Reason #1001 to homeschool - Page 2

[Dar]

Originally Posted by Jen123

I

If you say "That dress is 15% off today !! " I have no idea how to figure it. At all. I've tried. I've been taught. It just doesn't stick. Or if you tell me "A generous tip is 20% of the bill"...I can't figure that.

You can always figure 10% by moving a the decimal point one to the left. So, 10% of 70would be 7.0, or 7. If you're just estimating, you can round to the nearest whole number, so 10% of 63 = 6.3, so you round to 6.

If you can find 10%, you can find estimate other percents. To find 20%, find 10% and double it. To find 15%, find 10%, take half of that (5%) and then add 10% and 5%. For something like 29%, find 10%, triple it, and then take a little less.

I got a handout from the summer school coordinator in our ditrict titled: "Para's - Welcome" last week. I wanted to cry...

dar

[manitoba_mommy]

Originally Posted by trini

teachers can learn and subsequently teach concepts

It is funny. That is almost exactly what I tell people who question my qualifications to teach certain subjects.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Jen123

I gotta be really transparent here....
I cannot figure percentages.

If you say " 30% of the people do xyz".... I get that. I know what percent means... "of 100". I get an image in my head of a circle with pie wedges.

If you say "That dress is 15% off today !! " I have no idea how to figure it. At all. I've tried. I've been taught. It just doesn't stick. Or if you tell me "A generous tip is 20% of the bill"...I can't figure that.

Which is why my dh ...who has a passion for all things numbers...teaches the children math.

I agree though...that a math teacher should understand the concept before teaching a child.

I was a cocktail waitress. I can do fifteen percent of anything. It's really easy.

All you have to remember is that all numbers can be broken down into chunks of 10%, 5%, and 1%.

Ten percent is the easiest. You move the decimal to the left.

For example: If your restaurant bill comes to $267.44, ten percent of that is what you get when you move Mr. Decimal: $26.744, or (more basically), $26.74.

Some more examples:

Ten percent of $358.33 = $35.833 (or $35.83)
Ten percent of $1,999,786.00 = $19,997,860.00

Once you have ten percent, it's really easy to find one percent. Just move the decimal over one more time to the left.

Ten percent of $358.33 = $35.833 (or $35.83)
One percent of $358.33 = $3.5833 (or $3.58)

Ten percent of $10.00 = $1.00
One percent of $10.00 = .10 cents

Once you have ten percent, it's also easy to find five percent. Just cut your 10% figure in half, because five is half of ten.

Ten percent of $562.24 = $56.224 (or $56.22)
Five percent of $56.22 = $28.11

Ten percent of $10.00 = $1.00
Five percent of $10.00 = .50 cents.

To get fifteen percent - Take ten percent. Cut it in half. Add it to the original ten percent.

Fifteen percent of $10.00 =
Ten percent ($1.00) plus five percent (.50 cents) equals $1.50.

To get other percents (like, let's say, seventeen percent)

Ten percent
PLUS
Five percent
PLUS
One percent
PLUS
One percent.

17% of $10.00 =
Ten percent ($1.00) plus
Five percent (.50 cents) plus
One percent (one cent) plus
One percent (one cent)
=$1.52

Hope that helps. It's much easier than they taught you in school.

[nancyw]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I was a cocktail waitress. I can do fifteen percent of anything. It's really easy.

All you have to remember is that all numbers can be broken down into chunks of 10%, 5%, and 1%.

Ten percent is the easiest. You move the decimal to the left.

For example: If your restaurant bill comes to $267.44, ten percent of that is what you get when you move Mr. Decimal: $26.744, or (more basically), $26.74.

Some more examples:

Ten percent of $358.33 = $35.833 (or $35.83)
Ten percent of $1,999,786.00 = $19,997,860.00

Once you have ten percent, it's really easy to find one percent. Just move the decimal over one more time to the left.

Ten percent of $358.33 = $35.833 (or $35.83)
One percent of $358.33 = $3.5833 (or $3.58)

Ten percent of $10.00 = $1.00
One percent of $10.00 = .10 cents

Once you have ten percent, it's also easy to find five percent. Just cut your 10% figure in half, because five is half of ten.

Ten percent of $562.24 = $56.224 (or $56.22)
Five percent of $56.22 = $28.11

Ten percent of $10.00 = $1.00
Five percent of $10.00 = .50 cents.

To get fifteen percent - Take ten percent. Cut it in half. Add it to the original ten percent.

Fifteen percent of $10.00 =
Ten percent ($1.00) plus five percent (.50 cents) equals $1.50.

To get other percents (like, let's say, seventeen percent)

Ten percent
PLUS
Five percent
PLUS
One percent
PLUS
One percent.

17% of $10.00 =
Ten percent ($1.00) plus
Five percent (.50 cents) plus
One percent (one cent) plus
One percent (one cent)
=$1.52

Hope that helps. It's much easier than they taught you in school.

That is SO cool.

[Jen123]

That is very cool . Thank you Dar and Charles. I gotta be honest though...all those numbers had my head spinning.

It does seem a lot easier than it did in school too. I'll work on it later with figures from the Walmart circular I got earlier today in the mail.


Sob story ahead:

I think I have a serious math complex because of the way I was treated in math class. All my math classes it was the same story. My earliest memory was third grade during a simple review. I was having trouble adding anything with the number 9 in it. Even simple equations... 9 + 6 = ? . Then it occured to me (remember I was eight years old) that if I add ten than take away one from the answer I was getting the same answer as the rest of the kids. It worked!
Until the teacher said "Jenni, what is 9+6 ?" And I said "Um....15 ! ".
"Very good Jenni...and how did you get that answer ?".

" I added 10+6 and got sixteen. SO since 10 is one more than 9 , I took one away from the answer to get 15. I have trouble adding nines."

"Jenni ! That's not the way to do it . You did it wrong."

"But I got the right answer."

"Yes it's the right answer , but you went about it the wrong way."

And so started a lengthy 'career' of doubting my answers and any 'special' way I made math easier for myself.

[Dar]

But that's such a wonderful way to do it! The easiest way, IMO. I think you're a closet math-genius, myself... playing with numbers like that is way people who truly "get" numbers do math. I'm sorry your teacher messed you up... she was probably someone who didn't truly get the way numbers worked, and so wasn't comfortable with the way you manipulated them.

You needed Miquon as a child, I think....

dar

[Altair]

everyone has weaknesses. elementary teachers are not experts in every field they teach, nor are they passionate about every field they teach. homeschooling parents are not all passionate about every subject their child might be interested in.

If I don't know something, it's a good learning experience for all of us to figure it out together. teachers and homeschoolers are learners too.

I don't think it's realistic to expect every teacher and every homeschooling parent to love to read. He or she might have a passion for something else. Teachers/parents are not clones and don't need to be.

As for teachers coming from the lowest ranks-- well, there are a lot of districts working hard to change that. Many districts (especially inner city) are developing programs to attract the brightest college students from ivy league and similar schools. There are a lot of progressive teachers working to change the stereotype and working to make teaching all about teaching children how to THINK.

please excuse the run-on sentence. it's 2 weeks until the end of the school year, i don't have the energy to fix it. :

(and i'll ignore the "weekends and summers off" comment b/c it's just so hilariously untrue)

[Kleine Hexe]

Originally Posted by Dar

You can always figure 10% by moving a the decimal point one to the left. So, 10% of 70would be 7.0, or 7. If you're just estimating, you can round to the nearest whole number, so 10% of 63 = 6.3, so you round to 6.

If you can find 10%, you can find estimate other percents. To find 20%, find 10% and double it. To find 15%, find 10%, take half of that (5%) and then add 10% and 5%. For something like 29%, find 10%, triple it, and then take a little less.
dar

That is exactly how I do it. I'm not brillant with numbers but it gets the job done enough for what I need.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Dar

But that's such a wonderful way to do it! The easiest way, IMO. I think you're a closet math-genius, myself... playing with numbers like that is way people who truly "get" numbers do math. I'm sorry your teacher messed you up... she was probably someone who didn't truly get the way numbers worked, and so wasn't comfortable with the way you manipulated them.

You needed Miquon as a child, I think....

dar

I would have LOVED Miquon, speaking for myself. I was soooooo pissed when I figured out how easy percents were that I couldn't believe it -- WHY did they waste our time with that x/100 times 43 or whatever it was? Like you can really do that when you're holding a full tray of tequila shooters.

[Kleine Hexe]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Like you can really do that when you're holding a full tray of tequila shooters.

Some of my best math comes after drinking a tray of tequila shooters.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by DuckyTate

Unfair to judge that book just plain sucks!:
I'll bet she enjoys reading other books.

True. It's written poorly enough that it's noticeable as you're reading. My son and husband both gave up on it early on because they can't abide poor writing. I, on the other hand, was able to ignore that in order to pursue the story, because the intrigue captured my interest. Lillian

[mahogny]

Originally Posted by Pinky Tuscadero

Anyway, my mom loaned her the book The DaVinci code. She said she couldn't get into it, that it was dull.
Suzy

Well, to tell you the truth, I thought The DaVinci Code was bad, too! (I'm not talking about the controversial subject matter making the book bad, but just the general writing style of the author being that of a 3rd grader made the book awful to read.)

Maybe she meant reading THAT BOOK was boring.

[Pinky Tuscadero]

Originally Posted by mahogny

Well, to tell you the truth, I thought The DaVinci Code was bad, too! (I'm not talking about the controversial subject matter making the book bad, but just the general writing style of the author being that of a 3rd grader made the book awful to read.)

Maybe she meant reading THAT BOOK was boring.

No, she clearly said reading in general. It was not a casual comment. It was several conversations.

[Pinky Tuscadero]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I was a cocktail waitress. I can do fifteen percent of anything. It's really easy.

All you have to remember is that all numbers can be broken down into chunks of 10%, 5%, and 1%.

ITA! I used to wait tables. At one restaurant I worked at you had to add up your own tickets and figure the tax and total before you gave it to each table. We only had one calculator. I quickly learned how to do it in my head so that I didn't have to wait in line for the calculator. Our state sales tax is 5%-it's easy!! No one else could do it in their heads. :
I think everyone should spend at least a summer waiting tables. You learn so many great skills!

Suzy

[lisac77]

Regarding the fact that most education majors are a little lacking in the smarts department -

I was an Earth Science major in college. It was a difficult and rigorous program steeped in research and technology studies. People that majored in the program had to take classes in things like Fluvial Geomorphology (the study of rivers and their physical functions - so freaking hard), Applied Geography (deep research class with five major papers), Geographic Information Systems (required knowledge of the UNIX operating system). We also had to take interdisciplinary courses in computer science, physics, and statistics.

Secondary education majors (middle school through high school) who wanted to do a concentration in Earth Science had to take 4 upper level classes. The classes in meteorology, cultural studies, classes like "The Geography of US and Canada" were absolutely glutted with education majors. And they were oh, so stupid. They asked dumb questions. They couldn't keep up with the material. They did piss poor research. Dumb. Really dumb.

I wept for the future students of America, I tell you.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by Pinky Tuscadero

No, she clearly said reading in general. It was not a casual comment. It was several conversations.

Well, I just have to wonder if maybe she has undiagnosed reading skill deficiencies. Article: Taking a Look at Vision Skills. - Lillian

[trini]

Originally Posted by lisac77

And they were oh, so stupid. They asked dumb questions. They couldn't keep up with the material. They did piss poor research. Dumb. Really dumb.

I wept for the future students of America, I tell you.

I was an education major with a 4.0 average. I was 5th in my class in high school. Yes, I've been in classes with the not-so-bright. I know the ones you are talking about. I could have gone into any profession I wanted. I chose to teach. We get so little respect. Even my own father asked, "Why do you have to go to college to teach kindergarten? You've already been to kindergarten. Don't you already know that stuff?" Obviously the man has never heard the word "pedagogy."

Keep in mind that teaching has a very high attrition rate within the first few years. The ones who went into it just "to get the summers off" are many of the ones who are leaving.

[lisac77]

Originally Posted by trini

I was an education major with a 4.0 average. I was 5th in my class in high school. Yes, I've been in classes with the not-so-bright. I know the ones you are talking about. I could have gone into any profession I wanted. I chose to teach. We get so little respect. Even my own father asked, "Why do you have to go to college to teach kindergarten? You've already been to kindergarten. Don't you already know that stuff?" Obviously the man has never heard the word "pedagogy."

Keep in mind that teaching has a very high attrition rate within the first few years. The ones who went into it just "to get the summers off" are many of the ones who are leaving.

My mother is a teacher. She recently completed her master's in teaching. I wasn't casting aspersions on all teachers, I promise! I know that some teachers are well educated and in turn are great educators (within the limits of the school/curriculum). The people I'm referring to shouldn't have been allowed within 10 miles of a classroom. Teaching is a calling - it's not something you can just phone in.

My mom has been teaching in a private school for the last six years. This year she decided to make the switch to the public schools. Nobody will hire her (well, she hasn't been hired yet) because she "lacks public school experience." Meanwhile the newly graduated chippies to whom I was referring in other post are getting hired right and left because they are a) cheap and b) they student taught for two semesters, which counts as "public school experience." :

[joandsarah77]

Hey thanks you guys for explaining percentages. Another percentage dummy here. My limp along system for figuring 20% was because I know 25% is 1/4 I would figure out the price to a quarter. So that $38 became 1/2 to $19 then half again to $9.50 so I knew $9.50 was 25% then I'de guess that 20% was a bit less maybe 8.90 or something as for 15% forget it! Figuring 10% then doubling is much easier!

[trini]

Originally Posted by lisac77

My mother is a teacher. She recently completed her master's in teaching. I wasn't casting aspersions on all teachers, I promise! I know that some teachers are well educated and in turn are great educators (within the limits of the school/curriculum). The people I'm referring to shouldn't have been allowed within 10 miles of a classroom. Teaching is a calling - it's not something you can just phone in.

My mom has been teaching in a private school for the last six years. This year she decided to make the switch to the public schools. Nobody will hire her (well, she hasn't been hired yet) because she "lacks public school experience." Meanwhile the newly graduated chippies to whom I was referring in other post are getting hired right and left because they are a) cheap and b) they student taught for two semesters, which counts as "public school experience." :

I agree with you 100%! (Used percentage to stay on topic here.)