Which is easier? - Page 5

[liam's mom]

I've had both, and while the vaginal delivery was hardly easy, it was light years better than the recovery from my c-section.

[myjulybabes]

I've had 2 c-sections, neither planned, and a medicalized VBAC in between. Mentally, the VBAC was awesome. Loved it. If by some miracle I have another child, I'll be pushing for a VBA2C. (no pun intended )

But physically? My second section was easiest. I was up and walking short distances (like to the bathroom) in just a few hours, and longer distances and up and down stairs in less than a week. I only took the pain pills for about a week. Could have been less I'm sure if it had been a scheduled deal, but the little bugger had decided to turn transverse after 17 hours of labor, and with my pre-e, noone was really willing to wait and see if he'd turn back.

Now I'm sure a natural vaginal birth with little or no tearing would be easier still, but my VBAC didn't go that way. I can't say for sure if it was strictly necessary, but they were in a big hurry to get dd out (and she did take quite a bit of time to get breathing and pink up, so who knows), so I pushed her out in less than 10 min, no time for her bowling ball of a head to mold, so I ended up with a huge episiotomy. That sucker hurt alllllll the time for weeks. At least with my sections, I could help the pain by sitting or lying down. But there was no comfortable positions at all with a billion stitches in my yoni.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by PerennialMom

Off topic, sort of, but Benedryl is an antihistamine....antihistamines dry up body fluids....breast milk is a body fluid. I found this out the hard way when I was rushed to the ER for a mold allergy and given one dose of Benedryl via IV. DS1 was only 4 months old.

This is true, and must be kept in mind as a con to taking something for the itching. Just as the Duramorph is a long acting narcotic that will pass through your breastmilk and the narcotics I took after the Duramorph wore off, it's a matter of deciding if the risk is worth the benefit. Phenergran (sp?) is also an anti-histamine that has the side effect of relieving nausea, so that is another commonly used drug that moms should be aware of the possible consequences when taking it.

Considering I had enough milk to feed the entire neighborhood both times, that one dose of Benadryl within hours of my sections simply didn't faze my over-abundant supply.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

Considering I had enough milk to feed the entire neighborhood both times, that one dose of Benadryl within hours of my sections simply didn't faze my over-abundant supply.

I might have been okay with it with ds2, then. With dd, when the itching was actually even worse, I'd have been furious if someone had suggested Benadryl, but without a warning about my milk. It took days for any kind of supply to come in as it was. DD's the only one of my children who ever got formula with my knowledge and consent...the poor little thing was starving, no matter how often I put her to the breast, nothing was being produced.

I honestly think that if a doctor ever again tries to tell me about the "benefits" of having a section without labour, I'll smack him/her. I suppose it could be a coincidence that dd is the only one of my babies to have had breathing problems and nursing problems, but I really don'tt hink so.

[doctorjen]

For the itching related to narcotics like Duramorph (although all narcotics can cause it in folks who are susceptible) Benadryl is a possible choice, but it does cause pretty significant sedation in a lot of folks, as well as possibly affect milk supply (which is more of a problem after the mature milk comes in than before.)
Another option is Nubain, a narcotic agonist/antagonist which usually takes the itching away without as much sedation. This is what our anesthesiologists use.

I agree that you can't really make a prediction that will hold true for every person. I attend a lot of births, though, and in general, the vaginal birth moms are a lot more comfortable post birth. It is absolutely not routine for the vaginal birth moms I attend to need a narcotic after birth. Nor do I routinely see any problem with pooping after birth. I routinely leave an order for ibuprofen, and many of the second and higher times moms take it for cramping. A lot of the first time moms I attend don't take anything at all. I am not stingy with pain meds, though. If someone is hurting, I want to make them better if at all possible - it's just that I don't really see women having that much pain after a normal vaginal birth. We also are very good about non-medical pain relief at my hospital, for delivered moms, and they can do things like soak in a whirlpool bath, use a traditional sitz bath, have a heating pad, a nurse to rub their back, etc, and many moms use at least one non-medical method of pain relief, too. Almost never do I have someone go home on a narcotic, and only sometimes on the ibuprofen.

To give you an idea what sorts of births I attend, in my practice, of moms who birth vaginally, I attend about 30% moms who have an epidural, about 50% that have an IV narcotic once during labor, and about 20% who have a pain-med free birth. I do not routinely do episiotomies (my rate hovers at around 2%, or generally about 1 mom out of 50, only for real fetal distress and a true need to shorten labor) I have about a 3-5% vacuum assisted delivery rate, and about 40% of first time moms and much less repeat moms with some stitches for tearing. I have yet to see a spontaneous 4th degree tear in about 200 births since I started practicing. I have had a few partial 3rd degree tears, usually associated with persistend posterior babes and prolonged pushing. Most women who I attend birth their babies either squatting, in hands and knees, or side-lying, with some on their backs, and I don't do any pushing coaching other than things like "Oh, look we can see the hair!"

Most of the cesarean birth moms I take care of have either duramorph post-spinal, or an epidural catheter in place for the first 24 hours. They are up and moving within a few hours after birth, and we get everyone up to shower the next day. 24 hours after birth, the epidural, foley catheter, IV, etc are all removed and most moms take oral narcotic combinations (like Vicodin) pretty routinely. Most go home with about 30-40 Tylenol #3 or Vicodin and I usually see moms taking them for the first 1-2 weeks. Most cesarean moms in the hospital are needing help to get up for the first 2-3 days. The more they move in the first day or so, the less trouble we see with gas pains which can be as bad as the surgery pain it seems.

So, who knows what someone's individual experience will be like, but in general that's what I see.

My own 4 vaginal births were fairly easy recoveries. My first I had an (unnecessary) episiotomy and had pain the first few weeks because of that, but not enough that I even took oral pain meds. The other 3, I felt wonderful post birth, and with all 4 I honestly remember the first few days after birth to be the best I have ever felt - from the endorphin high, no doubt! All 4 of mine were unmedicated, spontaneous labors and births (the second an accidental UC after a very short active labor.) After 4 babies, I also have no lasting problems like incontinence, pain, numbness, problems with sex, etc, except for some stretch marks!

[Storm Bride]

Blech. Duramorph, for the pain (which is a side effect of surgery), then more drugs for the duramorph, which can either muck up my milk or sedate me (which I hate). And, my doctors wonder why I hate having c-sections. I think part of the problem is that there's this attitude that if something is hidden by medication, it doesn't exist..."you're not in pain - you have duramorph". I don't see it that way.

I want to have another baby, but it sucks to know that if my doctors have their way, I won't be able to look after it.

doctorjen - I wish you worked around here!

[littleteapot]

I was given morphine in an IV just after my section, but not for long. The itching was TERRIBLE. It's the second time I've had morphine and both times I itched from head to toe uncontrollably.
then when I was sent home they put latex tape on my incision, even though I'd probably told them 12 times in two days I'm allergic, it's on my chart, I asked about the tape specifically, etc... I literally cried the itching was so bad and they kept saying, "It's normal for your scar to itch". I finally went to a doctor to said it was okay to take it off (they'd originally told me 12-14 days) and instantly the itching was relieved. :

[Emilie]

[. Birth itself was simply a way to get a baby out of me alive. How that happened truly didn't matter, I just wanted LIVE babies.

:

Are you insenuating(sp?) that ceserean birth is more likely to produce LIVE babies than vaginal birth?:

[Emilie]

[QUOTE=wifeandmom]Hmmm...

There are A LOT of women on this very board that need to be educated in this matter then. I've read a thread on the very subject in the last week or so IIRC that talked all about the horrors of pooping after a significant tear during vaginal delivery.

i take offense to this. where did you read this thread? were these women birthing naturally at home with no drugs? were they given routine episiotomies? were they standing up???
where did you read this?

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Emilie

[. Birth itself was simply a way to get a baby out of me alive. How that happened truly didn't matter, I just wanted LIVE babies.

:

Are you insenuating(sp?) that ceserean birth is more likely to produce LIVE babies than vaginal birth?:

In *some* cases, c-sections *absolutely* are more likely to produce LIVE babies. Heck, in *some* cases, a section is the ONLY reason that baby comes out alive.

Are you suggesting otherwise? :

[wifeandmom]

[QUOTE=Emilie]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

Hmmm...

There are A LOT of women on this very board that need to be educated in this matter then. I've read a thread on the very subject in the last week or so IIRC that talked all about the horrors of pooping after a significant tear during vaginal delivery.

i take offense to this. where did you read this thread? were these women birthing naturally at home with no drugs? were they given routine episiotomies? were they standing up???
where did you read this?

I read it here on mothering. Talk of having problems/pain/fear from pooping after delivery. I did not quiz these women as to how they delivered their babies, did not participate in the threads at all actually. Just happened to see it and read some of the replies.

If you are truly that interested, click on 'Search' and have at it. Try a few terms and see what comes up.

I find it interesting that you are so 'offended' by something that really isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. It happens sometimes that women have pain with bowel movements after giving birth. That's really not even that hard of a concept to grasp IMO.

It makes sense that pushing poop out of your rectum that is very close to your vagina that might just be a tiny bit sore itself would cause some pain at first.

Or is it taboo to mention that your vagina might be a tad bit sore after pushing out a baby as well? :

[Emilie]

no-

but your use of that fact to promote elective ceserean on a natural family forum is. You can fear monger elsewhere if you please- but i do not think that MDC is the place for it.

I also find your comment about being able to have sex sooner a perk to a c/s a bit baffling.

In some cases. Yes. You are right cesareans save lives. Can you explain to me why the hospital rate for c/s is so high then versus a hb rate?

[GooeyRN]

I wanted to add I had a vaginal birth, in a hospital. Labor was excruciating. I can't describe how bad it was. I had pitocin. (I don't feel it was needed, but thats another story, and its my fault for not pushing the issue. I know better for next time now.) But.... Delivery itself was simple! I pushed for less than 10 minutes. I had a tiny tear (I needed about 3 stitches) and I did push while on my back and in stirrups. I was hardly sore at all afterwards. It felt like I had some rough sex. (sorry if TMI! ) I pooped about 8 hours after having my dd and it did not hurt at all. I refused the Percocet and Motrin offered afterwards. I didn't use the Tucks or Ice packs, either. I didn't need anything! I was up and walking around feeling as good as gold right after delivery. You would never know I *just* had a baby. BUT..... My dd was only 5 lb 13 oz with a small head. (I forget the circumference, but it was smaller than "average") Labor may have been really bad, but I liked how I did not require any time at all to recover. I would rather terribly suffer the 24 hours than moderatly suffer for several weeks (going by what others said) afterwards from a section.

[Emilie]

i had augmented labor with ds1 and going from 1-3 cm was in a hospital was so much worse than all labor & delivery with dd at home.

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by wifeandmom

In *some* cases, c-sections *absolutely* are more likely to produce LIVE babies. Heck, in *some* cases, a section is the ONLY reason that baby comes out alive.

Are you suggesting otherwise? :

I think it's quite clear what she's suggesting is that the idea that c-sections produce more live births is a crock, which it is.
It's like saying that a hysterectomy, in *some* cases, is the ONLY reason a mother survives childbirth. Does this mean it should be done all the time? Hell no. Does it mean it should be done frequently? NO!!! It's a surgery, and just like any others it has it's reasons...

[Emilie]

thanks L.T.

I think that by saying it- that she wanted LIVE babies was to suggest that dwlivering vaginally was not safe- and that imo is EXTREMELY harmful to women and our society.

[illinoismommy]

I've only had a vaginal birth, but since I had a 4th degree tear recovery was awful. My c-sectioned friend looked a lot better than me during recovery.

[littleteapot]

Originally Posted by Emilie

thanks L.T.

I think that by saying it- that she wanted LIVE babies was to suggest that dwlivering vaginally was not safe- and that imo is EXTREMELY harmful to women and our society.

ITA.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by Emilie

thanks L.T.

I think that by saying it- that she wanted LIVE babies was to suggest that dwlivering vaginally was not safe- and that imo is EXTREMELY harmful to women and our society.

I *did* want two LIVE babies. And in *my* particular situation, the statistically safest way to go about arriving at two LIVE babies was a c-section.

Please do not assume I am implying in any way that ALL women fit into the very narrow set of circumstances that I faced when pg the first time, because I simply have never said any such thing.

[wifeandmom]

Originally Posted by littleteapot

I think it's quite clear what she's suggesting is that the idea that c-sections produce more live births is a crock, which it is.
It's like saying that a hysterectomy, in *some* cases, is the ONLY reason a mother survives childbirth. Does this mean it should be done all the time? Hell no. Does it mean it should be done frequently? NO!!! It's a surgery, and just like any others it has it's reasons...

You are certainly free to read into my posts whatever you wish. It does not make your assumptions correct.

In *my* particular situation, a c-section was statistically safer than the alternative options. Please point out where I said (you know, actually SAID something, not where you are ASSUMING your leap in conclusions is logical and correct) that c-sections produce more live babies than vaginal delivery.

I've actually never seen any such study in the first place, one that compares first time elective c-section babies to first time vaginal delivery babies. Does such a study even exist in the first place? And how do you really study something like that?

If a baby is alive after an elective section, there's obviously no way to determine if they would have survived a vaginal delivery or not. If a baby is alive after a vaginal delivery, would that baby have survived an elective section? And if a baby gets in obvious trouble during an attempted vaginal delivery, would that count as a 'dead' baby for the vaginal delivery side even if baby arrives safely by emergency section? Or would that count as a live section baby? See the problems with studying this??