baby not gaining weight

[tash11]

We went to a LC when my daugter was 4 days old. after a month of working on minor issues (mostly how, and how much supplement to give) she was finally back to her birth weight (7lbs 4oz). By 6 weeks she was gaining about 3/4oz a day and was taking about 4-6oz of supplement (babys only organic soy) a day. The LC was happy with that so we stopped seeing her.

At the 2 month wbv she weighed 9lbs5oz. That was good. I was trying things like mother milk tea, fenugreek, and more milk special blend. The more milk was working well, and baby was taking less supplement at a time (down to .5-2oz, sometimes 3oz). So I stopped offering it to her as often. I weigh her at my parent group every wend. In may she weighed 9lbs15oz, 10lbs2oz, 10lbs2oz, and 10lbs1oz.

Today the ped weighed her at 9lbs 10oz (I know she didnt loose 7oz in less then a week, I just think the scales are diffrent). The ped says she gained about 5oz in 2 months (actually I think it was closer to 6 maybe 7 weeks) and that she fell off the charts (not sure which chart hes using). He said that formula has 20 calories an oz and he wants to increase it to 24 calories an oz (thats only about 16 extra calories a day). So he wants us to increase the powder vs water ratio.

the funny thing about this is that I gained 10lbs since our last wbv. I eat lots since I dont want my food intake to affect my supply.

My ped is great I just dont think hes an expert on supply issues. He didnt ask what kind of surgery or how it was done. He didnt know what a lact-aid was. He didnt seem to think too highly of more milk plus (or galactagugs in general). And he had never heard of babys only or of formula that didnt come with a scoop (cant really blame him there, there are a lot of diffrent formula companies out there). I told him the only thing I hadent tried really was reglan. He didnt seem to know what that was either.

My mil was there too (long story) and she asked if we should start rice ceral to help with the weight gain. My ped (why I think hes cool) told her that rice is 'ok' but that babies dont need anything other then milk for the first year. Thats when he told us just to increase the calories in the supplement.

[TurboClaudia]

so she is now 4 months old (calculating from your siggie).

did you have a question or were you just venting/sharing?



~claudia

[tash11]

Originally Posted by TurboClaudia

so she is now 4 months old (calculating from your siggie).

did you have a question or were you just venting/sharing?



~claudia

yes she is 4 months (sorry)

I just want to hear if anyone has any other suggestions.

[Boobiemama]

I would go back to a LC or contact a local LLL leader. You are right, most drs arent the most knowledgeable about breastfeeding.
While there are variations in weight gain for different babies, a normal trend is to gain, so she should be at least gaining something.
Is your supply ok now? I would nurse more for now and get in contact with someone.
We had difficulties in the beginning also, and it took a month for Ruby to regain her birthweight but things seem great now.

[tash11]

apparently my supply isnt ok since shes not really gaining. I do feel fuller and leak more when I use the more milk special blend though.

I try to nurse all the time, but sometimes she just doenst want to. I think it might be because shes older and there are just more intresting things to do then nurse.

I think I am going to call my LC tomorrow. The biggest problem I have with LLL leaders is they seem more like tape players and they just playback a lecture at meetings. I do like that they exist though, but my LC was great in the begining.

[mama-a-llama]

Originally Posted by tash11

And he had never heard of babys only or of formula that didnt come with a scoop (cant really blame him there, there are a lot of diffrent formula companies out there). I told him the only thing I hadent tried really was reglan. He didnt seem to know what that was either.

I think Baby's Only is the only formula that doesn't. Did it come up when discussing how to concentrate the formula to 24 calories? I calculated it once, because I fortify my bm with it. I can check later if you need to know. Had he not heard of reglan as a supply booster, or had no idea what it was at all? If the latter, that disturbs me, b/c some babies take it, for reflux.

I agree with PPs, see the LC again. If you can get a Babyweigh scale, which is specially calibrated to be very sensitive, you can figure out pretty accurately how much milk she's getting from nursing. It would probably be helpful to check out her intake. If that turns out to be getting her enough calories, and she still isn't gaining, then you would want to dig deeper for medical reasons that she wouldn't gain.

[sunnysideup]

There is a good book called Mother Food, by Hilary jacobson, on foods that help to increase milk supply. It might be helpful to look at that.

Originally Posted by tash11

The biggest problem I have with LLL leaders is they seem more like tape players and they just playback a lecture at meetings.

Is there another group in your area? Because I have not found this to be true. The Leaders I have known have been very knowledgable and helpful. Usually the monthly meetings I've been to are guided by the Leaders, with most of the input from the moms (not at all lecture-like) and they are just a small part of what the Leaders do--they also do a lot of phone counseling, meeting individually with moms that need help, enrichment meetings, etc.

[pinkmilk]

there's also a low milk supply tribe so try there too with your questions.
hugs to you momma...my dd was and is still very small and it's hard not to worry...she's 2 and 19 pounds...but healthy and happy!

[tash11]

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I think Baby's Only is the only formula that doesn't. Did it come up when discussing how to concentrate the formula to 24 calories? I calculated it once, because I fortify my bm with it. I can check later if you need to know. Had he not heard of reglan as a supply booster, or had no idea what it was at all? If the latter, that disturbs me, b/c some babies take it, for reflux.

Yeah he was trying to tell me how many scoops to use. but then we just decided that algebra would work better. He did ask that I bring in the can next time so he can see it. I plan on also bringing in my lact-aid since he had never heard of it and thought I was reffering to the lactaid stuff that helps with lactose intolerence or something.... I figure it to be 6T to 8oz of water.
When I mentioned reglan he kinda brushed it off like doctors often do. I guess because he has no knowledge of supply boosters

Originally Posted by mama-a-llama

I agree with PPs, see the LC again. If you can get a Babyweigh scale, which is specially calibrated to be very sensitive, you can figure out pretty accurately how much milk she's getting from nursing. It would probably be helpful to check out her intake. If that turns out to be getting her enough calories, and she still isn't gaining, then you would want to dig deeper for medical reasons that she wouldn't gain.

I bought a scale. but the as was wrong. in th ad it said that it was accurate to .1oz, but when I got it I found that it was only accutrate to .1 oz up to 2lbs. that does not help me at all. So I sent it back and got a refund.

She wets just fine with milk alone, but her poops go down to about twice a week when she doesnt get supplement so this makes me think shes not getting enough calories. With the supplement (about 4oz a day) she poops every 36-48 hours.

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

.... Is there another group in your area? Because I have not found this to be true. The Leaders I have known have been very knowledgable and helpful. Usually the monthly meetings I've been to are guided by the Leaders, with most of the input from the moms (not at all lecture-like) and they are just a small part of what the Leaders do--they also do a lot of phone counseling, meeting individually with moms that need help, enrichment meetings, etc.

I have been to three groups. two regular and one T&T. The T&T was the only one that was discussion format and not lecture format. I think that was because there isnt really much like it so it isnt as structured. I dont do well with lectures and I dont do well with too much structure like that. Its good for other people, just not me. I go to meetings anyway just to have somewhere to go since I get bored. It just doesnt feel "guided" it feels lecutred. Like they tolerate the moms talking, but take the coversation back over as soon as they can. I dont think its bad in general. Its just bad for me. And I really like my LC anyway. Shes nice and we can do more one on one stuff. Plus I am one of those people who feels better paying for stuff.



I have been to the low supply tribe. and the million plus post thread thats how we got this forum right?

[MaryJaneLouise]

Have you tried domperidone? I don't know if that helps with BFAR.

Are you using the More Milk Plus with goat's rue? I think that's supposed to be better for BFAR.

[tash11]

Yeah, the more milk special has goats rue.

it really does help. but the ped didnt seem to think much of it. but hes a ped, what does he know?

I havent tried dom yet because I have heard it can be hard to get and I dont want my supply to go down because the shipment didnt go through. I am also a tiny bit worried by the side effects.

[turtlemama77]

Just wanted to pop in and say that it's not uncommon for exclusively breastfed babies to have infrequent poops. Frequency of poops may not be the best way to judge how many calories a baby is getting. Here's a link to info about that: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enoughmilk-older.html

Hope that helps!

About LLL...have you tried contacting the leader and just talking with her instead of attending a meeting? Most leaders are willing to help one on one and I have found them to be very knowledgeable. It's hard in a group setting, especially a large group, for things to be very conversational and there's so much info that leaders want to share. Just a thought...the LLL leader may have some ideas the LC hasn't thought of yet. I admire you for sticking with breastfeeding...many mamas who have troubles give up rather than do the work you're doing!

[Love my 2]

Quote:
the funny thing about this is that I gained 10lbs since our last wbv. I eat lots since I dont want my food intake to affect my supply.

My ped is great I just dont think hes an expert on supply issues. He didnt ask what kind of surgery or how it was done.
Quote

These raise questions for me. the first is, have you had surgery on your breasts? When and what kind?

Also, weight gain without a change in diet could indicate a thyroid problem which could affect the milk supply.

I agree with the others, I would suggest a repeat visit with the LC. For now, keepup the galactogogues you are using and maybe try pumping between feeds. Spend lots of time skin-to-skin with her and relax! Maybe a day or two just hanging out in bed or on the couch, no running around trying to get errands and things done. This can do wonders for your milk supply.

[tash11]

Originally Posted by turtlemama77

Just wanted to pop in and say that it's not uncommon for exclusively breastfed babies to have infrequent poops. Frequency of poops may not be the best way to judge how many calories a baby is getting. Here's a link to info about that: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enoughmilk-older.html...

yeah but its not frequency of poops alone, its everything along with that. if she was only pooping once a week but was still gaining weight it wouldnt be an issue. my notes on her compared to kellymom:

WEIGHT GAIN:
If baby is gaining well on mom’s milk alone, then baby is getting enough. More on weight gain. Average weight gain for breastfed babies: 0 - 4 mo 6 oz /week 4 - 6 mo 4 - 5 oz/week 6 - 12 mo 2 - 4 oz/week

she gained 5oz between her 2 month visit (just past 2 months actually, total time between visits was about 7 weeks) and her 4 month visit. according to that chart she should gain at least that much in a week.

WET DIAPERS: 4 - 5+ sopping wet diapers per day.
To feel what a sufficiently wet diaper is like, pour 4-6 tablespoons (60-90 mL) of water into a clean diaper (if baby wets more often, then the amount of urine per diaper may be less). Diapers may be wetter in the morning, especially with older babies. Urine should be pale and mild smelling.

she does have lots of diapers. I change her constantly, even if she is just a little wet, but she will useually pee 10-15 times a day at least. One day I changed her 17 times! She is haveing fewer diapers recently, but they are a little fuller.
when she pees during a change or when we are able to catch a pee with ec they are almost always light yellow or clear. sometimes in the morning with ec it will be a little darker.

DIRTY DIAPERS: Depends on your child.
Number ranges from many per day to one every 7 – 10+ days. After 4 - 6 weeks, some babies switch to an infrequent stooling pattern. This is normal as long as baby is gaining well, and stools are soft and profuse if several days have passed. More on infant stooling.

without supplement: 1-2 a week, not very much total
with supplement: every 36-48 hours (sometimes every 24). starts more solid (from the formula) and ends with lots of gooey stuff

OTHER POSITIVE SIGNS: After a feeding, mom’s breast feels softer and baby seems reasonably content. Baby is alert, active and meeting developmental milestones.

my breasts have only ever felt full when I was engorged and in the morning. A few weeks ago I started not feeling full or leaking in the morning. I hear this is normal around this time.
She useually falls asleep while eating. This accounts for the majority of her naptime.
She is alert when she is awake, and is meeting milestones nicely.

[tash11]

Originally Posted by Love my 2

These raise questions for me. the first is, have you had surgery on your breasts? When and what kind?

yes, I am bfar. I think I had the infieror pedicule type. I dont know for sure since I dont have the charts or anything from it, but I do know that he left the nipple attached. This was back in aug of 2004.

Originally Posted by Love my 2

....I agree with the others, I would suggest a repeat visit with the LC. For now, keepup the galactogogues you are using and maybe try pumping between feeds. Spend lots of time skin-to-skin with her and relax! Maybe a day or two just hanging out in bed or on the couch, no running around trying to get errands and things done. This can do wonders for your milk supply.

Basicly what I do all day, everyday, is sit around with the baby, her and I are both topless all day unless we go out. I HAVE to go places though for my own sanity. Mostly I just go to my parent group (where she eats and naps) and the store (where she eats and naps in a carrier) so I can buy food to eat. We also will take a walk about once a day. (she fusses if we just sit at home because she gets bored). This is all we have done since she was born.

My food intake is up from before I got pregnant. I feel like I eat 4 times as much, but it prolly isnt. Yesterday I had a bowl of oatmeal (made with soymilk instead of water), two boca brats with 8 grain bread, and a big blizzard (this is something I need to cut down on). I also drink mainly juice (only 100% juice). And I took my more milk of course. The only place I went was on a walk to go buy the blizzard.


so if its a thyroid thing how do I find out? are thyroid issues common after pregnancy/birth

[mama-a-llama]

Originally Posted by tash11

Yeah he was trying to tell me how many scoops to use. but then we just decided that algebra would work better. He did ask that I bring in the can next time so he can see it. I plan on also bringing in my lact-aid since he had never heard of it and thought I was reffering to the lactaid stuff that helps with lactose intolerence or something.... I figure it to be 6T to 8oz of water.

Just for reference, one scoop is 2 3/4 tsp, by my calculation. So 6T would be about 2 scoops. Now, wait, you're doing 24 calorie? Because I was recently told 3 scoops to 5.5 oz water for 22 calorie, which is less concentrated. 6T to 8 oz sounds low to me.

[tash11]

On the back of the can it says 5T to 8oz water. We did the math and came up with 6T to 8oz water to make 24calories an oz. But babys only doesnt come with a scooper. I just use my regular tablespoon.

[christiab]

Everything I have read about increasing calories says not to concentrate formula b/c it provides too much sodium and protein (among other things) for an infant's kidneys. The high calorie formulas add additional fats and carbohydrates to make up for the difference in calories. You may want to check with a pediatric dietician for more info.

Also, don't be suprised if her formula intake goes down when you switch to higher calorie stuff. If she is eating according to HER needs, she may eat less to make up for having higher calorie foods.

Good luck!

[tash11]

my LC said that if the ped thinks her kidneys can handel it to go for it. she only gets about 4oz a day or so of supplement.