What to do when DS wants his way ONLY?

[megincl]

We try to work gently with DS on challenging situations such as transitions, baths, teeth brushing, diapers at night, etc. He's three and getting more and more certain of what he wants, able to express it completely, and totally frustrated when things don't go his way.

An example: Last night DS was in the tub. DW was with him and gave him a warning about needing to take out the plug in two minutes, then one minute, then she told him it was time. He said, no no, he had to finish up something. Fine enough -- we know how important it is for him to finish his "plan" and talk with him often about that. When asked if he was finished and he was, DW said it was time. Again he said no no, he just had to do such and such (one more thing). DW said no, it was time, and she pulled the plug. All out hysteria ensued. She took him out of the tub, calmed him down quickly enough, but that hysteria is what we seem to encounter so often when DS doesn't get his way.

It makes me worry that he can't deal with hearing no or with not being the one in charge. Those kind of thoughts bother me, because while I want to have a child-centered life, I don't want him to run our family and, of course, things can't always go his way. We try to make things as Quinn-centered as possible, to give tons of warnings before a transition, to offer options, etc. I also know that a three year old is really working on autonomy, being in charge, etc. But, I don't know how to reconcile all of this and help my son be okay with change and when things don't go "his way," so to speak.

Any wisdom on this greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
megin

[Best Feeling]

Since you mentioned bath time specifically, here are some bath time ideas we employ:

First, bath time is generally a really fun time for DD. She loves water play. We’re not totally child-centered here but I do try to make bath time an unrushed activity. We ask her to pull the plug when she is ready to get out. By putting her in control of her bath, she seems more willing to pull the plug in a reasonable amount of time.

If I really need to get on with things and she’s not ready to get out of the tub yet, I will tell her she can continue to play in the tub but without water. She or I will pull the plug and I’ll throw a towel on the bottom of the tub and let her play in there while I put laundry away in my room (she bathes in the master bath). I won’t do this with water in the tub, and with the towel in the tub she’s never slipped. Sometimes she will play a few more minutes, happy just to have a cup and a couple of wet washcloths. Usually, though, she gets tired of being in there alone after a minute or two and climbs out.

IF bath time needs to have a limit on it and she’s really dirty so a bath is unavoidable (it’s rare that I deem a bath unavoidable), I’ll tell her ahead of time, “this bath needs to be fast – do you want a bath or a spray down [with the shower head].” She’ll usually opt for the bath. I’ll do the countdown like you do. If she’s still resistant, I’ll say, “would you like to pull the plug or do you want me to do it.” Just by giving her one little choice in the matter seems to really ease her frustration.

Of course, she is almost three, so it doesn’t always work. Hopefully this helps a little

[LynnS6]

Empathy for him... and maybe changing the way you tell him it's time. So, with the 2 minute warning comes, "We've got two minutes before we need to get out. What do you want to finish before you're done?"

Then when it's time to pull the plug, PULL it. You're giving him mixed messages here - it's time to go, oh, OK, one more thing, but not TWO more things. I'd either not give him any more or simply wait until he's ready to get out of the tub on his own. It's the middle ground that's a slippery slope, IMO.

And when he screams "No, no, no" you can gently hold him and acknowledge that it's hard. "It's fun to take a bath and it's hard to get out."

I don't think you need to worry about him 'running the show' or 'not being able to handle no.' Let's face it, none of us handle 'no' really well! Your job is to help him through these rough emotions and show him that it's OK to be upset, and some things he can do to help himself feel better.

Also, if he's tired, hungry or sick, transitions are going to be even harder. That DOES get easier as he gets older and more self control. Relax dad, he'll be OK.

[marsupial*mama]

I think this is a situation where a little bit of creativity goes a long way. Have you thought about what he will do when he gets out of the bath? What would make that a happy transition for him? What might come after a bath that would entice him willingly out of the bath and onto the next stage?

One way to help toddlers understand the passage of time is using a simple egg timer, preferably one like a little hour glass but anything that helps them comprehend how much time is left before the transition.

Perhaps you could introduce a fun or pleasurable step in the routine after bath time that might be something to look forward to after bath time is over - eg, story time, massage, supper or similar? You know him best so would be able to choose an appropriate incentive.

Most of all, I think it's important to go with the flow and avoid being too rigid in our routines. We also need to remember that every stage is only temporary. They won't be like this forever. So let him have his way if it's not something vital to his safety and wellbeing. More often than not it is our own adult attachment to a specific outcome that is the root cause of the conflict. When we step back and impassionately observe our toddler's motivations there is usually a pattern of logic that is more rational than our own.

[newmommy]

Does Quinn have a lovey type thing he is attached to?

When it is time for DS to come out of the bath tub and I can tell he will resist... I come to him with his lovey (think distraction) and give it to him, and I gently ease him out of the tub and into the towel.

Do you have a favorite item of his that you can distract him with at the SAME TIME you are easing him out of the tub?

Another thing I just discovered is taking a bath with DS and we come out together. We did this last night and it was great!

I can't believe I never thought of it before...

[captain crunchy]

As for the bath, I am wondering if he really loves baths, if maybe you or dw (whoever is bathing him) could just kind of roll with it? I think he maybe just wants to have control over when he gets out. My daughter would absolutely live in the bath, so I do get it. When she wants to stay in particularly long, I take that time to clean the bathroom (we only use vinegar and baking soda so there are no toxins), read a magazine, do my toenails, make some phone calls (all in the bathroom) -- you get the picture. It has really only been one or two times she has stayed in a lonnnnng time -- otherwise she signs *done* when she is ready to get out. I think because she knows now, *okay, they are willing to be agreeable to me taking a lonnnnnnnngggg bath*...so she feels fine with getting out... I dunno....

Another thing I just discovered is taking a bath with DS and we come out together. We did this last night and it was great!

We have been doing that since birth too I second that idea.

Or along with the pp's suggestion, perhaps you can have something fun for when he gets out. Something he is looking forward to --- then instead of saying "do you want to get out of the bath" you could frame it like "do you want to read your book/make popcorn/watch that movie/color (whatever) now?" Then it sort of becomes about what are we beginning rather than what are we ending (the bath).

Good luck

[Best Feeling]

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

When she wants to stay in particularly long, I take that time to clean the bathroom (we only use vinegar and baking soda so there are no toxins),

I do this too, it's the neatest and cleanest room in my messy house

[megincl]

Thanks, folks, for the suggestions (By the way, I'm mom too, not dad ).

I think that much of this will really help. I do really struggle with the whole mixed message thing. I want DS to feel that there are times he can suggest an alternative (often if I tell him one more minute, he says, "no, two," as he's REALLY into numbers lately). In cases like that, I'm often willing to go with his alternative and tell him that I can accept that compromise, so that he gets a sense of negotiation. But then again, I know it's important to be clear and stick to what I said. Oy! I think we'll have to see what the situation warrants.

Reading all the responses about bath time and knowing that that is a time that actually isn't necessarily the hardest (mostly because it doesn't happen every day ), I realize that it's really all about transitions for DS, so being clear with him about what's next or asking him up front what he needs to finish up should really help.

Thanks! And I'd love to hear more ideas if folks have them.

take care,
megin

[loraxc]

:

megincl, I totally get you. We are struggling with all of this too. Some children have a very hard time with transitions, it seems, especially at this age.

The issue we have with letting all these things go on as long as DD chooses is that bedtime then becomes too late. DD wakes up very early every morning, no matter what time she goes to sleep. When she goes to bed late, she is cranky all day the next day. We have considered giving her more control over bedtime but I really think it would be a disaster. She is always quite tired (yawning, rubbing eyes) by bedtime.

[captain crunchy]

(By the way, I'm mom too, not dad ).

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought you were a guy you sig says *mommy to ds and wife to Katie* so I put dw (dear wife) because you said she was giving the bath in question.

[Best Feeling]

Oldest DD was into numbers for a while but she had a backwards take on it.

Me: Five more minutes A.

DD: No two! Two more minutes!

Me: Uhhhhm, okay...

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought you were a guy you sig says *mommy to ds and wife to Katie* so I put dw (dear wife) because you said she was giving the bath in question.

I don't think she was referring to you

[jenmk]

My ds, who will be 4 in August, has the same reaction if someone else turns off the water in the shower or pulls the plug in the bath and if he's removed from the bathtub. BIG meltdown.

We do the countdown, too, but what seems to make a HUGE difference in the countdown is to give extra warnings just before time is up. A one minute warning just isn't good enough to prepare him that it's time to get out. This is what we do: Two minute warning "Okay, bud, we're going to have to be all done in two minutes." One minute warning "One more minute and we're all done." Extra warnings near the end of the last minute "Almost done, buddy." I do two or three of those, spaced probably 20 seconds apart, then "Okay, all done. Can you turn off the water/pull the plug, please?" If he resists, then I say, "I'm sorry but we're all done. It's time to get out. Do you want to pull the plug or do you want me to do it?" If he says no, then I'll say "Okay, I'll do it." At which point he usually protests and says he wants to do it. Knowing that I'm serious, that I will pull the plug if he doesn't do it, he will pull it then, and eventually get out of the tub on his own, happily.

Though, lately, I've been leaving it up to him when he wants to pull the plug if it's a bath. Not if it's a shower, though, because we don't have good enough flow on our well to allow that. Also, if I get tired of waiting for him to get out of the bath once the water's gone, I've said, "Okay, I'm going to go do X since you're not ready to get out yet. Your towel is here, and you can get out when you're ready." That way he gets to decide when he wants to step out of the tub, and I'm no longer irritated with having to wait and wait and wait for him.

Edited to add: Also it does really help to inspire him to get out if I talk about what's coming next. "Let's go get some banana chips" (a bedtime treat) "and then we'll read stories with Daddy." or "Hey, look! I have your favorite fire truck shirt to wear for night-night!" A pp mentioned using that technique, and it is a good one.

[katallen]

Most three year olds go through a phase where they test the rules and start having very out of control tantrums no matter how well the rules are layed out for them. My dd stopped letting me hold her and comfort her through her tantrums just after she turned three and she had several tantrums that lasted for a half hour because of relatively small things. At the daycare where I work I have heard and talked to several of the teachers about age three and they have all agreed that they could do without it.

What works for me is to let dd know that I am there for her when she wants me and then to grab a book and read it and allow her room to express herself while not giving in to the tantrum. Also, helping her to do more by herself and to have more independence has seemed to cut down on her frustration and some of the triggers.

[mightymoo]

We are having the same sorts of issues with DD (also 3). It depends on so many things, some days she ends the bath happily, others its a fit. One thing I do that is different from the above suggestions is I'll tell her 'okay, I think its almost time to get out of the bath - how much longer do you want to stay in?' - to which she replies '8 minutes!' and so I then count down the minutes from the time she suggested - it seems to help her that she is in control of how long the bath is.

I also give her choices within the context of what I've already laid down. I ask her if she'd rather be in the bath or out of the bath when we pull the plug.

We also count all her toys as she puts them back in the bucket, she seems to enjoy that and helps her peaceful go about ending the bath.