blue/black cohosh

[NCjen]

Hey,
Anyone else on here working on inducing labor with these? I was "prescribed" them from my midwife in homeopathic form..cimicifuga and cauliphylum..
I am due the 15th and getting antsy.. anyone else? What are you doing to encourage labor to start? I know a lot of you are having a lot of contractions and signs of progress...I am not so I am trying anything I can. I go to an accupuncturist on Friday to see what she can do. I know they will come when they are ready.. but my son never did come on his own so I am a little paranoid I guess.

[Caroline248]

I have no experience with anything like that, and I would be afraid to try myself. Of course, I never had a baby that wouldn't come out on their own! I would personally think it was a little early to start anything that drastic....you figure if a normal pregnancy can last from 38-42 weeks, you are still right in there.......

And as for signs of progress, with my last son I was barely dilated and my cervix was long and hard, and he was born 4 days later...so who knows!!

~C~

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by NCjen

but my son never did come on his own...

ANY induction, ANY intervention is STILL rushing a baby that is not READY to be born. I am so, so upset about this "due date" obsession by the birth community. All babies are different. All babies (whether it feels like it now or not) will be born! I think prematurly inducing labour puts you at a high risk of a difficult labour and of course, c-section.

Every mother is impatient in these last weeks. I am looking for signs everyday for WHEN this baby will come. But the truth is, a baby will normally come any time from 38-42 weeks; that is also assuming you dead-on know conception dates.

When I was in the middle of my 60 hr labour last time, I took black cohosh but I don't think my body digested it. It just made me want to puke. Still, I know other women who swear by it.

The 15th is still a way off! Please reconsider thinking of a due month rather than a due date.

Good luck!

(I hope I didn't come off too bitchy)

[ckhagen]

I have two friends that have used it. One, it worked and she went into labor just hours later. The other, it made her sick and she didn't go into labor for weeks.

So, I believe that friend #1s baby was ready to come anyhow and probably would have very soon... friend #2s baby obviously wasn't.

Personally, I cannot take cohoshes because I'm a VBAC and could risk raising my chances of having a uterine rupture. Even if I could, I would not do it before my my EDD.

[sewaneecook]

Jumping in from July. I had a conversation with my m/w at my last appt about natural labor inducers. She said that after 38 wks it's ok ... they don't work unless the body (and baby) is ready.

With the black/blue cohosh (in the homeopathic form), she said to alternate them by day (one day black, next day blue).

Another thing that I've heard great success with is Evening Primrose Oil. Insert the capsules as a vaginal suppository (2-3 before bed, wear a pad, it tends to leak). And if you can DTD while they are up there, all the better!

For me, the risk of using natural labor inducers far outweighs the risk of having to be induced using pit or some other drug. Good luck with your trying to get labor started naturally this time around.

[BelgianSheepDog]

Didn't work for me at all, probably because it just wasn't time yet.

[mamamicky]

surprised by opininons of herbs

I am always surprised at the "herbs are dangerous" attitude I seem to see on the boards here. I would think there would be more of an understanding and trust of them at Mothering. Now, don't get me wrong, herbs are drugs. The original drugs if you will. There are risks and benefits to anything you put in your mouth, wear, or breathe. I mean, there are risks and benefits to the Food you put in your mouth. I think alot of people use herbs incorrectly and therefore have a problem or don't see results. You should either see an herbalist or do a ton of research before using herbs, especially in pregnancy or with children. Herbs can be used to inhance health, to cure, heal, strengthen, give vitamins and minerals and more. They can be used to inhance and not "rush".

The poster who said she used Black cohosh in the middle of a 60 hour labor - I am not sure why your midwife chose black cohosh but it is a uterine toner NOT stimulant. It would not have increased contractions on it's own. That is why black and blue are used together. Blue brings the contractions on - it is a strong stimulant and black kinda regulates them. At that stage black cohosh would not have done much but was possibly used to make the contractions more effective.

Remember also that homeopathic is VERY different from herbs. There are pretty much no risks with homeopathic. On the other hand there is no real evidence that it works either.

Also, I think acting like there is never a reason to induce is not realistic. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons for induction. Not every woman who goes to 44 weeks will have a normal, healthy baby. There are risks past 42 weeks. I think outside of a medical complication, using herbs, etc before 40 wks is not appropriate.

People seem to be much more comfortable with castor oil (which is their choice) but it has a very high failure rate (no real studies but just as people tell it) and has a very real chance of making baby poop in utero too, which is very risky. Maybe b/c poeple don't think of it as a drug or herb.

just my thoughts,
micky

[BelgianSheepDog]

I wouldn't assume that those of us who saw no results were just misguided. I was taking black and blue cohosh (the herbal version, not homeopathic) at the direction of a very skilled and experienced midwife. It just didn't work for me. Castor oil didn't work either, except in that it did strengthen what contractions I was having for about 36 hours. That's not to say the herbs aren't effective, just confirming what others have said in that they're not likely to work unless your body is already at least somewhat ready.

[MidwifeErika]

The only things that I am really doing to help labor come is taking EPO (orally.... which has been nice for my eczema as well!) and having some alone time with my DH.

I am not distrustful of herbs at all, however I don't feel it is the right thing for me to do, taking them when I am only 39 weeks along, KWIM? I don't want to rush my baby along if he or she needs a little more cooking time. These last few days are when they are doing their final preparations to come out too. That is why I stick with sex.... it certainly won't bring out a baby before they are ready. I guess I get some nipple stimulation in as well as my 2 year old still nurses, but that isn't enough to bring on anything if my body isn't open to it happening.

Black cohosh isn't just a regulator, but it also helps ready a cervix, so I can see why it would be used during a 60 hour labor. If a person is already having strong contractions, they don't need to make them stronger, they need the cervix to cooperate. Blue cohosh in the herbal form may be associated with heart issues for baby, I read a quick blurb about that in the natural pregnancy book by Ava Jill Romm, that it may have caused a heart attack in a baby. So, it is something I would use with care... like if I was trying to avoid pitocin, cytotec, or other medical induction techniques as they all have their pros and cons, but it isn't something I would take just because (at least not in this pg, I am less anxious this time). Now, the homeopathic form I don't believe has ever been associated with any medical risk.

I totally understand being ready and wanting to help your body along, but I really don't think that you have to do much of anything to help it. If you do too much, you might end up with lots of ctx that drive you nuts and go NO WHERE, which is even more frustrating. I totally understand being anxious though too. I have those herbs in my own herb kit, some castor oil in the medicine kit, a breastpump hanging out in my closet and it all crosses my mind at least once a day But, I am trying to take it day by day, so I think I can get through being pregnant today and we will think about helping my body along tomorrow, then tomorrow comes and I realize that I can make it through that day too. Also, it might not be at all that your body is incapable of going into labor on its own, but that even when it has been pushed, it still wasn't quite ready yet. My own mother had VERY long pregnancies and that is just the way it was for her, as frustrating as it was. Her body didn't fail because it didn't produce a baby on its EDD, her body succeeded at producing a healthy baby when it was time.

[mamamicky]

blue cohosh danger?

Here is the information on blue chohosh and birth defects. It is important to know the entire story. I am not aware of further studies.
Micky

Q: I recently read a small article in Fit Pregnancy magazine that
says blue cohosh can cause birth defects, according to a recent study
done at Lehman College of City University of New York. Have you heard
anything about this? It went on to say that a woman who took the herb
during labor gave birth to an infant who later developed heart
failure. I have encouraged women to take the cohoshes during early
labor and I myself took the herbs during labor and I would like to
know if this is a new finding.
-Angel

A: I have never heard about blue cohosh causing birth defects. It
seems unlikely since it's only given in the last weeks of pregnancy.
I do know a lot about the supposed newborn heart failure that was
attributed to blue cohosh--it was a single case study written up in
Pediatrics in either 1998 or 99. That was MY client, and there is
*no* proof, or even any evidence, that blue cohosh caused her baby's
heart problem. It's only an association--they couldn't figure out
what else might have caused this highly unusual problem, which almost
killed the baby, so they blamed it on the mom's use of blue cohosh
during weeks 37-38 of pregnancy. She took capsules (not a terribly
potent form of the herb) for about two weeks, then quit for several
days before going into labor. She had a precipitous labor and birth,
baby did well initially, then crashed quickly and severely at about
30 minutes of age or so. Neither the mom nor I believe the blue
cohosh had anything to do with it or we would be seeing *many* more
babies with heart failure, given how commonly the herb is used to
initiate labor. Thousands of women have used the cohoshes without any
known ill effect, but this one published case is scaring the
beejeebies out of everyone, even though it's purely speculative!
-G.B.
====

About 12 years ago a friend took lots of cohosh (I'm not sure if it
was black or blue) to abort an unwanted pregnancy and was
unsuccessful. Her baby was born with tetralogy of Fallot, a heart
condition incompatible with life, and had to have open heart surgery
at less than one year of age. She always wondered if it could be
attributed to the cohosh. Maybe it was the amount she took to abort
that was dangerous and small doses wouldn't hurt.
-H.K.
====

Medscape this week published an article that stated that "there are
no known pathologic conditions for which black cohosh is
contraindicated. Until recently, the herb was not recommended for use
during pregnancy or lactation; according to Newall et al,[1] black
cohosh binds to uterine estrogen receptors. However, more recent
studies clearly demonstrate that black cohosh does not bind to
estrogen receptors and therefore does not have an estrogenic
effect."[16]. Even if it were shown to cause fetal anomolies or
malformations, using this herb at term should not be a problem, as
the fetus is already fully developed. And it has been used by
midwives for years with no untoward effects.
To see this entire (very interesting) article go to:
http://womenshealth.medscape.com/22047.rhtml
-Chava Weiman

Alternative Medicine--Black Cohosh
Jeremy L. Pettit
[Clinician Reviews 10(4):117-118, 121, 2000. (c) 2000 Clinicians Publishing
Group and Williams & Wilkins]


Reprinted from Midwifery Today E-News (Vol 2 Issue 22 June 2, 2000)
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[Wolfcat]

I agree w/ mamamicky about the functions of black and blue cohosh.

And I think you would get really sick before you could take enough blue to actually bring on labor when your body is not ready. I take it because I want my body ready for the activity when the time comes. (It supports the function of the uterus.)

I'm taking a combination tea (whole herbs) of black cohosh, blue cohosh, raspberry leaf, squaw vine berries and rue. They are all meant to tone the uterus and act as a MILD stimulant for the muscles (encourages ctx, but won't actually bring them on unless you're in early pg and prone to miscarriage). I figure it's like taking a protein shake - it won't make you muscular unless you're also working out, but it helps.