Is it anti-UP to give rewards for something genuinely unpleasant?

[Pam_and_Abigail]

Ok, I try to practice Unconditional Parenting and not use bribes and rewards, but favouring intrinsic motivation instead.
Here's my dilemma: tomorrow, my "3 and three quarters" dd has to get 4 cavities filled and she has told us many times she does not want to go. When we're finished, I want to give her some kind of treat or pleasant experience, to balance it out, I guess. Is this any better than other rewards? Will it set up some kind of expectation of reward in any situation?

[rmzbm]

Personally, I don't think what you're describing is the same as rewards. You aren't going to buy her something "if she's good at the dentist's," right? It's just something nice to make her feel better regardless is what I hear you saying...and I think that's nice.

[BlissfullyLoving]

I think it depends on how you set this up. You could use a special treat as a bribe to get to the dentist without a fight. If you are rewarding her for behaving the way you wanted her to then, well, that is using rewards to get a desired behavior. What is your motivation?

I think if you do something special with her because she went through a difficult ordeal then you are just being a good parent. Would you not give her special attention if it was another situation where she had fear and pain?

If you decide to give her something physical then I think to make it not a reward you should give it to her before her procedure. Are you giving her something to commemorate the day? Do you want to give her something good for going through something stressful? I would be worried about how I presented it, so it did not seem like a bribe. I am sure when you give it to her you can word it in a way that clearly shows your motivation.

I hope that makes sense and helps

[UnschoolnMa]

I don't think this is a bribe or reward really, it's just something to look forward to and who doesn't love that after something dreadful right?

[delicious]

i would go for it. i have no problem doing something nice to make something not so nice a little easier. what rzmbzm said about it not being conditional on her being "good," or whatever.

[Plummeting]

We did the exact same thing when my DD had dental work done. She had wanted this toy vacuum her cousin had, so I bought it for her. I gave it to her afterwards, because if I had given it to her before, it wouldn't have helped take her mind off of it after. I just told her, "Honey, I am so sorry that we had to do this, but now your teeth are fixed and it's all over. Mommy got this for you so that now you have something happy to think about." I don't know if that's the "perfect" explanation, but it felt right to me. I didn't bribe her with it beforehand (I didn't even tell her about it before) and I didn't tie it into her behavior afterwards. I told her exactly why I gave it to her - to help her feel better.

[mamaduck]

I offer pleasant experiences/treats for after rough experiences as "something to look foward to." Just don't tie it to any specific desired behavior.

[QDB]

Each and every time my ds goes to the dentist (and he has had to go A LOT) he gets to go pick out a small toy at the toy store.

The dentist is stressful for us ALL and it is nice to have that outing to look forward to and then to have something new for us both to play with all afternoon.

It is a good thing to keep his mind off the work. In fact the last time we went to the toy store first - his decision!

[maya44]

Since there is no choice about going to the dentist and having this done, its not a reward or a bribe. It's doing something nice for someone who is going through a tough time.

[Quinn'sMommy]

Here’s the perspective of someone who is; A. totally into Unconditional Parenting and B. a former Dental Assistant.

I think parents need to be very careful how we frame dental work to our kids. With today’s technology dental work isn’t inherently painful or scary, and it’s very important to get it done. I can’t tell you how many adult are terrified to go to the dentist, many without ever having an actual bad experience to justify their fear.

In my experience I found two kinds of parents. The cool, calm parents who acted like going to the dentist were the easiest thing in the world. There attitude was “go on sweetie, have fun, and if you need me I’ll be right here.” The other kind of parent was hovering over us while we worked telling the child “don’t be afraid” and “It won’t hurt.” While looking anxious and terrified themselves, and trying every bribe they can think of. Do I need to tell you which kid was happy and relaxed while we drilled on their teeth and which one screamed their poor little heads off every time we even touched them?

I believe Kohn makes the point the rewarding for “work” sends the message that work is no fun and the only reason to do it is for a reward. I think this principle applies nicely to Dentist and Doctors too. Because honestly going to the dentist really isn't all that bad and some kids even think it's fun.

All that being said, four fillings is a lot for a three and three quarter’s child to endure. I would hate to see a life time fear develop from that experience; if the fillings absolutely can’t be divided into two appointments then just do your best to calm the child’s fears and remain calm yourself. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a special treat for getting four fillings (that really is a lot at one time for such a small child) again it’s in the framing. As long as you’re not feeding fear, and it’s not a reward for good behavior, instead it's just something nice we're gonna do after we're done here then I’m sure it’s fine.

Rachel

[DevaMajka]

Yeah, I'd think that if its phrased as, "the dentist will be ok, it might hurt, but after its done your teeth will feel better than they do now, etc. And afterwards, we'll go do something fun (regardless of how you act)" that's ok.
As opposed to "The dentist will suck, but if you're good, we'll go do something fun afterwards.

I kinda get the idea that the op is in the former camp. I'd do it, but I wouldn't see it as a reward. *I* like to go out and get an iced cappacino when I do something less than fun (but then, any reason for an iced cappacino is a good one, imo. lol)

[nextcommercial]

Oh, gosh! I would buy that child anything! Poor kiddo, how scary.

Take her to Jump n play. Or the waterpark.

[**guest**]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

Oh, gosh! I would buy that child anything! Poor kiddo, how scary.

Take her to Jump n play. Or the waterpark.

but why is it scary? it is tedious. it is boring. it requires patience. it is uncomfortable to have one's mouth open for a long time. it intrudes into one's personal space. i agree that having something fun afterwards is a good idea. this is what i would do.

i think we should be careful about not imposing out own attitudes /fears. yes, 25 years ago, in the former USSR, dental work was painful. nowadays, it is not.

[QDB]

This may be OT but...

I think it can absolutely be scary for the child.

I agree with not putting your fears into your child - i totally think that is a valid point....

But, I also think it important to validate fears and and feelings of pain, discomfort, annoyance etc.

I don't want him to feel those feelings are insignificant or wrong or to feel those alone - that is the main reason we chose a dentist who encourages parents to be with their child.

Sorry again to be OT but this issue is very near and dear to our family.

[Quinn'sMommy]

Originally Posted by QDB

This may be OT but...

I think it can absolutely be scary for the child.

I agree with not putting your fears into your child - i totally think that is a valid point....

But, I also think it important to validate fears and and feelings of pain, discomfort, annoyance etc.

I don't want him to feel those feelings are insignificant or wrong or to feel those alone - that is the main reason we chose a dentist who encourages parents to be with their child.

Sorry again to be OT but this issue is very near and dear to our family.

I don’t disagree with you at all. If a parent was pushing a fearful child to getting work done and the poor child was terrified I’d have a big problem with that. (I certainly wouldn’t recommend a fearful child getting more then one filling at a time.) I do feel that it’s important that the dental office be respectful and gentle with children and every attempt be made to make that child happy and comfortable. However, in my experience as a dental assistant I rarely saw a fearful child that didn’t also have a fearful parent. Telling a child something “won’t hurt” is giving them the idea that it may in fact hurt. Telling them not to be "afraid” can give them the idea that’s its sometime scary. I believe a child’s own fears should be validated, but our fears should not be projected onto them. Yes, in the past, and still in some places a visit to the dentist warranted real fear, but if your dentist is like that you should get a new one ‘cause times have changed and if a child doesn’t know the dentist is scary they probably won’t think so.

[loraxc]

Well, but even if it is painless, some children have a fear of having their bodily space invaded by a stranger. My DD is very outgoing, but she has a very pronounced need for personal space, and she hates to be lie down and be examined by a doctor. And the situation is unfamiliar and full of possibly intimidating-looking things. We haven't been to the dentist yet (she doesn't have all her teeth yet) but I anticipate that she will be anxious...and I personally have zero fear of the dentist (unless you count my fear of getting of the bill!)

To answer the original question--I have wondered this same thing. I personally think it's okay. As an adult, I do occasionally reward myself in some way after something unpleasant but necessary, and it may even help me get through the unpleasant thing. I don't see why my child shouldn't also have that comfort available to her! I would never make it an "IF you're good at the dentist..." thing, but I don't sense you would either.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Quinn'sMommy

With today’s technology dental work isn’t inherently painful or scary, and it’s very important to get it done.

You're presuming to know a lot about children you've never met when you make blanket statements like that. For any child with a fear of loud noises, dental work is inherently scary. My DD was never afraid of the dentist before she had to have her cavities filled. She's afraid of all loud noises, so how in the world would it not be scary for her to have someone drill inside her mouth???? The fear she experienced when having her dental work done had nothing to do with attitudes I was projecting on her. I wasn't afraid for her to have dental work done, and I wasn't afraid she would be afraid, because I thought she would be fine. We had talked about what would happen and she had always been perfectly cooperative with the dentist. She had always been happy to see a dentist - she'd been to 5 dental appointments before. But she was terrified when that loud drill was put into her mouth.

You may think that your experience as a dental assistant gives you insight into what was going on in all those parents' heads, but I doubt it does. It may have appeared to you that the parents projected fear onto their children, but how would you know whether it was the child's fear that made the parents nervous? I wasn't afraid when we walked back into the room to have DD's dental work done, but you can bet I was a wreck once I saw how upset she was. When you're busy assisting the dentist, how can you tell who was upset first, or why?

And if you're one of those people who insist parents should leave their children alone with you, as opposed to "hovering over" (your words) you while you do the work, I imagine you have prejudged all parents who refuse to leave their children alone with strangers. I don't leave my child with strangers. Period. I didn't stay with her because I was fearful. I stayed with her because I don't leave my child alone with strangers.

To clarify: I was originally very nervous when I found out she needed dental work done, because the dentist we saw was a crappy ped dentist. However, I saw 4 more dentists and traveled over 800 miles to find one that made me feel comfortable. So, while I wouldn't say I wasn't nervous for DD, I was comfortable, and I certainly wasn't afraid. I don't have a fear of the dentist myself, so I wouldn't project that to my child, and, as I said, the one I finally chose for her made me feel pretty comfortable.

[Pam_and_Abigail]

Wow, this thread took off while we were away.
I am torn about the problem of validating fearful feelings without projecting my own. Which is why I wanted dh to be the one to go in with dd, and without even letting this be known, she chose him. I know she would have snesed my dentistry fear, but Dh is really good with her in a medical setting. Good about being calm and letting her ask questions. If she's acting scared, he will engage her and invite her to ask a question about any piece of equipment. She told me this morning when I asked how she was feeling about the appt that she was scared it would hurt her teeth. In the end, it did not, and she reported that it only tickled and she felt like she was flying.
I didn't make the toy a bribe. I simply said that after the appt we could go somewhere and she could pick out something special. I suggested a used clothing store, but she frowned and said she didn't need any more clothes. That was a proud mama moment! Dh suggested a department store for a new mug, so that's what she got (it's actually a shot glass in the shape of a beer mug, nice and sturdy with a handle) and we also found a pen with her name on it. Of course, she got injured in the store, so her morning wasn't great overall...
Oh, and the dentist? Well we were 5 mins late, and then for some reason it took another 20 mins to get in. Then it took most of the rest of the appt to try and get dd to sit in the chair in the right place. It didn't occurr to me till later that maybe she could sit on dh's lap. I was running around with dd2 most of the time. Then with about 8 minutes left to the appt, dh started to make to leave because she wasn't cooperating, and at that moment she decided to do it. So we only had time to do one cavity. The thing that sucks is because we have no insurance, we had to pay $54 for the gas. You have to buy the first chunk in a 30 mintue increment, and we only used it for 5 or 10 minutes, and we still have three cavities left. And the appt we made today isn't for 2 more months.
Anyway, I think it went well, overall. Except next time we go, the other issue is mercury. The dentist says he most likely won't be able to fill her back inner cavs with the non-mercury due to moisture, unless she's very cooperative. Anyway, that's more for the dental forum than GD...

Thanks all!

[PikkuMyy]

The children I babysit always sit on their parent's laps at that age. I think it's the best idea.

[Pam_and_Abigail]

And apparently, Dh said something about that when he was there, to dd, that maybe she could sit on his lap and they said nothing. I think next time, we'll try a little harder to get that.