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do you get a pap smear every 12 months? - Page 12

post #221 of 265
6/21/06 at 3:42pm
nevermind.
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post #222 of 265
6/21/06 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant
I think the idea that vaccinations are a "myth" is just ridiculous, but it's not something that is relevant to this thread so I'll not debate that point here (other than to say that I think those who don't vax are damn lucky most of us do, so their kids benefit from the herd immunity despite their unwillingness to vax them).
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant
I hope your kids are just as sanguine as you are about losing their family members to cancer, should God forbid you ever develop it and limit yourself to those "safer" tests and treatments.
I have had cancer, more than once. I did "limit" myself to the safer and more accurate ways of treatment, tyvm.
post #223 of 265
6/21/06 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucky One
Ah-ha!!! This test is performed *after the application of acetic acid*! I knew there must be some type of solution applied to the cervix--one that is supposed to highlight abnormal cells.

SO, how is this solution applied? And with what instrument? And is this solution sterile?

So, MITB, they are using an swab or instrument of sorts to touch your cervix when applying this solution. No?

I am sorry, but a static picture is NOT safer or more accurate than an actual sample of cervical cells.
No way is someone pickling my cervix for a picture.

Truly for me this is non-invasive as my body heals itself and since I have a family history of cancer, I consider it necessary. Like DavinaT said, it's like scraping the cells off your inner cheek to look at them under the microscope.

And BTW, I'm educated too. Mom is serious about NFL/AP, and had a good neighbor who is a homopathic nurse... Now, I'm off to find a dermo (Swede in the Sun is bad) for my skin check. Thanks for the reminder.
post #224 of 265
6/21/06 at 7:18pm
[QUOTE=eggplant]...I think the idea that vaccinations are a "myth" is just ridiculous, but it's not something that is relevant to this thread so I'll not debate that point here (other than to say that I think those who don't vax are damn lucky most of us do, so their kids benefit from the herd immunity despite their unwillingness to vax them). ..QUOTE]

Wow...that is just a really ignorant and insulting statement. I know this thread is not about vaccines, but do some reading before you throw that crap out on a thread. I couldn't care less whether or not you vax your kids.
post #225 of 265
6/21/06 at 10:37pm
MITB, I am asking again, could you please answer the questions I posed in post #191? I am not being snarky or whatever, but I really honestly want to know.
post #226 of 265
6/22/06 at 12:36am
[QUOTE=Dolphin]
Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant
...I think the idea that vaccinations are a "myth" is just ridiculous, but it's not something that is relevant to this thread so I'll not debate that point here (other than to say that I think those who don't vax are damn lucky most of us do, so their kids benefit from the herd immunity despite their unwillingness to vax them). ..QUOTE]

Wow...that is just a really ignorant and insulting statement. I know this thread is not about vaccines, but do some reading before you throw that crap out on a thread. I couldn't care less whether or not you vax your kids.
Yeah that.

(Again, I know this is OT, but I'd prefer if you didn't vax your kids, for my kids' sakes.)
post #227 of 265
6/22/06 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
No man would allow that to be done to their genitalia/reproductive organs.
Ummm, "turn your head and cough?!?!!" It's a cliche. And prostate exams are also the source of jaunty good humour, and I don't know any men who make such a fuss about their annual exams.

Until reading this thread I've never known of any women who avoid a pap smear, either. I've procrastinated or not had insurance, but I haven't not wanted one! I know mainstream and very natural-minded women, some who believe in things like homeopathy (I personally don't), and those who are medical-based all the way, and one thing they have in common is getting their pap smear because it saves lives! I've never found it undignified or upsetting or even uncomfortable, really.

As far as situations in one's biography that make it difficult:there was a book published in the 60s or 70s called How To Stay Out of the Gynecologist's Office and it detailed women's self-help groups and included directions for self-exams and self-pap tests. If you can find a cooperative midwife or doctor, you might be able to take the sample yourself and they can send it to their lab. While I respect the difficulties trauma can cause, there's no reason to allow such an experience ultimately to shorten your life.
post #228 of 265
6/22/06 at 5:22am

Posting from Ireland

Just a clarification - if I may. I DO understand that soem paretns do not get certain vaxes for their children or delay vaxes and they have researched this and feel it is very important in the case of immuno-supprssed, special needs or highly sensitive babies and really didn't to draw in the whole vax / no vax for children debate but just to point when I referred to the HPV vax, I was talking ME getting it and I'm a fully grown woman - at the ripe old age of 32 and my immue system is just fine.
post #229 of 265
6/22/06 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucky One
MITB, I am asking again, could you please answer the questions I posed in post #191? I am not being snarky or whatever, but I really honestly want to know.
My DH is a European Dr. I asked him if he would ever advocate the use of JUST the photography. His response was no, because that only shows you what is going on with the top layer of cells. You can't see what's going on 2-3 layers below the surface. He would use it in conjunction with the Pap, but not exclusively. He says the photos are good because they would show overall changes of the WHOLE cervix and not just where it was papped. But that would mean the cancer would have to surface first before treatment.

DH also says that after about Stage 3 or 4, treatments are horrible and there is no reason for any woman to have to go through that when there is such a test as the pap available.
post #230 of 265
6/22/06 at 11:52am
On the subject of vaccinations-as-related-to-HPV, if this vaccine works, and I could have been treated with it before beginning sexual activity, and I wouldn't have to fear the infections I now have with high-risk strains of HPV, I would have wanted it for sure!
post #231 of 265
6/22/06 at 12:47pm
Yes, I get them and I don't find them to be a big deal. My current provider is extremely gentle, and the whole process takes about a minute. It's not on my list of my favorite activites, but then again, there is no chocolate involved.

I'm wracking my 47 year old brain to think of all the women I've known over the course of my life who have been injured by having Pap smears. I know someone who died of Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease. I know someone who was hit by lightening (and lived). A friend was killed when they were stopped at a traffic light and a tree branch crashed through their windshield. But no, I can't think of a single person who has been injured by a Pap smear. I suppose if you dropped a really big speculum on your toe...
post #232 of 265
6/22/06 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom
Yes, I get them and I don't find them to be a big deal. My current provider is extremely gentle, and the whole process takes about a minute. It's not on my list of my favorite activites, but then again, there is no chocolate involved.

I'm wracking my 47 year old brain to think of all the women I've known over the course of my life who have been injured by having Pap smears. I know someone who died of Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease. I know someone who was hit by lightening (and lived). A friend was killed when they were stopped at a traffic light and a tree branch crashed through their windshield. But no, I can't think of a single person who has been injured by a Pap smear. I suppose if you dropped a really big speculum on your toe...
laughup
post #233 of 265
6/22/06 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom
I'm wracking my 47 year old brain to think of all the women I've known over the course of my life who have been injured by having Pap smears.
What about the women on the Pregnancy forums who report bleeding after their Paps, and some have miscarried? Is that not considered an injury?
post #234 of 265
6/22/06 at 2:06pm
Quote:

other than to say that I think those who don't vax are damn lucky most of us do, so their kids benefit from the herd immunity despite their unwillingness to vax them
Man, I told myself I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I can't just ignore this kind of misinformation. Herd immunity is a myth which even minimal research will show. And I would LOVE it if you didn't vax your kids and childhood illnesses again became childhood illnesses. So please don't vax for my sake

Here's an interesting discussion on this:

No vaccines = “free ride”
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=468193

Come learn more
post #235 of 265
6/22/06 at 2:29pm
Quote:
when I referred to the HPV vax, I was talking ME getting it and I'm a fully grown woman - at the ripe old age of 32
Don't know about Ireland, but in the US the HPV vax is being targetted at pre-teen girls. How long before they add it to the toddler vax'es? Don't laugh--they already give HepB at birth :
post #236 of 265
6/22/06 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizD
On the subject of vaccinations-as-related-to-HPV, if this vaccine works, and I could have been treated with it before beginning sexual activity, and I wouldn't have to fear the infections I now have with high-risk strains of HPV, I would have wanted it for sure!
But why not advocate for safe sex? If you can get HPV, then you can get Herpes, HIV, Syphilis, Chlamydia, etc.

vaccines have been proven to cause injury and death, and been proven that they do NOT work.
post #237 of 265
6/22/06 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
What about the women on the Pregnancy forums who report bleeding after their Paps, and some have miscarried? Is that not considered an injury?
Ok-if papping has incited significant bleeding, miscarriage, or an infection, that dr. probably shouldn't have a license.

In my search for scientific data on this correlation (Of which I've found NONE), I did find this persons outlook on her miscarriages which I found refreshing:
http://www.freshyarn.com/26/essays/miller_mylatest.htm
post #238 of 265
6/22/06 at 5:39pm
Some women bleed after Pap smears during pregnancy because the cervix is in a very different condition, caused by hormones, and more shedding is likely. It is perfectly normal and does *not* indicate "injury." It can also happen during intercourse, when contact with the cervix is also quite normal. As far as sexual activity goes, there is a *wide* range of normal that should be respected.

I wish I could have had that vaccine before beginning sexual activity. I would be grateful not to have it always hanging over my head that I have high-risk HPV that might not cause cancer in me, but *does* cause cancer. And I *have* practiced "safe sex," and advocate safe sex. Just like pregnancy, sometimes these things happen anyway, for a vast number of reasons. People do not deserve life-threatening diseases just because they have unsafe sex. Why not make sex safer in the first place? Syphillis is not the death sentence it once was. Herpes is manageable. Chlamydia and gonorrhea are treatable. Shouldn't we be pleased about this?

It has not been proven that vaccines do *not* work. I haven't vaccinated my children, but I sure got a tetanus shot when I cut my hand deeply in the mud. I mean, we have to accept real scientific evidence, even when we do not like it, or we do not like the risk. I think vaccines should be made to be safer, and consumers should demand this. But I don't dispute they work - and I've read all the books on not vaccinating, and checked their footnotes and sources. It is a cloudy issue. Becoming a zealot for either camp just blurs the truth further! I have not vaccinated my children because of the risk of injury. But I don't buy the "these diseases were already on the decline so vaccination had nothing to do with it" theory, either. There are excellent points on both sides, and doctors *must* address the broader public health concerns. Statistically, the injury and death rate is small enough to be acceptable. Of course none of us wants it to be our kid, so some of us choose to accept the other risk. I do believe I am relying on the herd immunity, and I don't feel good about that either. But that's another story. The idea of vaccinating children also has to do with access. From a public health perspective, this is the time when it is affordable or free, and mandatory vaccine laws help ensure that those who could not otherwise afford it will be sure to get it. The idea of vaccinating for HPV at a young age is to eliminate this disease entirely. And to know my daughter is safe from this disease? I would consider it more of a priority than the DPT shot.

So back to the OT, I appreciate this thread for reminding me to pester my midwife again and I have an appointment next week!
post #239 of 265
6/22/06 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
What about the women on the Pregnancy forums who report bleeding after their Paps, and some have miscarried? Is that not considered an injury?
Some women (including me) miscarry. It happens. The bleeding from a pap is from the surface capillaries, not from the uterus. Having seen how difficult it is to dilate the early-pregnancy cervix (I worked in an abortion clinic for eight years), I can promise you it ain't like a pap smear, and takes a little more than a cytobrush. One-third of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Yes, the chances are good that some of those women will have had a Pap recently. Know what? They probably also drove in a car, were exposed to sunlight, had sex and ate cheese. None of these things cause a miscarriage.

Temporal associations are not causal.
post #240 of 265
6/22/06 at 9:56pm
Rarely do I go to doctors for anything other than neccasary diagnosis and I don't choose thier methods of treatment...but I do get a Pap now every year....years back I skipped a year and when I went in I was Level 3 Dysplasia (one step before invasive cervical cancer) I ended up doing an herbal treatment which cured it, but while I was doing that I had a friend who was a mom of 5 die from cervical cancer less than 6 months after diagnosis. Cervical cancer is completely treatable if caught early. And the HPV virus which often causes it is rampant in women. I never had any symptoms of it, but I had it. After my experiences, I feel Paps are nessacary. Can you find a midwife you like to do a yearly womans check up and make it a day to love and nuture your health?
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