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Which is easier? - Page 4

post #61 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa
I started having regular, pain-free bms a couple hours after birth, and I was certainly never sitting on the toilet in tears.
And I had two pain free c-section recoveries. Your point?

Obviously we were both not 'typical' in that most c-section moms have at least SOME pain at SOME point during recovery and most moms who have delivered vaginally remember very well (and not for a GOOD reason either) their first attempts at pooping after delivery.
post #62 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelbean91

As I posted earlier, my recovery from my csection went relatively well. But, my vag births were much easier. If you've had both, you probably agree with me, but maybe not. if you haven't had both, you are only able to imagine what recovery from the other is like, for the most part.
I've never thought of it like that, but you are probably right. Had I delivered vaginally, I would not have hesitated to take whatever pain meds were necessary to deal with the pain, both during labor and after the baby was born.

I will say I have no warm squishy feelings over the thought of dealing with the aftermath of significant tearing, and of course, you have no way of knowing if you'll be the unlucky one. Reading women's stories of painful sex for MONTHS after delivery...well, I'll admit it runs through my mind to be VERY thankful that was never a possibility with c-sections.
post #63 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeandmom
Hmmm...

There are A LOT of women on this very board that need to be educated in this matter then. I've read a thread on the very subject in the last week or so IIRC that talked all about the horrors of pooping after a significant tear during vaginal delivery.

If you are torn into your rectum, I fail to see how 'eating properly' is going to change the fact that you've got stitches in your rectum.

Even the women on that particular thread that DIDN'T have significant tearing spoke of how awful it was to poop for quite some time. I couldn't help but wonder why they weren't told to take something to PREVENT such problems in the first place, esp the ones who had significant damage down there.

Perhaps some education is called for if all it takes is proper eating though. Who'd have thought that was all that it took to make pooping around a huge tear that's been stitched up was all it took.
I didn't think we were talking about people who had tears. Women who birth naturally and instinctively will most likely not have 4th degree tears. That is something that you are likely to NEVER see in a homebirth. 4th degree tears into the rectum are almost ALWAYS the result of episiotomies.
post #64 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by annakiss
I didn't think we were talking about people who had tears. Women who birth naturally and instinctively will most likely not have 4th degree tears. That is something that you are likely to NEVER see in a homebirth. 4th degree tears into the rectum are almost ALWAYS the result of episiotomies.
I didn't specifically say either way, and from what I've read, it doesn't really matter if you tear or not...pooping afterwards isn't going to be pleasant.

The only moms I know IRL who had 3rd or 4th degree tearing did so *without* having had an episiotomy first, but forceps due to extreme fetal distress (as in the baby's in question were blue and floppy at birth) were a common factor in most of the cases.

Oh, and my neighbor who has homebirthed all six of her kids has had anywhere from no tearing at all to a full 4th degree tear with two of her births. She's just one mother of course, but honestly people around here don't typically homebirth at all, so my real life example pool consists of her and her alone.
post #65 of 141
I didn't say pooping after childbirth was FUN, but it didn't involve crying on the toilet. Just patience. And certainly, eating lots of fiber and drinking LOTS of water helps.
post #66 of 141
I birthed at home and had a small peculiar tear that was not stitched. I never had a problem pooping. Didn't even feel uncomfortable.

-Angela
post #67 of 141
For me, the *thought* of pooping after birth was WAY worse than *actually* pooping after birth.
post #68 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeandmom
PLEASE don't feel like a wimp!! If you were in pain, you were in pain! There is nothing wrong with that. They DID cut you open, and that typically DOES hurt. Refusing to take adequate post-op pain meds is only going to compound the problem, and really, there is no point in doing so.
If I have another baby, and actually need a c-section (I wonder what a necessary c-section is like...probably a very different emotional state, but probably not any better...I don't know), I won't have any pain medication. If I'd been able to feel the pain better in my first 24 hours, I probably wouldn't have twisted a staple last time - I probably would have healed up properly - I probably wouldn't have spent the next two months coping with an infected incision.

Quote:
You have a big job to do after having a baby. Establishing an on-going BF relationship was critical in my mind, and I cannot imagine trying to do so if I was in horrible pain. And, if you MUST have a c/s, it makes a whole lot more sense to ME to take the pain meds for a few days so you can focus your efforts on more important things...like falling in love with that new baby and making milk for him or her.
I've breastfed all three kids. Pain is pain - it sucks. But, pain in my incision didn't mean I couldn't bf. I can't imagine trying to stand at a stove and sterilize bottles and mix formula post-c/s, so I guess a lot of it is perspective. I basically psyched myself, and refused to admit that formula even existed...if I didn't breastfeed, my babies would starve. Once I had myself in that mindset, the pain wasn't terribly relevant.

I don't find that Tylenol and ibuprofen really touch the c/s pain. The duramorph did, but I'd rather be in ten times the pain than have to cope with the itching. I'm not a martyr - I just think there are worse things than pain. Anyway, for me, the worst thing about the c/s pain is that I can't cry...and after a section, I really, really need to cry.
post #69 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeandmom
Will the narcotics make your baby sleepy? Probably at least a little bit. But my experience has been that even babies born to moms with NO pain meds whatsoever and NO pain meds while BF were still at least a LITTLE sleepy in the first few days after being born. Birth is a big deal for a baby, and it's NORMAL for them to be sleepy after delivery. It's something to keep an eye on, not suffer horrific pain over, or at least that's how I looked at it.
My baby was not sleepy. Seems like most homebirthed babies are a lot more awake than hospital babies.

-Angela
post #70 of 141
I've never taken stool softeners. But, last time, having learned, I ate a bunch of grapes, peaches & plums after my surgery. I had no problems. I'd never been at the point of crying on the toilet, but I certainly found it something to dread in the initial weeks after my first two surgeries.
post #71 of 141
I wish my c-section experience was as easy as wifeandmom says hers was.

My first child was a c-section and my second was a drug-free vaginal birth.

The vaginal birth was a lot easier to recover from and a lot less painful overall.

While the contractions are a lot stronger than any pain I had from the c-section, the c-section pain lasted a much longer time.

The afternoon after dd was born, probably 20 hours later, I walked to the bathroom for the first time. I felt like all my organs were going to spill out onto the floor. It was horrid. I took the pain medication they gave me but by 3 hours after I felt like I needed more but had to wait another hour before I could get more vicodin.
Moving around was not easy for weeks. Getting up and down, positioning the nursing pillow, and rolling over in bed were hard for many weeks as well. Getting up at night to feed dd was hard because I didn't know how to side lie at first.

Months and years later I had pain around the incision area that I assume were adhesions.

ds was a home vbac. I was in labor about 26 hours with the last 4ish being the intense part. The burning of pushing hurt but only while he was crowning. That soreness quickly wore off. I was tender for a while but could walk around, sit and do everything else without fear. It burned when I peed almost 2 weeks but that was very temporary and I was able to handle it well. Nothing compared to the recovery from surgery.

I also think a big part of why I recovered so well is that at home I could sleep whenever I wanted and wasn't constantly being messed with like in the hospital when they came in every 2 hours to take vitals.

I'd definitely take another homebirth over c-section.
post #72 of 141
Quote:

The afternoon after dd was born, probably 20 hours later, I walked to the bathroom for the first time. I felt like all my organs were going to spill out onto the floor. It was horrid. I took the pain medication they gave me but by 3 hours after I felt like I needed more but had to wait another hour before I could get more vicodin.
Moving around was not easy for weeks. Getting up and down, positioning the nursing pillow, and rolling over in bed were hard for many weeks as well. Getting up at night to feed dd was hard because I didn't know how to side lie at first.
THIS is what I fully expected going into my first section. Even my second one, I figured I had only gotten lucky the first time around. Now with a third upon me in a few months, I am *hoping* to have it as easy as I did both times before, but fully realize there are no guarantees.

The side lying comment reminded me that there was no way I could do that. I propped up on several pillows instead. When I would roll on my side, all that massive amount of skin would shift towards the bed and pull on my incision. Didn't try that one again. I think it didn't help that I had stretched out so much to accomodate nearly 14 pounds of babies in there, so we're talking A LOT of hanging skin there in the beginning. Ack.



Quote:
I also think a big part of why I recovered so well is that at home I could sleep whenever I wanted and wasn't constantly being messed with like in the hospital when they came in every 2 hours to take vitals.
EXACTLY why I was SO SO SO glad they discharged us 24 hours after my section. I freaked a bit at first at the thought of taking two brand new babies home that I was still trying to get the hang of nursing, but the reality was, we rested SO much better at home vs. in the hospital.

I knew that DH was fully capable of knowing if something was wrong with me, and I felt pretty confident in my ability to tell if something wasn't right with either of the babies, so it really worked out well.

With my second, I stayed 48 hours (GBS+ with ruptured membranes prior to section), and boy was I cussing by the end of that second night. It never failed that as soon as I had him nursed, changed, and settled, in would come somebody to do something that of course they thought was vitally important right.that.very.second. Argh. Very frustrating to say the least.

I am hoping to do another 24 hour stay with this section, as it was just a much better overall experience being able to get more rest at home that second night.
post #73 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
If I have another baby, and actually need a c-section (I wonder what a necessary c-section is like...probably a very different emotional state, but probably not any better...I don't know), I won't have any pain medication. If I'd been able to feel the pain better in my first 24 hours, I probably wouldn't have twisted a staple last time - I probably would have healed up properly - I probably wouldn't have spent the next two months coping with an infected incision.
Obviously you have to decide what you feel is best for you overall, and you know yourself better than anyone else. I would point out that there are several other options besides staples though. The thought of staples really freaked me out for some silly reason, so I specifically asked for something...anything...else.

The first time I was sewn up til the last layer then had steri-strips. I thought those worked well. But then with my second they sewed me up til the last layer and then used this glue stuff for the last layer. Now THAT was nice and it's what I'll ask for this time too. My incision looks better now than it did after my first section...not that you can actually SEE it without lifting the belly fat...but that's not the point.



Quote:
I've breastfed all three kids. Pain is pain - it sucks. But, pain in my incision didn't mean I couldn't bf. I can't imagine trying to stand at a stove and sterilize bottles and mix formula post-c/s, so I guess a lot of it is perspective. I basically psyched myself, and refused to admit that formula even existed...if I didn't breastfeed, my babies would starve. Once I had myself in that mindset, the pain wasn't terribly relevant.
This was my attitude as well. Come hell or high water, my babies were GOING to nurse. I can only imagine that signifcant pain would make it harder to nurse, if for no other reason than having a baby lying across your belly that is throbbing must be terribly difficult. I know they say that's what the football hold is for, and after a few weeks, I had that down pat, but at first, it was much easier for me to get them to latch on correctly in the typical baby in mom's arms across her middle type position.

I guess my point is that for anyone reading this who might one day find herself dealing with post-op c-section pain and trying to nurse, I'd much rather she take something to ease the pain so nursing wouldn't be so hard, kwim? I knew a girl a few years ago that gave up nursing her first baby because of this very reason, and I always found it incredibly sad that their BF relationship was ruined by pain when it could have been avoided or dealt with.

Quote:
I don't find that Tylenol and ibuprofen really touch the c/s pain. The duramorph did, but I'd rather be in ten times the pain than have to cope with the itching. I'm not a martyr - I just think there are worse things than pain. Anyway, for me, the worst thing about the c/s pain is that I can't cry...and after a section, I really, really need to cry.
Benadryl is your friend! Literally one dose will stop the itching and it's unlikely that you'd need more. It's not a matter of itch/no pain OR no itch/pain. You really CAN have both, and from everything L&D nurses have ever told me, if you can avoid significant pain in those first 24-48 hours, your overall recovery will almost always be much, much, much easier.

Aside from the fact that I just don't care to be in agony if it can be avoided, I truly feel like it's important to take care of YOUR body as well as possible so you can give 100% to your baby. If I'd been doubled over unable to care for my twins at 4 days post-op, I truly do not know what we would have done. DH didn't have a choice but to return to work and the closest family we had was over 600 miles away.
post #74 of 141
Well, considering that I was home 4 hours after my natural birth center birth and I was up putting a load of laudry in 2 hours after my homebirth, I would have to go with a NATURAL vaginal. I don't think the same necessarily applies to heavily mangaged vaginal births (drugs, forcepts, vacuum, episiotomy etc...)
I always tell my childbirth students that pain in labor is normal, pain for 6 weeks after giving birth IS NOT NORMAL. It will interefere with bonding and breastfeeding and I can't imagine anyone choosing that.
I'll leave you with a question I often ask of c-section proponents:
Would you ever choose to get your kidney removed on the same day you bring home your adopted child??? LOL
post #75 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntengwall
I'll leave you with a question I often ask of c-section proponents:
Would you ever choose to get your kidney removed on the same day you bring home your adopted child??? LOL
What on earth does my kidney have to do with anything?

Your 'anaolgy' has a serious flaw to it.

When you give birth, you either do it vaginally or by c-section. No other way to get the kid out that I'm aware of.

So if you're going to compare having a kidney taken out to having the kid by section, what is the comparison for vaginal delivery?

Maybe...'Would you rather have your kidney taken out OR would you rather pass an 8 pound piece of poop?' That might work...but just leaving it at having the kidney removed totally ignores the fact that delivering vaginally isn't a walk in the park either.
post #76 of 141
My point was--who would choose to have major surgery (with all it's risks) when they have a newborn to care for. Obviously this comment was meant for elective c-sections for no medical reason.
post #77 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntengwall
My point was--who would choose to have major surgery (with all it's risks) when they have a newborn to care for. Obviously this comment was meant for elective c-sections for no medical reason.
Ah, it just seems to me that your analogy doesn't work so well because the other side of having a kidney removed is NOT having a kidney removed. And the other side of a c-section is most certainly NOT doing nothing.
post #78 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeandmom
Benadryl is your friend! Literally one dose will stop the itching and it's unlikely that you'd need more. It's not a matter of itch/no pain OR no itch/pain. You really CAN have both, and from everything L&D nurses have ever told me, if you can avoid significant pain in those first 24-48 hours, your overall recovery will almost always be much, much, much easier.
Off topic, sort of, but Benedryl is an antihistamine....antihistamines dry up body fluids....breast milk is a body fluid. I found this out the hard way when I was rushed to the ER for a mold allergy and given one dose of Benedryl via IV. DS1 was only 4 months old.
post #79 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by wifeandmom
Obviously you have to decide what you feel is best for you overall, and you know yourself better than anyone else. I would point out that there are several other options besides staples though. The thought of staples really freaked me out for some silly reason, so I specifically asked for something...anything...else.

The first time I was sewn up til the last layer then had steri-strips. I thought those worked well. But then with my second they sewed me up til the last layer and then used this glue stuff for the last layer. Now THAT was nice and it's what I'll ask for this time too. My incision looks better now than it did after my first section...not that you can actually SEE it without lifting the belly fat...but that's not the point.
Staples don't really bother me. I'd rather have staples, if that's what the surgeon's used to, than be sewn up by someone who isn't used to doing it. My point is that the drugs they gave me masked signals from my body. Those signals were trying to tell me something, and I couldn't hear it.

I've heard conflicting reports about the glue. Some people love it, but someone hear had a really bad allergic reaction to it, and someone else had it just...fail on part of her incision. Yuck.

Quote:
This was my attitude as well. Come hell or high water, my babies were GOING to nurse. I can only imagine that signifcant pain would make it harder to nurse, if for no other reason than having a baby lying across your belly that is throbbing must be terribly difficult. I know they say that's what the football hold is for, and after a few weeks, I had that down pat, but at first, it was much easier for me to get them to latch on correctly in the typical baby in mom's arms across her middle type position.
I found the football hold absolutely impossible. I never even tried it with dd or ds2, because it just plain didn't work for me. Side-lying was awful, as well. The only one that worked was holding the baby on my belly, which is what everyone thinks would be terrible.

Quote:
Benadryl is your friend! Literally one dose will stop the itching and it's unlikely that you'd need more. It's not a matter of itch/no pain OR no itch/pain. You really CAN have both, and from everything L&D nurses have ever told me, if you can avoid significant pain in those first 24-48 hours, your overall recovery will almost always be much, much, much easier.
Doesn't Benadryl dry up breastmilk? I've been warned off that kind of drug more than once as a breastfeeding mom. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to take a chance like that with dd, as I was having a lot of trouble getting my supply established, anyway. Pain relief just isn't that big an issue for me. I don't want the surgery in the first place...how much it hurts isn't really the point...the damage is the point.

Quote:
Aside from the fact that I just don't care to be in agony if it can be avoided, I truly feel like it's important to take care of YOUR body as well as possible so you can give 100% to your baby. If I'd been doubled over unable to care for my twins at 4 days post-op, I truly do not know what we would have done. DH didn't have a choice but to return to work and the closest family we had was over 600 miles away.
If I were doubled over, I'd just do my best. I got stuck on my couch at 6 days post-op, unable to get up. Fortunately, I had him in my lap to nurse, so it was a diaper change, not a feeding, that was delayed. It had nothing to do with pain, though. I simply couldn't stand up. We were stuck there for almost 30 minutes. Pain wasn't relevant. What was relevant was that I'd had surgery, and could not stand up. I can't give 100% post-op, because I'm not 100%...and it's not about pain. I don't see pain management as taking care of my body. Taking care of my body is about healing the damage that's been done - not about masking it under drugs, so that I do more than I should.

I hate pain medication...absolutely hate it. You're talking to someone who gets dental caries filled without freezing, because I'd far rather be in pain than have my mouth frozen. The drugs suck worse than the pain does.
post #80 of 141
"Maybe...'Would you rather have your kidney taken out OR would you rather pass an 8 pound piece of poop?' That might work...but just leaving it at having the kidney removed totally ignores the fact that delivering vaginally isn't a walk in the park either."

I'm not saying that delivering vaginally isn't hard work--although my birth center birth and my homebirth were almost pain-free except for transition (and I had a 10 lb 4 oz baby!). My point is that afterwards (unless you have had unusual tearing) you feel great. I was barely even sore after my 10 lber. Very different from having a 6 inch long incision and major abdominal surgery.
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