Not working for hind milk

[missmossy]

We've been dealing wtih this for almost a month and I'm at the end of my rope. Here's the basics.

DD is almost 5 months. She nurses for a bit just fine, then the milk either slows down or stops (don't know, I assume that's the foremilk) and then she cries. She'll try to nurse for a second but if the milk isn't right there she freaks out. I keep trying and trying but she never gets any (I can express some so I know "something" is there) and she just gets more and more worked up.

I called an LC who said I should give her formula. She said I could pump to increase my supply but I don't really know if it's a supply issue. Maybe it is supply.. I don't know. I can't figure it out. I'll switch back and forth but she just gets that first burst of milk from the second side and flips out again. If she's still partly asleep, she nurses alot better. She just keeps going, not realizing that there is nothing there for a bit.

She's teething but doesn't seem to be bothered by it.
I drink plenty of water and haven't lost weight
She's not sick.
I'm not sick.
I'm worn out.
She's hungry.

Thanks for any thoughts. BTW, this is my first post with this user name. I used to post here alot years ago but I figured I'd just start over since I couldn't remember my password etc.

Kat

[JamieCatheryn]

Funny how some LC's go directly to formula as a solution, I don't think those ones should be in that field. Have you tried breast compression to sort of help the flow continue? http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15bre...mpression.html Or stopping altogether and massaging the breast for a minute so it may flow easier when you put her back on? I have to do that when I pump.

To increase supply, eat oatmeal, drink more water, take fenugreek and blessed thistle, drink mother's milk tea. Any or all of these will help. If you increase your supply it won't matter too much if she gets to the hindmilk because there would be so much foremilk, though you'd have to feed often and her poop would be green

[alegna]

Does she ever get bottles? If so, stop them. I'm thinking that she wants the fast flow.

and BAH to that LC.

good luck!

-Angela

[lyttlewon]

Try the breast compressions that were mentioned further up in the thread. Also are you using bottles? Make sure they are slow flow newborn nipples. That might help as well. I used breast compressions around 9 months or so and it worked. The fussyness only lasted a couple of days so I am not sure if it was a phase or not.

[missmossy]

The first time she ever got a bottle was after this all started. She'd been crying and trying to nurse for hours and was hysterical so I gave her some milk that I had in the freezer. She's had a couple since then but only when things have gotten desperate.

Last night I hand expressed into a cup and fed her that way but I couldn't get enough.

I;ll try the compressions.

[alegna]

If she's having enough diapers then I would not supplement. Let her nurse nurse nurse.

good luck!

-Angela

[MaryJaneLouise]

Originally Posted by missmossy

We've been dealing wtih this for almost a month and I'm at the end of my rope. Here's the basics.

DD is almost 5 months. She nurses for a bit just fine, then the milk either slows down or stops (don't know, I assume that's the foremilk) and then she cries. She'll try to nurse for a second but if the milk isn't right there she freaks out. I keep trying and trying but she never gets any (I can express some so I know "something" is there) and she just gets more and more worked up.

I called an LC who said I should give her formula. She said I could pump to increase my supply but I don't really know if it's a supply issue. Maybe it is supply.. I don't know. I can't figure it out. I'll switch back and forth but she just gets that first burst of milk from the second side and flips out again. If she's still partly asleep, she nurses alot better. She just keeps going, not realizing that there is nothing there for a bit.

She's teething but doesn't seem to be bothered by it.
I drink plenty of water and haven't lost weight
She's not sick.
I'm not sick.
I'm worn out.
She's hungry.

Thanks for any thoughts. BTW, this is my first post with this user name. I used to post here alot years ago but I figured I'd just start over since I couldn't remember my password etc.

Kat

Crazy idea, but could she have reflux? They tend to nurse better when half asleep. Mine would scream like crazy when "half full" because he had a burp that wouldn't come up, and it HURT! to quit swallowing / keeping it down.

Here's info on reflux:

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/reflux.html

[missmossy]

Crazy idea, but could she have reflux?

BINGO!

I feel so stupid! I always thought of reflux as babies spitting up and she doesn't so I never thought about that as a possibility. I followed the link that you gave and it mentioned silent reflux, I googled that and then hauled her to the dr this afternoon and that's what she has. I feel terrible but I'm glad that she maybe won't be so miserable now (except when taking the meds because they taste BAD!)

Thanks!!

[MaryJaneLouise]

Originally Posted by missmossy

BINGO!

I feel so stupid! I always thought of reflux as babies spitting up and she doesn't so I never thought about that as a possibility. I followed the link that you gave and it mentioned silent reflux, I googled that and then hauled her to the dr this afternoon and that's what she has. I feel terrible but I'm glad that she maybe won't be so miserable now (except when taking the meds because they taste BAD!)

Thanks!!

I do hope that helps.

Many people bfing reflux babes find cutting out cow's milk from their diet helps too.

Also on the teething -- sometimes refusal to nurse is one of the signs. You might try the Hyland's teething tablets, or some tylenol if you're comfortable with that.

[womancaredoula]

re: hindmilk

My last postpartum doula client was told by her LC (a hospital based one) that foremilk vs. hindmilk is "old news" and that both kinds of milk come out at the same time. Anyone else heard this? The LC had just come back from a conference on breastfeeding. How could the LC community have had it wrong all this time?

-Barbara

[afishwithabike]

When we went through tis I pumped a little before hand then latched them on. It seemed to help a lot.

[MaryJaneLouise]

Originally Posted by womancaredoula

My last postpartum doula client was told by her LC (a hospital based one) that foremilk vs. hindmilk is "old news" and that both kinds of milk come out at the same time. Anyone else heard this? The LC had just come back from a conference on breastfeeding. How could the LC community have had it wrong all this time?

-Barbara

I'm no expert on this, but I think this is a good explanation of fore milk vs hind milk:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fo...-hindmilk.html

Really, the only difference is the % fat in the milk. The milk that comes out first is more water because it has been stored. The milk that comes out later is more fat because it is being made on the fly.

[momileigh]

I know that milk sinuses are "old news" (they don't exist, they are simply a temporary flaring of the milk duct during the MER) but fore/hind milk can't be wrong. I have seen it over and over again when I pump. If I just pump, I get bluish, watery milk. If I feed my baby and pump afterward, I get thick white cream.

[smeep]

DO NOT supplement with formula! Gah, I can't believe any LCs actually suggest that since it almost always just makes things worse. I am almost positive this is a matter of nipple confusion/preference. Does she receive bottles at all? (Pumped milk and/or formula.) Or pacifiers? Also, does she nurse better at nite?

Get back to me on that and I'll let you know what to do.

[Pandora114]

Give your babe a good burp when she unlatches and see if that helps.

[missmossy]

DO NOT supplement with formula! Gah, I can't believe any LCs actually suggest that since it almost always just makes things worse. I am almost positive this is a matter of nipple confusion/preference. Does she receive bottles at all? (Pumped milk and/or formula.) Or pacifiers? Also, does she nurse better at nite?

Get back to me on that and I'll let you know what to do.

She's only had a couple of bottles (breastmilk) and that was all after this mess started. She nursed well if she was mostly asleep but not while awake.

She's on the medication for reflux and doing much much better. The day time feedings are excellent! Not as good in the evening but still better than before. The wake up call was MaryJaneLouise's post and the fact that (that afternoon) she was doing the exact same thing with the bottle that she did when she nursed (cried, arched her back etc)

I was really frustrated with that LC too. I really couldnt' believe the first thing she said was formula. It doesn't really seem like she likes her job

I appreciate everyone's help!!

[smeep]

Well I hope things get better! Formula can only make it worse so keep on with the breastmilk mama!