Which is easier? - Page 3

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

That was my first one...baby wasn't crowning, but I was fully dilated, and going into transition labour when they put me on the operating table. I guess they just couldn't hear the "no - I don't want a c-section" over the machine that goes "ping"...
I also didn't have a previous vaginal birth, so I wasn't "proved" as a childbirthing mom. I wonder why "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to pelvises and cervixes?

Indeed! My pelvis was innocent!

I also yelled for a vaginal birth, citing that both my mother and my uncle were born vaginal breech (first and second babies). At first they just all said "no" and after a while just ignored me and started shaving and hooking me up to IVs. I found out later that vaginal breech "isn't done" there and they actually had the power to just rush me into the OR even if I didn't eventually consent. Not in my right mind, and all. Especially since I didn't know I was in labour until the doctor told me he was crowning.

[Karah R]

I've had one c-section and two vaginal births, and hands down the vaginal births were easier recoveries-I wouldn't even use the word recovery to describe the days after my vaginal births, even though I did tear and did have hemhorrhoids. My c-section caused excruciating pain for weeks-no pain meds was not an option for me, and I'm a tough cookie who has a strong pain tolerance. In total agreement that it's not natural to be cut open like that-and that being cut open like that does cause considerable pain, and it wasn't stuff that I could just block out or work my way through. Believe me, if I could have I would have.

I didn't have so much as a tylenol after my girls were born-I was a little sore down south but really felt good overall.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Ah - I've never had any kind of spinal catheter, and I'd kill anybody who tried to give me one. I have to put up with the anesthetic during the surgery (which is just one reason I hate having my babies through surgery), but there's no way in hell I'm letting muck with my spine further just so I can stand up without pain. To me, pain isn't that big a deal, compared to having stuff stuck in my spine (I actually considered telling the OB that if he was going to coerce me into a section, he was going to have to do without the evil anesthetic, just so he couldn't pretend he wasn't hurting me.)

I have had Duramorph (I believe - something morphine related). It was given to me last time without the anesthestist telling me he was administering it, which made me furious as I'd already told the doctor I didn't want it. I'm not exactly allergic to it, but it does make me itch...and I'd rather have somebody come into my room every half hour and cut me than have to put up with the itching. As my dh says, I can deal with pain - but not so much with discomfort (the sweat from sitting under a window in the sun was worse than the incision pain, which was bad enough).

I'm confused. How can you have had Duramorph without having had a spinal or epidural? DH does anesthesia, and according to him, the ONLY way Duramorph is admininstered is through either a spinal or epidural.

You can get straight morphine through several other routes (pill form, shot form, IV, PCA pump, etc), but NOT Duramorph specifically. As for the itching, that's one of those things that happens but I honestly didn't even think about it til you reminded me. I took Benadryl for itching both times and that was the end of the itching. I had it IV the first time, but that made me *really* sleepy, so I asked for pills the next time. It just wasn't a big deal to me...another example of how different women are in how we look at various aspects of how we gave birth.

Anyhow, the addition of Duramorph to a spinal is a matter of putting the meds in through the catheter prior to removing it (with a spinal, the catheter is placed, the meds are administered, and then the catheter is removed BEFORE surgery ever begins). It's nothing more than an additional dose of something, it's not like they have to poke you twice or leave the catheter in to dose it.

What kind of anesthetic DID you have if you didn't have any type of spinal catheter? An epidural and spinal go in the EXACT same place, the spinal actually goes INTO the spinal space, whereas the epidural does not, however the spinal provides much better and faster numbness in comparison to an epi. Also, the fact that the spinal does not involve leaving the catheter in place like with an epidural means less chance of infection, although the risk is still obviously not zero.

Did you have a general anesthetic? Surely not....That's a heck of a lot riskier compared to either spinal or epi, ESPECIALLY in a pregnant woman. Typically general anesthetic is reserved ONLY for the most dire emergencies or when the spinal or epi doesn't work as the risks go up exponentially for mom with the use of a general anesthetic. It's one thing if there is no other choice, but I've honestly never heard of a woman having a section under general BY CHOICE since it IS much riskier.

And the only other option I can think of would be a local, and while I have heard it is theoretically POSSIBLE to do a crash section under local anesthetic only, the doc would have to be one barbaric person to even attempt such a thing unless the baby was DYING and no other option was available.

So, color me confused, but what kind of anesthetic DID you have if you have never had a spinal catheter placed?

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Does everybody in the US get Percocet? I've seen that on here many times, but nobody I know has ever had it post-op.

All the moms I know either got Percocet or Roxicet, depending on where they delivered and who their doc was. The typical discharge script is for 15-20 pills. Lots of vaginal delivery moms also came home with Tylenol 3's in addition to the narcotic. Many of the vaginal delivery moms took only a few of either, unless there was extensive tearing. Unfortunately in both places I delivered at (teaching military hospitals), tearing was a pretty common event.

For the first 24-36 hours with dd and ds2, I had Voltaren and some Tylenol. After that, I took a few Tylenol, but that was it...but not because it didn't hurt. I just don't think really effective pain management is a good idea, honestly.

I had to look up Voltaren since neither DH nor I had ever heard of it. Here's what I found:

Voltaren and Cataflam are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

While some docs here will give a woman NSAIDs after a section, it's not common IME. The reasoning behind it is it increases your risk of bleeding, obviously a concern after a c-section.

My last OB was ok with me getting one of the NSAIDs by IV, can't remember which one to save my life at the moment, but I wasn't super comfortable with that idea. Once the first 48 hours or so have passed after surgery with no indication of bleeding problems, NSAIDs aren't as big of a deal, but in those first two days...just not something I felt good about.

[littleteapot]

VOLTAREN! That's it. I've been trying to remember the name of that drug for months now. That's what they gave me after my c/s, but they wouldn't let me take it home though. At home after 72 hours I was only able to have T3's/Codiene.

It worked well but I was pretty stoned. :

[Storm Bride]

wifeandmom: Sorry for the confusion. My last two sections were done under spinal anesthetic. When I said I hadn't had a catheter, I meant I hadn't had one for post-operative pain relief. It was removed in the OR, as soon as the surgery was completed.

Voltaren is routinely administered to all post c-section women at the local hospital. When I had dd, it was administered by suppository, and I didn't even know I had it until about 12 hours after the surgery - they put the first one in while I was still numb from the spinal. I didn't know until I had ds2 that it was anything but a painkiller, but all the nurses at the hospital love the stuff, and absolutely swear by it.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

wifeandmom: Sorry for the confusion. My last two sections were done under spinal anesthetic. When I said I hadn't had a catheter, I meant I hadn't had one for post-operative pain relief. It was removed in the OR, as soon as the surgery was completed.

Oh, well, in that case, I never had a catheter for POST-operative pain relief either. The way spinals work according to DH is they give you a local to numb the area, then they put the catheter into your spinal space. Once it's in place, they administer all meds right then (including the Duramorph unless allergies preclude doing so), then the remove the catheter before ever lying you back down for the actual surgery. The catheter doesn't stay in place at all like it does with an epidural.

The Duramorph is on board before they ever cut you open. It is a long acting morphine that provides pain relief for up to 24 hours in most c-section patients. It allows mom to avoid the dreaded PCA morphine pump, which IMO would be a huge PITA to push that button every 5-10 minutes for 24 hours.

I'm not sure what the reasoning would be for leaving the catheter in place while surgery was taking place though, as a spinal is a 'one-shot' deal, unlike the epi that can be dosed up if necessary.

Voltaren is routinely administered to all post c-section women at the local hospital. When I had dd, it was administered by suppository, and I didn't even know I had it until about 12 hours after the surgery - they put the first one in while I was still numb from the spinal. I didn't know until I had ds2 that it was anything but a painkiller, but all the nurses at the hospital love the stuff, and absolutely swear by it.

It's interesting how different places do things, and the thought occurred to me that perhaps this particular drug isn't a very powerful NSAID, thus the bleeding risk wouldn't be as high as with some of the others available.

It makes complete sense that an NSAID would be a good choice for pain relief because of its anti-inflammatory properties, and as long as they aren't seeing increased post-op bleeding in their patients, I can see why they'd use it. I still cannot remember for the life of me what my last OB was willing to give me that I refused, mostly on DH's recommendation, again based on the increased risk of bleeding.

[egoldber]

Around here, the C-section post-op pain relief (for those who did not have GA), is Duramorph for the first 24 hours (assuming no allergies), followed by percocet alternating with 600 mg ibuprofen until discharge, and then the mom is sent home with a scrip for about 5 days worth of Percocet and told to continue OTC ibuprofen as needed.

If you have had a C-section under GA, you get a PCA with morphine for the first 24 hours and then the percocet/ibuprofen combo as described above. My second cesarean was under GA and I actually got better pain relief with the percocet/ibuprofen combo than I did with the PCA.

But in terms of the OP, I think your mental attitude plays a huge role. My first cesarean was non-emergency and basically due to my lack of education and OB's lack of caring. : I had a fine recovery, but had no desire to elect to have an ERCS. My second cesarean was a true emergency with a uterine rupture, after a full day of hard labor and 2 days of prodromal labor with virtually no sleep during that time. By all accounts I should have been a wreck physically and a recipe for infection after that second section.

But I was so preoccupied with the state of my second DD's health, getting myself to the NICU and spending as much time with her as possible before she died, that the fact that I had a cesarean really meant nothing to me. And my physical recovery continued to be super quick, much better than with my first section with no real labor. And planning my upcoming section in the fall brings me no angst at all. There is some small part of me that is a little sad that I will never have a vaginal delivery but after my life experiences, that fact is so far down on my list of things that bother me, its not a real concern. But I understand that this is true for *me* because of what I have personally been through. So it is difficult to compare delivery experiences without taking into account all the life history that comes with it.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

OhI'm not sure what the reasoning would be for leaving the catheter in place while surgery was taking place though, as a spinal is a 'one-shot' deal, unlike the epi that can be dosed up if necessary.

It probably wasn't left in place. I don't know much about spinals, because even thinking about them makes me queasy. It must have been taken out when he got me to lie back down again. I wouldn't really know, since I couldn't feel anything from my breasts down. That was definitely when he gave me the freaking duramorph...I was pissed when I realized I'd been given that crap again. They all do things differently, though - the anesthetist for my second section asked me about the duramorph, and I said, "yes" becasue I didn't know it would make me itch. The other guy didn't even tell me he was administering it. (He also gave me a damned oxygen mask, so I hate him on general principles. I'd never had one before, and thought they didn't use them at that hospital. I guess adding a huge dollop of claustrophobia doesn't really matter, though...I was already paralyzed with fear. I actually wonder if they do that on purpose - if I'm terrified enough, I just let myself be pushed around, because my brain goes on vacation.)

It's interesting how different places do things, and the thought occurred to me that perhaps this particular drug isn't a very powerful NSAID, thus the bleeding risk wouldn't be as high as with some of the others available.

It makes complete sense that an NSAID would be a good choice for pain relief because of its anti-inflammatory properties, and as long as they aren't seeing increased post-op bleeding in their patients, I can see why they'd use it. I still cannot remember for the life of me what my last OB was willing to give me that I refused, mostly on DH's recommendation, again based on the increased risk of bleeding.

I had no idea there was any increased bleeding risk with NSAIDs. The nurses on the ward talk about it the way some moms talk about epidurals.

[annakiss]

Wow, so wifeandmom, you took Percocet, Gas X, colace, and benadryl? That's a whole lotta drugs.

I took some regular ibuprofen for afterpains after both of my homebirths and used a peri-bottle to pee. I was a little sore, but fine.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by annakiss

Wow, so wifeandmom, you took Percocet, Gas X, colace, and benadryl? That's a whole lotta drugs.

I took some regular ibuprofen for afterpains after both of my homebirths and used a peri-bottle to pee. I was a little sore, but fine.

After my csection I took tylenol & dulcolax. I didn't need a peri bottle. My sister delivered vaginally & could not get up without wincing for weeks. I peed with no pain as soon as my catheter was removed.

Each situation is so different, we are never going to come to a consensus on whose birth was "better." Sure mine was not the birth I wanted, but it was SO easy for ME to get through, & it seems that no one who has birthed naturally or especially at home can really believe that...

[annakiss]

Originally Posted by joesmom

After my csection I took tylenol & dulcolax. I didn't need a peri bottle. My sister delivered vaginally & could not get up without wincing for weeks. I peed with no pain as soon as my catheter was removed.

Each situation is so different, we are never going to come to a consensus on whose birth was "better." Sure mine was not the birth I wanted, but it was SO easy for ME to get through, & it seems that no one who has birthed naturally or especially at home can really believe that...

I'm not trying to say that my birth was "better". I don't intend to deny anyone their experience. I was simply astounded by the amount of drugs she took to feel okay. Sounds like she felt fine.

I do think, however, that women are meant to birth vaginally and how easy or difficult the recoveries of a bunch of women on the internet were would not affect my decision to give birth naturally if at all possible (not saying that I wouldn't undergo a c/s if medically indicated). My decision is for my own health and well being as well as that of my babies.

[joesmom]

I didn't mean you were saying that- but the whole thread is about "which is easier..."

I agree with you that women are meant to birth vaginally- an internet forum would not change my decisions either- but it is interesting to read of other women's experiences.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by joesmom

Sure mine was not the birth I wanted, but it was SO easy for ME to get through, & it seems that no one who has birthed naturally or especially at home can really believe that...

Well...I believe it, because I can't see why you'd lie about it. But, it does boggle my mind, and I've never birthed naturally.

I don't know why I even read these threads. Now I just feel like a wimp again, and I've always pretty good at dealing with pain. I don't know how someone can have their abdomen sliced open and be "pain free" - I just don't get it. I've never heard anybody say they cut themselves with a knife and it didn't hurt or they got cut with a piece of glass and it didn't hurt...how can surgery not hurt?

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by annakiss

Wow, so wifeandmom, you took Percocet, Gas X, colace, and benadryl? That's a whole lotta drugs.

I took some regular ibuprofen for afterpains after both of my homebirths and used a peri-bottle to pee. I was a little sore, but fine.

Don't forget the Duramorph in my spinal and the Ibuprofen after I was done with the Percocet.

Pain meds after major abdominal surgery is shocking to you? That's an interesting way to look at it.

And from what I've seen of the moms who tore during vaginal delivery, or heck, even the ones who DIDN'T tear, taking a Colace a day til BM's are well established again would be a good idea for them as well. At least I wasn't sitting on the toilet crying while I tried to poop for hours. Colace is a STOOL SOFTENER. I fail to see what the big deal is with taking a stool softener.

Two Benadryl for itching post-op and some Gas X to prevent gas...maybe I didn't *need* the Gas X, but I didn't wait around to find out if horrid gas pains, which are common post-c/s, were going to have me doubled over in pain. I was a farting fool, but I sure wasn't hurting when I needed to be taking care of my newborns, getting the hang of breastfeeding, etc.

I fail to see how playing the martyr by taking no pain meds, ESPECIALLY after a surgical delivery, is going to help anyone. It's a pro/con type situation, as most things in life are. What good am I to my brand new babies if I'm doubled over in pain, not able to walk across the room for weeks? I simply didn't have that as an option to be honest. My husband went back to work (not by choice, hello military) when my twins were 4 days old and when my singleton (with 13 month old twins to care for as well) was ONE day old. Refusing pain meds would have been a very stupid approach IMO, as I had children to care for without the luxury of having a whole lot of help while I did so.

Of course, I'm also one to take pretty much any Class B drug during pg, esp after the first 10 weeks when all organ systems and such are already developed. I've even been known to take a Class C drug during one of my pg after weighing the pros and cons of doing so vs. NOT taking it. I know some women won't even touch a Tylenol during pg, and that's certainly their perogative, I just don't see the point of it.

[the_lissa]

I started having regular, pain-free bms a couple hours after birth, and I was certainly never sitting on the toilet in tears.

[annakiss]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

Don't forget the Duramorph in my spinal and the Ibuprofen after I was done with the Percocet.

Pain meds after major abdominal surgery is shocking to you? That's an interesting way to look at it.

I just never thought about it really. No need to martyr oneself at all.

And, : to the_lissa. Pooping after birth can be sensative, but if you eat properly, no need to take a bunch of meds.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I don't know why I even read these threads. Now I just feel like a wimp again, and I've always pretty good at dealing with pain. I don't know how someone can have their abdomen sliced open and be "pain free" - I just don't get it. I've never heard anybody say they cut themselves with a knife and it didn't hurt or they got cut with a piece of glass and it didn't hurt...how can surgery not hurt?

PLEASE don't feel like a wimp!! If you were in pain, you were in pain! There is nothing wrong with that. They DID cut you open, and that typically DOES hurt. Refusing to take adequate post-op pain meds is only going to compound the problem, and really, there is no point in doing so.

Will the narcotics make your baby sleepy? Probably at least a little bit. But my experience has been that even babies born to moms with NO pain meds whatsoever and NO pain meds while BF were still at least a LITTLE sleepy in the first few days after being born. Birth is a big deal for a baby, and it's NORMAL for them to be sleepy after delivery. It's something to keep an eye on, not suffer horrific pain over, or at least that's how I looked at it.

You have a big job to do after having a baby. Establishing an on-going BF relationship was critical in my mind, and I cannot imagine trying to do so if I was in horrible pain. And, if you MUST have a c/s, it makes a whole lot more sense to ME to take the pain meds for a few days so you can focus your efforts on more important things...like falling in love with that new baby and making milk for him or her.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by annakiss

I just never thought about it really. No need to martyr oneself at all.

And, : to the_lissa. Pooping after birth can be sensative, but if you eat properly, no need to take a bunch of meds.

Hmmm...

There are A LOT of women on this very board that need to be educated in this matter then. I've read a thread on the very subject in the last week or so IIRC that talked all about the horrors of pooping after a significant tear during vaginal delivery.

If you are torn into your rectum, I fail to see how 'eating properly' is going to change the fact that you've got stitches in your rectum.

Even the women on that particular thread that DIDN'T have significant tearing spoke of how awful it was to poop for quite some time. I couldn't help but wonder why they weren't told to take something to PREVENT such problems in the first place, esp the ones who had significant damage down there.

Perhaps some education is called for if all it takes is proper eating though. Who'd have thought that was all that it took to make pooping around a huge tear that's been stitched up was all it took.

[shelbean91]

Of course you're going to have pain meds during and after surgery. I think that's the point. After most vag births, there are much less meds needed than after most csec births. Of course, there are exceptions, but on the whole, a vag birth would be easier to recover from physically- regardless of how easy you recover from surgical birth.

As I posted earlier, my recovery from my csection went relatively well. But, my vag births were much easier. If you've had both, you probably agree with me, but maybe not. if you haven't had both, you are only able to imagine what recovery from the other is like, for the most part.