I Don't Understand GD... - Page 2

[DevaMajka]

Plus, spanking (and punishment in general) teaches a kid to be concerned about the effect of his actions on himself. Not about the *real* reasons to behave in a socially acceptable manner- the effects of his actions on others.
Spanking a kid for hitting the dog only teaches him that if he doesn't want to be spanked, he should not hit the dog (in front of parents).
I've had wonderful luck teaching ds to not hit the dogs because they don't like to be hit.

A poster here in the gd forum, Brigianna, said something like- Do you want to teach dc that there are consequences for doing xyz, or do you want to teach them to not do it?
I love that, and I think its a great phrase to point out the difference between punishing and teaching.

[maya44]

My question to you (the OP) is what is what do you think an occassional spanking accomplishes that GD does not.

Beating a child might cause them to never repeat a behavior again (out of fear of future torture) .

But if you are correct (and I disagree, but that's not the point here) that an occasional spanking does not hurt physically or emotionally than what DO you see it accomplishing that GD does not?

Children who are spanked DO repeat "bad" behaviors.

I GD in a "tough" rules oriented way. Although it is not the goal of everyone here, my dd's are very very well behaved. Spanking is simply and utterly not necessary to accomplish this.

So again I ask what do you think it accomplishes that GD does not?

[MissRubyandKen]

Not sure if the OP is even around anymore, but I'll bite!

Well, IMO you should flip the question around and ask yourself, 'What is RIGHT about an occaisonal spanking?'. Is there truly some message or lesson you could impart on a child by hitting them that could not be acheived in another way? Bring a little bit of forethought and creativity to your ideal of parenting. Every situation you encounter as a parent can assuredly be dealt with without hitting. It just isn't neccessary. Challenge yourself to think of theoretical situations where you might consider spanking and get creative. Think up several different non-violent ways to react to the same situation.

Maybe you are one of those people who think hitting is ok in safety situations? A baby or toddler should NOT be made responsible for their own safety. If you hit a child so they will not touch a hot stove or walk into the road you are effectively making them responsible for their own safety. You are the one who is responsible to keep them safe by baby/toddler proofing, keeping the child close, picking the child up and moving their body away from life threatening circumstances, and staying away from potentially dangerous situations in as much as you can. Trust the child will mature into his surroundings given explanations and information. When the child is mature enough he WILL be quite able to keep himself safe with your remembered guidings and common sense. Until such time the parent is responsible for the child's safety.

I have learnt alot here. STICK AROUND, YOU WILL TOO

[MommyTorf]

I think this is a very good overview of why spanking hurts you and your child.


http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp.

[momtoNatalee]

I did not read all the responces but wanted to say, I thought the same thing before my dd was born. And now I could never dream of laying a hand on her at all. Not even if she did the worst thing imaginable. Most likely you will change your mind. I was spanked occasionally as a child and I do not see where it did any good at all. If I was going to do something wrong I never thought "I better not or else I'll get a spanking" IMO it just doesn't work.

[captain optimism]

So, in addition to what Gentle Discipline is not -- it must exclude hitting!-- let's talk about what it is.

It's called Gentle Discipline because there is a component of discipline and guidance. It's not "permissive" which is I think a euphemism for neglectful.

For example, if you want your child to behave nicely in public, there is an aspect of providing information about ettiquette. People don't automatically know how to say please and thank you, how to respond to hello and goodbye.

They learn from modelling. Parents say hello, how are you, may I please have some noodles, thank you. The young person learns to do those things. (A good reason not to use corporal punishment, by the way! If you hit them to make them behave better, they might try the same thing on someone else!)

They also learn from explicit instruction and reminders. For example, "Now would be a good time to say thanks, while Aunt Zelda is still here."

Most importantly, parents create the conditions for their children's good behavior. You have to know about their stage of development to know what they can handle--attention span, for instance. You make sure they have had enough sleep and enough nutritious food. You check to see if the environment is generally positive. All of those things set up conditions for good behavior.

(They work on adults, too! This is why at meetings, businesses provide snacks and beverages.)

[asoulunbound]

Still Learning

Just so y'all know, I'm trying to be difficult. :
I really don't understand GD at all. : I have read Natural Family Living a while ago and am going to read the Dr. Sears webpage when I get time to really go through it.
What do you do instead of spanking? Like, time-outs? Verbal correction? Taking away privileges? Are there things that you have felt were not "solved" (Can't think of a better word- corrected? Fixed?) by GD?
Have you ever gone back an apologised to a child who you spanked after deciding to try GD?
I just want to figure out all this stuff BEFORE I have kids. I'm not going to risk scarring them by spanking them if there is another effective way.

[GooeyRN]

Originally Posted by asoulunbound

Just so y'all know, I'm trying to be difficult. :
I really don't understand GD at all. : I have read Natural Family Living a while ago and am going to read the Dr. Sears webpage when I get time to really go through it.
What do you do instead of spanking? Like, time-outs? Verbal correction? Taking away privileges? Are there things that you have felt were not "solved" (Can't think of a better word- corrected? Fixed?) by GD?
Have you ever gone back an apologised to a child who you spanked after deciding to try GD?
I just want to figure out all this stuff BEFORE I have kids. I'm not going to risk scarring them by spanking them if there is another effective way.

Its great you are educating yourself before having children. You really seem to have it together by thinking of the future and your effects on your future children.

[katallen]

I found using Attachment Parenting as Dr. Sear's describes it from birth really built a strong base for going onto gentle discipline because it is all about getting to know your child and their triggers and giving your child a strong sense of being loved and belonging to a family unit where parents will do what is best for you and meet your needs and deal with you in a loving way. Because we are so attached I have found that dd is usually very open to not doing something because it disrupts our harmony (sounds dorky but that is the best way I can put it). She is also very caring and willing to help and I am able to prevent triggers and address them with words in a way that she understands and accepts.
What I do with dd mostly involves getting off my butt and going over to help her listen by guiding her body or picking her up and following through with a request, For instance, if she won't come to me to get her shoes on I go and help her to come and get them on. I have done this since she was little and it has taught her that when I talk she should focus on what I am asking her to do. I don't get angry or upset,but I also don't repeat myself.

Lastly, Adventures in Gentle Discipline by Hilary Flowers has a great section that I would reccommend on parental anger and triggers as well as a lot of good parenting ideas .

[secretresistance]

Originally Posted by asoulunbound

Just so y'all know, I'm trying to be difficult. :
I really don't understand GD at all. : I have read Natural Family Living a while ago and am going to read the Dr. Sears webpage when I get time to really go through it.
What do you do instead of spanking? Like, time-outs? Verbal correction? Taking away privileges? Are there things that you have felt were not "solved" (Can't think of a better word- corrected? Fixed?) by GD?
Have you ever gone back an apologised to a child who you spanked after deciding to try GD?
I just want to figure out all this stuff BEFORE I have kids. I'm not going to risk scarring them by spanking them if there is another effective way.

Are there any scenarios in particular that you are concerned about handling? I've been thinking about the concepts and practice of GD for so long now that it's hard to know where to start, you know? Something that I use as a sort of baseline is to remember that children are people just like you or I. Wild and crazy people at times, but people nonetheless. It seems like the mindset of traditional disciplinarians fails to recognize this.

It's great that you're thinking about this ahead of time. There will be many wise and experienced mamas weighing in, no doubt. Just keep your mind open and things will start to click, I bet.

[irinam]

Originally Posted by asoulunbound

Just so y'all know, I'm trying to be difficult. :
I really don't understand GD at all. : I have read Natural Family Living a while ago and am going to read the Dr. Sears webpage when I get time to really go through it.
What do you do instead of spanking? Like, time-outs? Verbal correction? Taking away privileges? Are there things that you have felt were not "solved" (Can't think of a better word- corrected? Fixed?) by GD?
Have you ever gone back an apologised to a child who you spanked after deciding to try GD?
I just want to figure out all this stuff BEFORE I have kids. I'm not going to risk scarring them by spanking them if there is another effective way.

Let me join the others saying Good for you for looking into it before you have kids

Now, you will see "different flavors" of GD on this board. Here is my "flavor" - nothing in the healthy (physically and emotionally) child needs to be "fixed" or "corrected". They are fine just the way they are.

My goal is to live harmoniously with my children and not "mold" them into something *I* want them to be. My goal is to *help* them be what they already are help them florish. My goal is to help them learn what they want to learn.

So, to me GD (Gentle Discipline) is not about finding gentle ways to control the kids. To me discipline = teaching and guiding. Therefore, no time-outs, taking away privileges, etc., etc., - no punishments. I am their Mom, not their personal policewoman

[mamaduck]

Here is a link to a thread we had not to long ago, that emphasizes what GD *is* rather than what it isn't. It was a good thread -- worth a look.

The "How To" Thread

[DevaMajka]

What do I do instead? Ya know, one book I'd recommend (that I got a lot of practical ideas out of, in dealing with young kids) is Becoming The Parent You Want to Be.
We don't punish, or use any other type of behaviorism (not consciously, anyways).
What I do, is trust that he wants to do the socially acceptable thing (a concept from The Continuum Concept, another book I loved). I help him when he needs help in doing so.
When ds is doing something that I don't want him to do, I first give info and explain "Don't hit the dog. She doesn't like to be hit." Then I try to figure out what the impulse was for the action, and I let him know the impulse is ok, but that he needs to express it in a socially acceptable way. WHY was he hitting the dog? Was he experimenting with hitting? Then I redirect in a way that honors the impulse. If he was experimenting with hitting, I tell him he can hit the couch or something.
Honestly, that's it. That's pretty much as far as I usually have to go. If it were to come to a point where that didn't work, I'd figure there was some underlying reason for it, and I'd remove him from the situation, and try to meet the underlying need.
I got those ideas mostly from Becoming the parent. Its what feels right to me, and works for ds. There are other ideas in there as well.

[pookel]

Originally Posted by asoulunbound

What do you do instead of spanking? Like, time-outs? Verbal correction? Taking away privileges? Are there things that you have felt were not "solved" (Can't think of a better word- corrected? Fixed?) by GD?

My son is still just barely a toddler, but here is how things look from my perspective ...

Corbin doesn't just up and decide to be "bad." When he does something he's not supposed to do, it's either because something is wrong and he's cranky and doesn't know what to do, or because he's bored and can't think of what else to do with his time. The best example of this is one time he *insisted* on pulling the DVDs off the shelf even though he's usually very good about that and knows he isn't supposed to. I pulled him away a couple of times - then realized he had a poopy diaper! I got him cleaned up, and he left the DVDs alone.

Sometimes he's just in a bad mood, or bored, and doesn't want to play with his usual toys, so he tries to play with things like the remotes even though he knows we don't want him to. Those times, I just scoop him up and we go do something else. Like, "OK, you're cranky in the living room, let's go outside and drop rocks in a bucket."

Another thing is to just watch him for the behaviors I don't want him to do. He's too young to have any impulse control, so I just have to pay attention and grab the cup out of his hand before he dumps it on the floor, or whatever. At this age, it's all about prevention, not about punishing him in order to make him follow the "rules."

[captain crunchy]

Let me join the others saying Good for you for looking into it before you have kids

Now, you will see "different flavors" of GD on this board. Here is my "flavor" - nothing in the healthy (physically and emotionally) child needs to be "fixed" or "corrected". They are fine just the way they are.

My goal is to live harmoniously with my children and not "mold" them into something *I* want them to be. My goal is to *help* them be what they already are help them florish. My goal is to help them learn what they want to learn.

So, to me GD (Gentle Discipline) is not about finding gentle ways to control the kids. To me discipline = teaching and guiding. Therefore, no time-outs, taking away privileges, etc., etc., - no punishments. I am their Mom, not their personal policewoman

True dat.

[snugg_bug]

As everyone has pretty much answered the OP's question, I just wanted to chime in on this statement:

Originally Posted by asoulunbound

....I was spanked occasionally as a child and I don't believe it hurt me physically or emotionally....

I have heard this argument from alot of people. However, keep this in mind. Children are in the here-and-now and you can't consider "when they are an adult, they will be better for it or not look back at being spanked at anything that did them harm". You have to remember, you are bigger than they are. They are little, and here comes someone 3 times their size striking them. Think about how that little one feels right at that moment. Fear. Not, "I did something I should not have done". Do you want your child to fear you, or learn and understand why their behaviour needs to be corrected?
Think about it.

[asoulunbound]

Thanks

Thanks all! I will look into the books you reccomended. Appreciate your insights, mamas.

[Yooper]

It is great that you want to figure out this stuff before having kids. I was the same way. I also did not understand why a good swat here and there was harmful. I have VERY little patience, a low threshold for annoying behavior/loud noises/messes, and I have a quick-as-lightening temper. I am not a "softie" and really used to prefer that children be seen and not heard. I did not even know about AP. I was doing my research in more mainstream parenting approaches. I had no idea that "discipline" could be accomplished without punishment or at least rewards. But amazingly, you grow into things as you need to. I was so happy to find the people here and on other boards that think this way. I started to challenge thier ideas thinking it must be impossible and these people were zen-like nut jobs. I spent a period of time posting challenges like "how can you possible teach a kid to not run in the street without spanking/time-out/"consequences"/etc......?" But you know what? You come into your game as you do it. I did get to the spot where I knew that by the time dd was born that I did not want to spank and I might be interested in non-punitive parenting approaches but I did not have any idea how I was going to do it. Each kid is so different. So is each parent. I had a strong willed, non-sleeping baby and was still as impatient and quick-tempered as ever. I had to find an approach that fit those needs. For us that is consensual living. I got a great amount of info from the Sears' books then moved on the "Becoming the Parent you want to be", "How to Talk to Kids so Kids will Listen and Listen so they will Talk", "Unconditional Parenting", "Hold on to your Kids", and others. We fell into it as parents. My dd is almost 3 now and even with my temper I have not even come close to spanking which is just shocking to me. With my temper and dd's spirit, I never thought that was possible even if it was my goal. You will find your groove and when you get tripped up there are tons of books and AP/GD parenting forums like MDC to give advice/hugs/ideas. If you want to be a gentle parent, you will find your way. Keep researching