Mr. Man would be able to begin school at age 4 and turn 5 a month later. Here in VA they have tossed around moving the cut-off date to June or July even.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by RedWine

Understanding why she might exhibit this kind of behavior helps me tremendously. I can respond to her with kindness.

Sure, but understanding that she is gifted doesn't explain why she is exhibiting this behaviour. Understanding that she has a very strong sense of order is what explains the behaviour. I know a kid with a fairly low IQ, a violin student of mine with lots of learning struggles, who has some obsessive-compulsive-like traits, and he has a strong need for order. I also have a very precocious, likely 'gifted' 7yo who has none of this.

Miranda

[Dar]

What Miranda said. There's this whole mythos that has been built up around the "gifted" label, and I've seen far too many parents who simply label certain behaviors as "gifted traits" and then refuse to tinker with them... which isn't helpful for the child or for those around him. Parents of unlabeled kids, on the other hand, are more likely to help the child learn to deal with issues and overcome them...

I also had a lot more stereotypic "gifted" behaviors than my daughter ever did, and I kept them to a far older age than she did, although I believe that she's as bright as I am... she's just never been labeled. I, on the other hand, was in special "gifted" programs all through school, until I dropped out at 15. I think both schooling and the label reinforced that identity, and thus reinforced the behaviors (if you're labeled "gifted", you'd better act "gifted"). Another point for unschooling.

dar

[ShannonCC]

Mmmm. I'm on both sides of this I guess. On the one hand, like I said, I see no point in having a homeschooled kid tested. On the other hand if I hadn't looked into giftedness, I wouldn't have learned so much about a lot of the issues in my family. Things that we chalked up to bad parenting or laziness or "you're just weird" or whatever. Does it matter if my dd is actually gifted or not? To me, no, but using the term gifted as a jumping off point, I've been able to learn a lot about her, myself, my mom, etc and maybe her childhood will be that much easier because of it. So I have no problem with people using the term (and yes, I do believe it's real) but I also have no need to stick it on my kids because as a homeschooler, I have the freedom to raise them the way that's best for *them* without having to answer to anyone else.

But then, if someone is in a school system where being labeled gifted will get them a better education then I'm all for it. I was told I was gifted in school though and it not only didn't help me, it hurt (as far as I can tell the only result was to periodically be told "you're gifted, why aren't you doing better?" Ah, I can laugh *now* ).

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

Sure, but understanding that she is gifted doesn't explain why she is exhibiting this behaviour. Understanding that she has a very strong sense of order is what explains the behaviour. I know a kid with a fairly low IQ, a violin student of mine with lots of learning struggles, who has some obsessive-compulsive-like traits, and he has a strong need for order. I also have a very precocious, likely 'gifted' 7yo who has none of this.

Miranda

Okay, point taken.

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by Dar

I've seen far too many parents who simply label certain behaviors as "gifted traits" and then refuse to tinker with them... which isn't helpful for the child or for those around him. Parents of unlabeled kids, on the other hand, are more likely to help the child learn to deal with issues and overcome them...

Also good point.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by Dar

What Miranda said. There's this whole mythos that has been built up around the "gifted" label, and I've seen far too many parents who simply label certain behaviors as "gifted traits" and then refuse to tinker with them... which isn't helpful for the child or for those around him. Parents of unlabeled kids, on the other hand, are more likely to help the child learn to deal with issues and overcome them...

I think the gifted stuff on the web helps me as a parent, whether it's entirely accurate or not. I have a pretty smart, perfectionist 5 year old who lives in her head a lot of the time, and will get very upset when reality doesn't live up to her imagination. Sometimes the way she gets upset is embarrassing for me (we're new in the area, and I want all of us to make friends, and so I'm a little more sensitive than usual to what other people think.) The gifted websites helped me realize that these tendencies are part of her personality, and I am therefore better able to deal with it patiently. We are dealing with it, mostly to save her from being miserable everytime reality lets her down.

I won't have her tested unless there's someone else who needs the data. I don't trust myself not to pressure her if I have "proof" she's "gifted".

ZM

[almama]

Knowing about the "gifted" (yes, the label sucks) overexcitability factor and figuring out that my son was able to understand concepts years ahead of his age, but not emotionally ready to deal with it were great pieces of information. It told us it was not something else (food allergies - we've tried elimination diets -ugh-, learning needs, physical ailments) that was making him go haywire at Christmas, birthdays, etc. It also gave us clues as to how to handle it, and they have been working. Finally, after 5 years of pouring through books and finding little relavance to our situation, we were directed to the gifted books and said, "ahh -so that is what is going on." So again, the testing and the label is only useful at this age if you want somewhere to go with it.

We tinker with him endlessly Poor mite.

[ChristieB]

Oh, good! Yet another thing to learn about. Although I'll admit that it's not going to be a high priority right now. In the last year I've learned about Type 1 diabetes (including insulin use and carb counting), gluten intolerance, healing the gut, and enzymes, plus some family issues that my sister and mother are facing. Plus, I'm working on figuring out curriculum for next year (which, I'll admit, is somewhat related to all of this). Plus, all the stress of the past year has caused me have an MS exacerbation for the last few months. Ughh!

Besides, if he does fit the description of "gifted", I don't think he's at the high end of the spectrum. He does have several of the traits listed ("extremely emotional, a high sense of justice, being perfectionist to the point of not be willing to try something unless they know they can do it, extremely imaginative, very sensitive to stimuli" definitely describes him), but not usually to an extreme. And things have improved significantly since he went gluten-free (the anger and violence have largely subsided, and mainly only show up when there's a lot of excitement or stress, like his G-ma visiting for his birthday).

Honestly, I'm barely doing better than treading water right now, and although my son and his well-being are a huge priority for me, reading about "gifted" kids and their issues is not. But thanks so much for all the feedback. It's very helpful. And I'm sure the book and websites will be interesting and helpful when I have the mental energy for them.

Christie

[quaz]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

Since these idiosycracies also occur in non-gifted kids, and since many gifted kids don't exhibit all or even some of them, I don't see why knowing whether your child is gifted or not is important.

I have three school-aged kids -- one with clear evidence of intellectual giftedness and all the idiosyncratic stuff, one without the academic high achievement but with all the idiosyncratic stuff, and one who is brilliant but wonderfully easy-going, no idiosyncracies at all. I don't see how knowing whether they're all gifted, or only two of them, or only one, or none, is going to change anything about how I deal with them. Every child is an individual.

Miranda

and

Originally Posted by moominmamma

Sure, but understanding that she is gifted doesn't explain why she is exhibiting this behaviour

Yes, it does explain why she is exhibiting the behavior.
All kids of course will display their own idiosyncracies, but there ARE some common items that are seen more in gifted kids... which may or may not occur.

Knowledge is power. Knowing that there are items that I may potentially encounter helps me immensely, by making me aware of it, and not being taken off guard. Just as knowing that, hey... there is a history of depression in my family and a history of manic depression, insure that I have the knowledge in advance to see the signs of it and address it early if it happens.... just as knowing that hey, I had pronunciation problems as a child made me question my oldest's pronunciation when she was 2, and had her eval'd when she was 2 1/2... sure enough she has been in speech for the past year for severe phonological delay... if I hadn't been aware of my past history, I can guarantee I would have been simply brushed off by a doctor saying oh... kids exhibit issues until they are 3. (plus, I probably wouldn't have thought anything of her speech other than following the typical, fine until they are 3 mantra that ya find when you google info on pronunciation). Knowledge of any kind is important, and in this case, the knowledge is simply information that there are some attributes that occur more in gifted kids.

When my dd started bawling in the middle of books when she was 2.... it helped to know that yes, gifted kids do tend to be more highly emotional, b/c I was better prepared to deal with it and handle it. Knowing in advance that gifted kids may start asking complex questions about death and God at 3 or before.... insure I was prepared for that when it did happen... yes all parents encounter that, but I wasn't caught off guard when it happened early.


With my oldest, I've questioned several times if she has SIDS.... but when I've looked at it, it didn't fit. Finding out the information on Dabrowski's overexcitabilities and finding tips on how to deal with some of them, really did help.... while the SIDS info never quite fits.... Dabrowski's overexcitabilities fit to a tee.... the freaking at a drop of water on her face, sun in her eyes, being extremely sensitive to heat/itchiness, the emotinoal sensitivity, extreme imagination.... that little bit of extra knowledge just tightens my belief that we do need to be a bit more cautious to not 'injure her soul', b/c she will take things to heart and internalize them.


To me, any info a parent can use to better guide their child as they grow develop, more power to them.

Tammy

[Butter]

I agree that knowing my daughter is gifted has helped me deal better with her "issues." But I didn't need a test to "prove" anything.

[Itlbokay]

Originally Posted by blessed

I've seen several poster refer to six year olds as starting age for kindergarten. This isn't right, is it?

I was 4.5 when I started K (also born in December), which admittedly was the early option. Most of the December kids stayed back and started K at 5 and 1st grade at 6. The hard and fast rule was that the child had to be 5 by the first day of first grade. So for example, at your daughter's age, I was in second grade.

And then, thinking back on high school everyone was either 17 or 18 at graduation, with the only 19 year olds being kids who were behind schedule for whatever reason. And isn't the typical college grad 22, and not 23?

Are you all sure about the starting ages? Maybe it's changed since I was a kid (waaay back when)?

In our area I have seen quite a few kids who have been held back, or whose parents delayed K entrance due to summer birthdays and/or for emotional reasons, which then leads to seeing quite a few teenagers graduating high school at the age of 19, or turn 19 very soon after graduation... I have a friend whose Dd is in 4th grade and has a classmate who just turned 13 due to his having failed several grades.

I feel delaying K entrance can definitely benefit some children in the beginning, but then wonder if that prolonged adolescence is healthy in a society that seems to drag that phase out already?

As for the topic of the thread - I agree with others that testing isn't a necessary thing to do, but am interested in having our youngest tested for several reasons (one being proper grade placement) and understand a parent wanting to do so.

[reeseccup]

As my oldest son said when "they" wanted to test him for the gifted program, "Why? I already know I'm smart, so why do I need to be tested and labled to tell me what I already know?", so I never had him tested, therefore not labled.


All of my children are quite bright, but I will never have them tested. I'm not one to put lables on my children. They are who they are with out them. You'll know how to guide your childs learning by his own wants and needs, you don't need a test that lables him to tell YOUhow to teach him. Do what you feel is best for yours though.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by quaz

With my oldest, I've questioned several times if she has SIDS.... but when I've looked at it, it didn't fit. Finding out the information on Dabrowski's overexcitabilities and finding tips on how to deal with some of them, really did help.... while the SIDS info never quite fits....

You do mean SID, not SIDS, I assume. Sensory integration disorder.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree about the rest...

dar

[quaz]

Originally Posted by Dar

You do mean SID, not SIDS, I assume. Sensory integration disorder.

And we're just going to have to agree to disagree about the rest...

dar

Sorry, running on 5 hours of sleep of night, while preggo and 2 kids under 4, and typing while nursing. No time to proof, let alone think.

Yup. Everyone can have their own point of view. My personal view is no need for testing, but info on giftedness can only help, just like info on learning styles can help. *shrug*

Tammy

[AuntLavender]

My 9yo learned to read on his own when he was 4. He knows the periodic table of the elements now by heart because he is interested in it (he know the number of protons and the weight as well as the abbreviations and where they go on the chart). I take him to the library and buy him science kits ti suit his interests.

My 2nd an 8yo likes to cook *a lot*. (We just spent $35 at the grocery store...)

My 3rd a 6 1/2 yo is just learning to read. (I read to her many times a day.)

My 4th who just turned 3 has chromosome 22 issues (non-verbal).

Children are all individual. You will understand their learning styles as they get older I feel. I don't think a single test is a good measure of anything. Your relatives are well intentioned I think! Best wishes!