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ARGH, I guess Dr. Sears had easy kids.... - Page 3  

post #41 of 52
I agree with much that has been said above about expectations, developmental appropriateness, and using prevention as much as possible in small children. My son is almost 29 months, so I'm right about where you are age wise. It's been said here and in many other threads that while a small child (and I'm thinking under 3 or 4, here) may "know" what to do or not to do, there is so much more to it than that, and that because their empathy and impulse control isn't even close to fully developed, it's asking a lot for them to be able to follow through on a lot of things, without a significant amount of control/conditioning...which in and of itself isn't *necessarily* a bad thing, but it can become the outline for increasing intensity and number of power struggles in other aspect of daily life.

Up to that certain age (which will be different for every child, since every child is an individual) when impulse control and empathy magically "click", I personally feel like it's my job to:
1) "Proof" as much as possible to prevent situations that bug me from happening.
2) Not expect follow through on kiddo's part a vast majority of the time, BUT still lay out my expectations to him so he "hears" them.
3) Set situations up for success...

So for the cleaning up - I totally hear you about the mess, and the safety hazards (I nearly impaled my foot on a metal car trunk last week), a couple weeks ago I did a major reorg and purge of toys, and only left out what I was comfortable with beign strewn about for the better part of the day. Going along with what Deva33 had to say, I believe that the act of cleaning up throughout the day was too "final" for DS...so I felt it was my job to reconfigure the situation. Now, we don't clean up until it's time to go to bed....and I'm OK with the level of mess that's out and about during the day (it's not dangerous or a walking hazard), the WHOLE day. Every morning, he gleefully dumps every single tub of toys, and then plays randomly with them throughout the day. And, I've become OK with that, because there are less toys out...and, he's started actually *playing* with the toys that are out, instead of being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of 'stuff" available to him, KWIM? And at night time, the very last thing we do before bath is clean up. Sometimes he's very into it, sometiems he's not. Either way it gets done, and I usually only have to remind him once that it's time for bed and all toys go away, and he doesn't try to re-dump them....now, if I try to straighten up durign the day for whatever reason, they'll end up back on the floor in a heartbeat. But that's OK....I don't worry that he's gonna be the same way when he's 6, cause the expectation of him helping at the end of the night is there every time....and he usually helps, even if it's only 1 toy, I still consider that helping at this point. I think I said in another thread something like, we don't expect a 6 yo to master calculus without going through simple math first...so I'm not worried that at 2-1/2 my kid doesn't want to clean....at 32, *I* don't want to clean most of the time....but I have the impulse control, foresight, and other emotional and intellectual abilities to see that cleaning does serve a purpose. So he sometimes puts toys away and sometimes doesn't - he sees it happening every night, hears me letting him know we expect help, and he hears us thank him when he does help, and that reinforces it all....and it will eventually click. I talk to him during cleanup about workign together, etc., so it's not like we (DH and I) just sit there and do it all silently while he ignores us.

As far as the food, when he was in a pitching stage, I just limited the amount on his tray to 2 or 3 bites, end of story. Prevention was the key to me on that one. He sometimes protested or asked for more, and that was fine, but if he only had a couple things to toss, my stress level was WAY lower than an entire plate of spaghetti on the wall and floor....and when stuff did get pitched, I'd say in a very low key, monotone voice something like "food is for your mouth/belly/eating, not for throwing. Please keep it on your tray" and that was about it. The less power and reaction I gave to his throwing, the less enticing it was to him.

I understand where you're coming from, but I do think that a lot of this does have to come from you still at this stage in the game. If he was 6, I'd maybe put more on him, but he's just 2-1/2...SO new to everything still. Just my humble opinion, feel free to take or leave any part of it!
post #42 of 52
Just had to post here again since I fell for it again:

My food tossing child was having a hard time with corn on the cob. He liked it when I cut some off for him, so I gave him the corn in a dish. Should have taken the time to sit and give him bites.



will I ever learn?

Damp food is the worst because it doesn't sweep with a broom well.
post #43 of 52
Hey Ally,
My son has ASD so I know how hard it is. We just started having ABA therapy (about 6 weeks) and we have noticed a huge difference in our son. He is in therapy around 30 hours a week total with all his ABA and EI services. For us it has been a lifesaver... He had a lot of OCD issues related to the ASD. Do you notice Brandon doing any patterns when it is time to clean up? Or maybe his pattern is that he wants you to clean up at home? These patterns are hard to break, or at least for us they were. We needed professional help, maybe if your son does get a diagnosis the therapists will have some ideas for you. Right now I am really here to just offer you hugs and a .

It does sound like the toys thing could be your son thinking it is final. I would probably just clear out all the toys and only have a couple and nothing like blocks or something that I need to really clean up a lot of. Once he is comfortable in this setting then I would add more toys. Maybe he is just overwhelmed...Not sure what else to say...sorry hun. O' and I wanted to add that my son will not pick up anything unless it is on his terms. Since we have so many battles, this is one we are choosing not to really fight. We suggest it and make it fun but sometimes we just clean up after he is in bed.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by PancakeGoddess
Just had to post here again since I fell for it again:

My food tossing child was having a hard time with corn on the cob. He liked it when I cut some off for him, so I gave him the corn in a dish. Should have taken the time to sit and give him bites.



will I ever learn?

Damp food is the worst because it doesn't sweep with a broom well.
Have you considered getting a dog? Dog ownership is guaranteed to remove most of your concern and worry about food spillage. You just come in with the mop after the tongue.
post #45 of 52
I agree totally about the removing toys to the extent that you are comfortable with the amount he can strew about at any one time. That does have the added benefit of making it for them to PLAY with toys. When we get too many toys in the house, my kids quit playing and staring pushing them around.

Since he's got SID, I do think you need to look at this both from a 'typical' gentle discipline stance and an SID stance. Some things he may be physically capable of doing, but not able to carry out. Since it sounds like he's hyposensitive, he CANNOT learn from falling on the toys and getting hurt. He doesn't feel it!! So, prevention, prevention, prevention is what's key.

I'd also look really, really hard into finding acceptable alternatives for him. What does he love about dumping the bins? Is it the heavy, large motor stuff? Is it just dumping? Can you set up a designated 'dumping' spot (maybe some large laundry baskets that he can dump toys in and out of)? What else can you get him that involves heavy lifting and deep pressure stuff? (Talk to your OT about this). Our son spent an entire YEAR playing "garbage truck" where he would take every toy he owned, put them in bins and dump them on the couch, climbing up and down on my dh (who works from home) to 'drive' the truck to the next house. So, I feel your pain about having every single toy out all the time. I used to joke that we would never be robbed because the robbers wouldn't be able to get past the front door without falling!

What is it about throwing toys against the fire place that he likes? Our son, who has mild SID, LOVED to throw his puzzle pieces across the wooden floor. He'd start every day with that, and we'd pick them up when he went to bed. Was it the sound? The feeling of throwing? Can you figure that out for your son? Maybe get him some nerf balls or squishy cloth balls that he CAN throw. Or can you put something up on your fireplace to make it softer? (OK, it's not great decorating, but for a long time, we had an exercise mat at the bottom of the stairs so that when our toddler fell down them, she wouldn't die on the slate floor). Can you find ways for him to kick/jump and get the large motor sensations he needs?

Finally -- cut yourself and him some slack. You sound like you are in a VERY stressful place right now. You've recently lost a baby, you're running 2 businesses, working on a Ph.D. and have a child who is close to, if not on, the PDD spectrum. And add to that the typical toddler contrariness and this is a recipe for one very frustrated mom! What can you do to lessen the stress? I find that I'm much more able to deal with my children's behavior (and they're suddenly much better behaved ) when MY stress is lessened. What can you do to get yourself some time to recover/work through your grief/work on your Ph.D.?

Oh and really finally -- I like the book "Parenting wiht Purpose" by Linda Madison because it has some nice tips talks in a nice, sensible way about what to expect (and what's reasonable to expect) for 1, 2, 3 and 4 year olds. (I don't like some of her advice for 4 year olds, but it's great for 1s and 2s!) Have you read "The Highly Sensitive Child"? "The out of sync child"? "Raising a Sensory Smart Child?" (both pretty stardard for SID kids).

Two other ones that are newer and might help:
The Sensory-Sensitive Child : Practical Solutions for Out-of-Bounds Behavior by Karen A. Smith
Sensational Kids : Hope and Help for Children with Sensory Processing Disorder by Lucy Miller
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by PancakeGoddess
Damp food is the worst because it doesn't sweep with a broom well.
Just let it dry! That's what we do at our house. Who needs to sweep their floors more than once a week anyway???
post #47 of 52

re wet food

dog: had one, wasn't worth the cleanup value. stinky, hairy and way way too loud. I'm really just not into doggies. My mom took ours and they are a very happy match.

letting it dry: I like the way you think. In this case, it had to be swept - the other two kids and dp were in and out right through this patch of kitchen floor and they'd never have been able to keep from stepping in it.
post #48 of 52
My ds did the same kind of dumping. His motivation was to tease me. Sometimes he would get upset if dh put his things away, because he didn't like his things disappearing or dh being controlling. I limited his toys to ones w/o many pieces. That helped tremendously. I also just didn't clean up frequently. It wasn't until he turned 4, that I felt he was ready for things like legos from the dumping perspective.
post #49 of 52
as for the food dumping......how you thought of a mat you can put around his seating area? I have a big plastic sheet mat that my mom got me to use under the high chair to prevent food on the floor You could probably make one out of some plastic or a tarp.
post #50 of 52
I just wanted to say something in regards to the food throwing...these are just some things that worked for us.

Sawyer (2 and a half) did this until we put away the high chair. First we had "picnics" on a sheet on the kitchen floor. It wasn't fun for him to throw food anymore because he wasn't up high and for some reason throwing it accross the room was boring to him. We also would pretend that we were doggies and just eat from our bowls with our mouths (doesnt work with all food) so that way he didn't have anything in his hands to throw and it was fun enough that he forgot about throwing the food. We got rid of the high chair over a year ago and a friend passed on a toddler size table and chairs. He eats better when he is alowed to graze and we don't force him to stay seated. We set food out and just tell him its time to eat and he usually gets up once or twice then sits down on his own to finish.

I have found with him everything has to be HIS IDEA. He wants to be the one to make a good decision...anyway, just wanted to share!
post #51 of 52
Dd has never been much of a food tosser but we occasionally watch another child that is. We eat outside for those meals when possible We also let food dry before we sweep it up if it is tedious to get cleaned up otherwise. for some reason cat puke comes out of carpet better when dried too.......

Back OT.....

My dd is a little older and still has zero interest in picking up toys. I never really thought they were suppose to be OK with that at this young of an age. she dumps all of her toys too and also enjoys taking apart ALL of the furniture so that jumping on the couch to Beastie Boys videos is more fun: It can be maddening but I do my very best to ignore it. I am a neat freak. I clean up her toys. More and more she is helping me. I do not ask her to, she just does. It is her house too and I try to not be so bossy about how it is kept. I am responsible for keeping it clean (as in not dirty). If I want it to be not-messy, I feel that it is my responisbility to make it so. Dd likes it messy. Which person's preference wins? Dd is happy to help keep it picked up for special occasions. Like if we are going to have a dinner party, I explain that it is a special occasion and ask her if she would be willing to leave the living room intact. I also help her stick to her agreement by having her help me prepare food or setting her up near me with playdough or paint. But that is a recent phenomenon. To the OP: It will pass. If you can find a way to not stress so much about it, that might be the easier path than trying to get your ds to do something he is not ready or willing to do.

I vividly remember this battle with my parents when I was little. They eventually gave up when my sister came along but they were really into trying to get me to clean up when I was 3 and 4 years old. I had a playroom/office that ws attached to the living room. Each day, piece by piece, all of the toys would migrate into the living room so I could play closer to where my mom was (watching general hospital). After dinner, my dad would try and get me to put all of the toys back. I remember very well thinking it was am impossible job, being confused as to what exactly I was suppose to do, and wondering why I could not just leave the toys there to avoid all of the hard work of moving them again in the morning. I understand now that my parents just wanted their house to look somewhat normal for a few hours each evening. But i did not see or understand that at all at the time even though they tried to explain it to me. As the battle escalated, I remember peeing my pants in frustration and panic. I remember having temper tantrums and talking back. Like I said, they eventually moved to a more relaxed parenting approach and I had a great childhood, but I do remember that power struggle. Maybe that is even the one that had them shopping for new approaches. I should ask my mom. But anyway, it is one of my earliest memories.
post #52 of 52
since he likes dumping the bins, can you make a mental shift and "play" that?

like instead of building and stacking (typical play/use of blocks and such), can you use the time and energy you're not using doing that to play the clean-up and dump game (his preferred use of blocks and such)?

then just wait til he's in bed and clean up for the night?

especially if he's got some sensory issues, it seems pretty important to honor his need for this. and as we know, if the need is met, it won't be a need anymore.
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Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › ARGH, I guess Dr. Sears had easy kids....