I just saw the most horrible thing ever - Page 5

[Viola]

Originally Posted by kelly81

I guess I was shocked that my friend would go on and on about her "horrible c/s" and how "this wasn't her ideal birth" to someone who just lost a child. It was selfish and yes, she should have been greatful that he lived and I had every right to tell her so.

That is rather shocking, in my opinion. It shows a lack of sensitivity. Not that she doesn't have the right to complain about her situation and try and process it, but she had to know that saying these things to you would be very hurtful. I'm so sorry for your loss and for how you were treated afterwards.

[joesmom]

Echoing what Viola said... I can remember feeling sad that Joe was born at 3:09 & I did not wake up to see him until 7 that evening- then I read about mamas here whose babies were stillborn... it put it into perspective for me- & TO ME- the four hours I missed, the fact that I did not have the peaceful natural birth I expected to have- that is all trumped by the fact that I came home with my child.

[dove]

kelly81, you may not necessarily be looking for a healing experience, but sometimes they come with no warning or pretense. I'm not confused - I do know deep, deep loss, just not in the same way as you, however.
I will continue to wish you much healing in this matter, and lots of love to all of the other mamas who have had a traumatic birth or non-ideal birth.

[HoosierDiaperinMama]

Originally Posted by kelly81

It just reminded me of a situation with a friend of mine..we were due a week apart. I delivered first and Alyssa died...she delivered a week later and went through labor, but ended up with a C/S, a horrible one at that... and she kept complaining about how "This was not her ideal birth, this isn't the way I wanted to birth my first child" All I could say was..."Yeah well your child is alive isn't he?"

s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.

[kelly81]

Originally Posted by HoosierDiaperinMama

s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.

I am with you 100% No one truly understands what it's like to lose a child, unless they've experienced it..and when you have, you know there is nothing on this earth that is worse than that kind of pain.

Thank you to Viola and Joesmom for understandig where I am coming from.

Dove, thank for you well wishes.

[JoAida]

I can't imagine the pain of losing a child. I'm so sorry to all the mamas who have had that happen to them.


That said...

I always dreamed of homebirths. I had 4 c/sections. Maybe I could have possibly had a vaginal birth with one or more of them, but I took the risks as too high and had scheduled/non-emergency c/sections with them instead. That way, we knew when they were coming, and there were lots of people prepared to help if need be, and even if I died, I knew my baby would be okay. I calculated my risks, and had pretty good births. I would so much rather be cut open than risk my babies. SO MUCH.

My first was 42 weeks and 9.5 lbs. I have a weird angle to my pelvis. There was a pretty decent chance he was going to get stuck. They even did a vertical incision so they wouldn't have to fight to get him out of my tummy. His head was 15" and his chest was 14.75". #2 was breech-butt first. #3 had very low fluid and some other problems. #4 well, I just wasn't willing to risk the previous incisions coming undone.

I love my birth experiences. I would do it again if my body could handle it...and again...and again.

Now I read a thread that shows a relatively average c/section, (some are more gentle, sure, as emergency ones are a lot less laid-back) and something I have had done 4 times and have been the way my beautiful children have come into the world is being called "the worst thing" someone has ever seen. Worse than anything else....ever seen....ever.

I guess to me it's like someone going into my old neighborhood and calling it the slums when I had a wonderful childhood growing up there.

I'm sorry your experience was so traumatic.

I can't put my finger on it...but it's bugging me.

[oddeebean]

Goodness, if you think that was violent then don't ever watch a video of open heart surgery! They basically band-saw your chest open and crank it apart. I've never really heard of a gentle or peaceful surgery process, and a C-section is major surgery so there you go.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by a-sorta-fairytale

For the person who wanted to know more about my dd. I cannot give much detail as the hosp is STILL facing trouble because of all the mismanagement form mine and my dds "care" there. But according to the top neurologist in my state dd was damaged by the head yanking. He yanked on her head back and forth in a whipping motion so hard i nearly fell off the table - i am not a small person. He reufsed to open any of the incisions wider to get more space instead he just kept yanking and yanking for over 10 minutes...
I cannot say more but that is a part of it.

OMG, that is horrifying.

Thank you for sharing what I know must be very difficult to talk about. I have truly always wondered what the baby would possibly die of or be permanently damaged from during a c-section. I can see if the baby is delivered too early (which happens way more than it should with scheduled c-sections), is having breathing issues that are likely NOT life threatening, however then they end up in the NICU with all the germs and such, and I can see how a baby might end up with some infection that kills them.

Other than that though, I just have never heard of anything worse than a baby being cut during a section. While I certainly don't want my baby to be cut, it's not life threatening by any stretch of the imagination.

But this with yanking on her poor little head instead of extending the incisions is awful. One of the biggest advantages of a c-section is you CAN make the exit space bigger, something that is a lot harder to do with vaginal delivery where you're dealing with pelvic bones if baby is stuck.

Cut me in frickin half if you must, but to yank on the baby's head like that when a bigger incision would have likely solved the problem? That makes NO sense whatsoever, and I truly hope that doctor loses his butt over your daughter's birth. You'd think with 30% of all babies being born by section, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to cut the hole bigger if necessary.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by HoosierDiaperinMama

s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.

You know, one would think that people would consider their audience when talking about something that is bothering them. It just seems so.....well, obvious.

It happens in all areas of life, and it amazes me. I mean, it's one thing if you've lost a child and you are lurking around on birth story boards where people are trying to process a difficult birth. But these conversations IRL where moms are complaining about their 'less than perfect' births to another mom who JUST lost her baby during birth? That is SO not appropriate.

I am currently pg with #4, a complete surprise that we were not absolutely thrilled about and are still working through the idea of adding a new baby to the family. We obviously will love this baby, of that I have no doubt. And I *am* getting more excited as the weeks pass (I am now 12+ weeks).

Anyhow, there are two girls on another board I post on that were due within a week of me, both dearly wanted to be pg. Both miscarried recently, and it just seems so unfair, ya know? I cannot *imagine* posting things knowing they will see the posts about how tiresome the all day sickness is or how we are still struggling some days to come to terms with the huge change our family is about to experience. That would be incredibly insensitive IMO, even though my feelings are perfectly valid and it is OK for me to feel this way.

It seems like it shouldn't take a genius to figure out there are times where it's just not appropriate to complain, whine, whatever over a situation when the person you are complaining to would dearly LOVE to take your place.

[wifeandmom]

Double post.

[kelly81]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

You know, one would think that people would consider their audience when talking about something that is bothering them. It just seems so.....well, obvious.

It happens in all areas of life, and it amazes me. I mean, it's one thing if you've lost a child and you are lurking around on birth story boards where people are trying to process a difficult birth. But these conversations IRL where moms are complaining about their 'less than perfect' births to another mom who JUST lost her baby during birth? That is SO not appropriate.

I am currently pg with #4, a complete surprise that we were not absolutely thrilled about and are still working through the idea of adding a new baby to the family. We obviously will love this baby, of that I have no doubt. And I *am* getting more excited as the weeks pass (I am now 12+ weeks).

Anyhow, there are two girls on another board I post on that were due within a week of me, both dearly wanted to be pg. Both miscarried recently, and it just seems so unfair, ya know? I cannot *imagine* posting things knowing they will see the posts about how tiresome the all day sickness is or how we are still struggling some days to come to terms with the huge change our family is about to experience. That would be incredibly insensitive IMO, even though my feelings are perfectly valid and it is OK for me to feel this way.

It seems like it shouldn't take a genius to figure out there are times where it's just not appropriate to complain, whine, whatever over a situation when the person you are complaining to would dearly LOVE to take your place.

I totally agree with you

[HoosierDiaperinMama]

Thank you, wifeandmom for understanding. Blessings in this pregnancy. s

And Kelly,

Originally Posted by kelly81

I am with you 100% No one truly understands what it's like to lose a child, unless they've experienced it..and when you have, you know there is nothing on this earth that is worse than that kind of pain.

: s

[MamaTaraX]

havne't read replies but...
This is something that made me upset about Birth Day Live. The idea was/is to show births happening live. Good idea. Most of them turn out to be c/s though. They show the whole thing. From incision to suture. Some of them are extremely bloody, very graphic, and often kind of terrifying or at the very least mean-looking (docs yanking on babies, pushing on bellies, etc) But they didn't show babies being born vaginally which were probaly far less graphic and violent in appearance. Anywayk, I'll goback and read replies.

Namaste, Tara

[dove]

So, now - we all know that birth trauma or not having the birth you envisioned can be traumatic...right? So why can't that be discussed without saying "well, you have never known this kind of pain, you are insensitive?..."
I can see how it could seem very insensitive if you are in the position of being a mama who has lost a baby, but really it's not even in the same league (and obviously we are all agreeing with that), so why make it an adverserial issue? why create "sides"? why can't we agree that trauma is trauma and what is the greatest personal trauma for me may not be as bad as yours, but it is still traumatic and deserves care. Compassion still needs to be extended, imo.

[Finch]

I think of it in terms of my son having autism and having friends with all "normal" children for the most part, and hearing them complain about mundane/stupid (IMO) things about their kids that just makes me want to scream.

Part of you wants to jump through the phone and just read them the riot act and tell them "count your effing blessings, you ninny. You don't have to do xyz with your child, you don't know what trials and tribulations with childrearing are until you've raised a child with special needs." But then I step back for a moment and realize....everyone has their own cross to bear.

Autism may be difficult, but there are moms on this board who have children that cannot walk, cannot eat, cannot breathe on their own. My child can do all of those things. It doesn't invalidate my feelings of grief and rage about my own child's situation and diagnosis, but it puts it into perspective.

My child can breathe, he can laugh, he can walk. He is not tube-fed, he does not have seizures, and is for the most part physiologically healthy. When I take my son to OT every week, inevitably we see children in wheelchairs, with trachs, with halos, feeding tubes, in walkers, etc. etc.. It puts it into perspective.

I guess what I am trying to say is that while everyone is entitled to their grief and is entitled to their feelings, sometimes taking a look at those around you who truly do have it worse can really put things in perspective. What seems like a tragedy at the time turns into something entirely manageable once you look at the things other people around you are dealing with.

For me, personally, a cesarean is not a tragedy. A dead child is. Having witnessed both very traumatic c-sections and very gentle deliveries of a stillborn child, if given the choice I would choose the former. Having seen both, first hand, up close and personal, makes me agree with Hoosier and Kelly and wifeandmom. When it all comes down to it, IMO (can't state this enough...it's simply my OPINION here, folks), having a c-section but ending up with a live baby is a price I would willingly pay over and over and over. I have never given birth to a stillborn child personally, but having witnessed it many many MANY times, it really puts the whole "a c-section is a tragedy" mindset into perspective.

Just my 2 cents.

[dove]

yes, looking to others who are less fortunate can definitely put things into perspective, but it doesn't erase one's own feelings, nor should it. I don't see why the caring and compassion can't go both ways. That is what is actually really irking me. I remember feeling like I was just drowning in the absolute most horrific, hearwrenching time of my life, but it still didn't turn my ability to have compassion for others off, no matter what they were going through. I guess some people just have immense capabilities for caring and concern and some don't. I should not expect that of others, evidently.

[Finch]

Originally Posted by dove

yes, looking to others who are less fortunate can definitely put things into perspective, but it doesn't erase one's own feelings, nor should it. I don't see why the caring and compassion can't go both ways. That is what is actually really irking me. I remember feeling like I was just drowning in the absolute most horrific, hearwrenching time of my life, but it still didn't turn my ability to have compassion for others off, no matter what they were going through. I guess some people just have immense capabilities for caring and concern and some don't. I should not expect that of others, evidently.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I said, you are still entitled to your own feelings of grief and rage, but looking at others' situations puts it very much into perspective.

I'm sorry, I just feel strongly for HDM and Kelly, as I have taken care of many many many women as they labored and delivered stillborn babies. I have had to tell a mother I cannot find a heartbeat. I have coded babies for hours only to have them die despite all our efforts. I guess I've just seen some pretty horrific things wrt to childbirth, and once you've witnessed that kind of stuff, been a part of it, in the thick of it, it really puts it into perspective.

I *understand* why some women grieve over having c-sections or inductions or whatever. They are entitled to their grief. But I very much understand the perspective of a mother who has lost a child. It's something you just can't explain until you've been there.

[dove]

Me, too - I've done all of that and a bag of chips. I feel for them immensely and can literally picture what they have been through because I have btdt with other women...
sorry I took you wrong...but I still wanted to say what I said, anyway.
I think I will leave it alone now.

continuing to wish healing and understanding to all...

[Finch]

Originally Posted by dove

Me, too - I've done all of that and a bag of chips. I feel for them immensely and can literally picture what they have been through because I have btdt with other women...
sorry I took you wrong...but I still wanted to say what I said, anyway.
I think I will leave it alone now.

continuing to wish healing and understanding to all...

[apple_dumpling]

Just wanted to give a hug out there to all the mama's who lost their precious babies. I had an emergency c/s due to my blood pressure (it was up in the heart attack/stroke range) and I will admit I did complain a little to people about not having the birth I wanted...

Not too long after dd was born, I had a dear friend in another state lose her baby at 38 weeks due to a placental abruption.. it was such a shock, and never again have I complained about my c/s... because I did get to come home with my babe, no matter how violent my birth was, I walked out with a baby, and the sadness I feel for my friend (and all of you mamas who have experienced a loss) is so overwhelming that it forced me to put the whole birthing process into perspective... and to realize how selfish it is of me to even think about having had a horrible birth (and yes it was traumatic) when there are mamas out there who are grieving so terribly.

hugs again.