Advice : New baby and our three year old daughter (long)

[tammyw]

I am really, really desperate for some advice. We had a new baby one week ago, and the last couple of days with my three year old daughter have been absolutely horrible. Tonight things spiraled terribly out of control.

The entire day was a total battle. Every chance she gets she is screaming and yelling. The evening turned much worse. She said she didn’t want to have a bath after we ran it, so I got in instead. Then she said it was *her* bath and she wanted me to get out. I was so furious with her at this point that I had a hard time controlling my emotions and anger and did get out but wasn’t exactly friendly.

So she had her bath and then it was time to get her pajamas on, etc. Except that she absolutely refused to do all the regular bedtime routine. I started losing it and we just started getting angry at each other. Then she started kicking and hitting us (her dad and I). We kept telling her we don’t hit in this family. I explained to her that hitting makes me feel unsafe. I explained that hitting hurts people and that hitting is never okay. And yet she kept hitting and kicking. And I just kept getting angrier and angrier. I’m embarrassed to say that I didn’t behave in a gentle discipline way. I told her that I didn’t want to be around her. It was a mess. I started crying and asked her why she continued to act that way. She actually told us she was jealous of the baby. And I totally understand that, and at the same time I’m feeling so much anger towards her because of her actions.

I just need some advice on how I can better get a handle on my emotions. All of my friends said that there’s a dirty little secret that when a new baby comes along, you secretly sort of hate your first child. I never expected to feel those things and yet I am and it scares the heck out of me. And I know she is feeling that also.

My husband is currently sitting on the sofa reading Connection Parenting and everything he is reading to me is exactly what happened tonight.

I’m just feeling so many things. Scared that she will actually hurt the baby. Terrified that I won’t regain my patience with her. Angry that she is acting out in a way that really doesn’t feel safe to me – namely kicking and hitting and constantly screaming.

I don’t even know what kind of advice I’m really looking for, just know that I need some support to get through this really tough time. I knew having a second baby would be hard, but this has been an even bigger challenge than I expected. My husband is going back to work on Monday and the fear is just incredibly strong. The thought of handling both nearly kills me.

Please, any support, advice, or words of wisdom you all can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[mahogny]

Three can be a tough age anyway, but then add a new baby, and you've got a lot of stress during a time you should be babymooning and relaxing with your new babe! That can be so hard and frustrating, and no wonder you're feeling so angry with your daughter! Not to mention that you're only a week out of birth, so you've got all those crazy hormones to deal with.

It sounds like your 3 yo is feeling out of control, and is trying to gain some control in her life. She doesn't want her bath, but doesn't want you in it, either. She wants to control the bathwater.

She doesn't want to do the bedtime routine she normally does, and wants to control how she goes to bed. (And shows in you inappropriate ways, like hitting and screaming.)

She says she's jealous of the new baby, and it sounds like she's right on with that one!

Are you spending any one-on-one time with your daughter? Give the baby to your husband, and spend just 30 minutes in a separate room playing with the 3 yo. That might help her (and you!) feel a bit more centered with each other.

As for how to control your anger with your daughter, I think just admitting to yourself your anger is a huge step. My son was 3 yrs 4 mos when his sister was born, and I wish I had some words of advice from that time, but our experience was so different, nothing I would say regarding that would really apply.

Can you (or someone else) do a little role play with her? Use a baby doll to represent the new baby, and then invite her to show you (or whomever) how she feels about the baby. It will probably be disturbing to watch her if she hits or throws the baby doll (knowing that it represents the new babe) but it might help open some dialogue. "Wow, you're very upset about Baby's arrival. It can be hard to share Mommy and Daddy. You miss when it was just the three of us." etc etc. Then invite her to go to the doll whenever she feels upset about the baby. Just give her permission to feel upset about baby's arrival.

I don't know if that would work for your daughter. But, I couldn't read your post and not respond!

What a hard thing to go through!!

[chfriend]

If I may gently say...postpartum hormones. She misses you. She's lost her mommy. She loves you so much and you've thrown her over for that senseless blob. And your hormones are adjusting post-pregnancy so you are filled with powerful angers and fears.

Have a cup of tea. Don't try to hold on to the routines too hard for the next month of so. The day won't become a battle if you don't battle her. Babymoon with *both* your babies.

[famousmockngbrd]

ITA with Mahogny. I remember when DD was about 6 weeks old, DS (then almost 3) bit her on the back so hard you could see the teeth marks a week later. It was really hard. But it did get better.

I would suggest finding someone, like a relative or older child, to come over and play with your DD for an hour or so a day. You need a chance to rest and bond with your new baby (congratulations, BTW) and DD will benefit from it too.

One week is such a hard time. Your euphoria from the birth has worn off, your hormones are all out of whack and you have this huge life change to adjust to - woo hoo, good times. It will get easier, really.

[Soundhunter]

This thread is scaring me, our second DD's due date is a month before Emma's third birthday Hopefully it gets easier for you 4 soon, I have no advice, but am soaking up all that you are receiving and sending you well wishes.

[IncaMama]

:
my son was nearly 3 when my dd was born...all i can tell you is that it *will* get better. you *will* get through it and feel the love bubbling back up for your sweet daughter. give yourself some time. be as patient with yourself as you try to be with everybody else. :

[jazluv99]

i know exactly how you feel. ds1 turned 2 a month before ds2 was born. it was a crazy time but it got better. i think it was huge for her to admit that she's jealous over the baby. i know you don't have much spare time but i've just started reading "siblings without rivalry". that book has helped me tremendously! i only wish i had heard of it sooner. i'm not sure how your daughter is when she's in the throes of a "tantrum" but here's my experience with my sons. when ds1 was upset, i could not reason with him at all. he just wasn't hearing it. my first instinct now is to help him calm down. whenever he starts to hit, i acknowledge that he is upset but remind him that just b/c he's upset, that does not give him the right to hit me. i give him his pillow and tell him to have at it. i told him that it was ok to be angry at this baby that has changed everything in your life (and you had no say-so about it) but that we needed to find a different way to express that anger. for me, i found that when i would get emotional, it just made things worse. he was feeling out of control and he needed me to be in control (of myself) in order to help him figure things out. i found it easier when i had a plan. my dh was deployed at the time so i couldn't really discuss it with him. in my mind, if i already had some idea of how i would deal with his actions, it made it easier for me to keep my emotions under control. although i'm sure you already do this but she needs reassurance that she hasn't been somehow "replaced" by the baby. in her mind, you have her, why would you need another baby? it's a huge adjustment for her but she will adapt.

although ds1 would occasionally yell at me to "put gavin down!", he didn't hurt him. it wasn't too long before they were best pals and he adored his little brother.

all that being said, i understand that you're extremely emotional with having a new baby not that long ago. it's very hard now but it will get better! congrats on your lil one and here's hoping that things starting looking up soon!

[Msalise]

I agree!!! I had this problem with my daughter. My son is now 2 months old, and my daughter is only 16 months. So they are 14 months apart. However, my daught was that same way.

I also agree with someone up above stating you need to spend one on one time. That works wonders.

What I do.. So when My son is asleep. I'll take the baby monitor outside, and we play in the grass and baby pool. Or we play in her room. Then I let her help me with the baby. "help" I let her help feed the baby and what not. IT really does work. I wish you the best of luck!

Originally Posted by chfriend

If I may gently say...postpartum hormones. She misses you. She's lost her mommy. She loves you so much and you've thrown her over for that senseless blob. And your hormones are adjusting post-pregnancy so you are filled with powerful angers and fears.

Have a cup of tea. Don't try to hold on to the routines too hard for the next month of so. The day won't become a battle if you don't battle her. Babymoon with *both* your babies.

[Stephanie L.]

My DD1 was 2 1/2 when DD2 was born. Yes, I went through all of that. I found that involving her in ways that the baby can not participate really helped a lot. Not just bringing me the baby wipes, but using them (after I got the goo out of the way), or picking out what the baby would wear, or bathing the baby with me and she could wipe the baby's neck and feet. She held the baby a lot, too. Of course one-on-one with mom is good.

But the best one (I think...) was, for example, when DD1 needed me for something and DD2 would start to fuss. I'd tell the baby to wait, I'm helping her big sister. I'd talk to the baby the same way I'd talk to DD1 telling the baby she needs to be patient and wait her turn for a short moment. I'd be stalling and away from the baby for less than a minute of course, but DD1 would get it that I love her still and I want to help her still. That the baby has to wait just like she does.

Involving the older sibling was the key for us as my DH was rarely available. We seldom had the 1:1 ratio special times. Now the girls (14 months later) are BEST BEST friends. They are sooooo sweet together and are inseperable. I still have many times each day where I have to get it together, calm myself, breathe, and remember they are young, it won't last long, etc. Parenting is HARD! And very worth it!

Best wishes!

[IncaMama]

oh i forgot to add something that i do. i tell DD (even though of course she doesn't understand yet) that i'm going to spend some time with DS. DS hears me say ALL THE TIME that i have to do things for DD, and i noticed that when i was finally able to spend one on one time with him, i didn't actually SAY anything to DD about it. i mean, why would i? so that meant that the only things DS ever *heard* were about how HE wasn't being "chosen". so i decided to start letting him hear when he WAS being chosen. with the same words.

so i'd say something like "ava, here's a toy for you to play with. i'll be right over there, but it's time for me to play with rowan right now. so you stay here and i'll be back soon." rowan's face would light up because he could HEAR me choosing him in the same way that i chose her throughout the day for other things ("rowan, i have to change baby ava's diaper but i'll be right back", etc)

HTH

[radish]

Originally Posted by Stephanie L.

My DD1 was 2 1/2 when DD2 was born. Yes, I went through all of that. I found that involving her in ways that the baby can not participate really helped a lot. Not just bringing me the baby wipes, but using them (after I got the goo out of the way), or picking out what the baby would wear, or bathing the baby with me and she could wipe the baby's neck and feet. She held the baby a lot, too. Of course one-on-one with mom is good.

But the best one (I think...) was, for example, when DD1 needed me for something and DD2 would start to fuss. I'd tell the baby to wait, I'm helping her big sister. I'd talk to the baby the same way I'd talk to DD1 telling the baby she needs to be patient and wait her turn for a short moment. I'd be stalling and away from the baby for less than a minute of course, but DD1 would get it that I love her still and I want to help her still. That the baby has to wait just like she does

Originally Posted by michelemiller

so i'd say something like "ava, here's a toy for you to play with. i'll be right over there, but it's time for me to play with rowan right now. so you stay here and i'll be back soon." rowan's face would light up because he could HEAR me choosing him in the same way that i chose her throughout the day for other things ("rowan, i have to change baby ava's diaper but i'll be right back", etc)

HTH

Oh good, ive done this a few times too and it seems like it really helps DD1

great advice mamas!

[ledzepplon]

Originally Posted by michelemiller

oh i forgot to add something that i do. i tell DD (even though of course she doesn't understand yet) that i'm going to spend some time with DS. DS hears me say ALL THE TIME that i have to do things for DD, and i noticed that when i was finally able to spend one on one time with him, i didn't actually SAY anything to DD about it. i mean, why would i? so that meant that the only things DS ever *heard* were about how HE wasn't being "chosen". so i decided to start letting him hear when he WAS being chosen. with the same words.

so i'd say something like "ava, here's a toy for you to play with. i'll be right over there, but it's time for me to play with rowan right now. so you stay here and i'll be back soon." rowan's face would light up because he could HEAR me choosing him in the same way that i chose her throughout the day for other things ("rowan, i have to change baby ava's diaper but i'll be right back", etc)

HTH

I like this! Brilliant, mama!

[Piglet68]

ITA with the above suggestions. Also highly recommend Siblings Without Rivalry. While I wasn't crazy about their suggestions to lavish affection on the victim of a sibling battle (this won't apply to you until your little one is older anyways), what I loved was the book's suggestions on how to validate your older child's feelings about the baby. It's okay for them to wish you could send the baby back, etc...I think your child really needs to know that she is heard and understood, that it's okay for her to hate her baby brother sometimes, etc.

[gaialice]

Dear Tammy,
you've got great advice already but I wanted to add my own hugs and congratulations on your new baby. I also wanted to say do not stress with routines at this point. I know you may really crave to put your dd to bed and be with your husband and baby in the evening. I totally do the same. However, the month (at least) following the baby's arrival is special time, and celebration time for the whole family. So I would say let go of the evening routine. If she does not want a bath, let her be. If she does not want to have dinner, let her dinner there, for her to eat later if she wants to. Let things slide for a little while. You'll get back in the routine when things settle down. I do not know what obligations you and your dh have - if any - outside the home in the morning, but is it possible to let go of them for a little while.
Hugs, it is hard to transition from one to two....

[semicrunch]

Hi. I'm coming out of lurk mode : to chime in on this one. I really feel for the OP. My poor DD has been going through the whole gamut of toddler craziness since DS arrived. I have really been struggling for months and was happy to come across the GD concept. (The term was new to me but the ideas really hit home when I started to do some reading.) I have never hit my children but have been surprised and frightened lately by the violence of my emotions and the real rage I can feel toward DD. I never thought I had a temper, but apparently I do. I'm trying to learn to recognize my own frustration and to be able to take a moment to collect myself before responding, but it's hard. Every day I say or do several things I regret - childish things like throwing some contested item (a diaper today) or taking a sarcastic tone with DD. It's so hard. I think part of the problem is that I spend so much time alone with the kids that I start to behave like a toddler too. Rather than DD modeling my behavior I’m modeling hers!

It has helped me a lot to realize that I don't have to "win" or worry about "caving in" on demands that really don't matter. So DD hasn't worn actual pajamas to bed for weeks, and I've loosened up a lot about meal & bed routines. I give her lots of kind words and extra cuddles, and try to distract with playful techniques. Here's my problem: all of a sudden DD has become intolerant of me nursing DS. She'll try to climb on my lap, yell, push his head, and has even scratched and bitten him. I've tried to let DD know it's not acceptable in gentle ways, and have tried suggesting other ways to get her "angries" out, to no avail. My only solution has been to remove myself from her to nurse - with an actual barrier (baby gate or closed door) between us. I don't like this, as I don't think it addresses her issues (needing my attention/affection and feeling jealous of her brother), but I can’t just put down screaming, hungry DS to comfort and attend to DD, especially as DD seems insatiable when it comes to attention lately. I've explained to her that I don't like this solution but that I don't know what else to do, as DS needs to nurse frequently and hurting him is not acceptable. After I feed DS I go to DD with as much affection as I can muster and tell her I’m sorry I had to step away to nurse DS.

I like what a few of you have suggested here about letting the toddler overhear you throughout the day telling the baby to wait while you take care of the toddler. This seems like it might help. I’ll try it. But in the mean time I desperately need suggestions for how to protect DS’s body while also protecting DD’s feelings. Help!

Sorry to OP if I'm hijacking. New here. Back to lurking now.

[gaialice]

Semicrunch I totally understand you. My two dd are also 21 months apart and I went through many of the things you describe (although the nursing jealousy in our case was not so extreme). I think you tried all of this, but in case you did not. Tell dd it is time for me to nurse the baby and give her options as to what she would like to do. Possible options are:
- playing with water in the sink. Equip her with waterproof top or let her be naked (depending on the weather). Of course, she will need to help with mopping the floor afterwards
- playing with playdoh at a little table near where you nurse the baby
- listen to you telling her a story (I was able to juggle the nursing baby and the book but she needed to turn the pages for me)
- play crazy foot with her as you nurse (while you nurse your feet suddenly become crazy and have a terrible urge to tickle dd)
I hope this helps, it aint easy to have 2 babies and no help.

[newmainer]

I totally hear you! My ds is 5 1/2 weeks and my dd just turned 3 last week. The first week was rough. she freaked out when i nursed (she still nursed 1x a day and "held" her "deedees" off and on throughout the day) and was super clingy and had tantrums. But i have to say things have mellowed out a lot and here are some things that helped-

like others have said, 1:1 time with your dd. i really did not want to put my ds down when he slept, i want to cuddle him as much as possible, but i also felt like it was really important to spend time with dd so i'm compromising. my pediatrician reminded me that the first born remembers life w/o a sibling, but the second one doesn't. your second one accepts sharing you, while the first one needs to learn it.

allowing my older one to help out, hold the baby, have some ownership over her new sibling. although we have really had to work with her on being careful and reminding her of her own strength, *much* supervision, she holds him and wipes him when we change his diaper and pushes him in the swing, etc...

letting go of so, so much. i commit everyday to taking gentle parenting to a new level. there's been so much change- here at our house, in addition to hte new baby, my FIL was in a major, major car accident just 3 weeks later. so, tons of upheaval. i just let go, and let go. routines and all that will come back later. i don't mean let her run wild, but be easy, respond to things more casually than you would otherwise. yeah, she'll figure out that she can get away with more and she'll push it, but you avoid adding on the additional power struggle and anger that can get out of control.

and the dirty little secret thing? its scary. i am sad that i get so irritated and mad at my dd, and all the cute things are not so cute anymore. i'm in love with my baby, and dont necessarily feel *in love* with dd right now. but, i know i will again. we're all adjusting. i feel our connection returning, it's just different.

hth... hang in there.

[lisac77]

I don't have two DCs but I heard a tip that I will always remember. It was that the parents still need to make sure that their faces light up when the older child walks in the room. You can reinforce this with a really positive, "Oh look, it's Older Child!" It really resonated with me, and I think it goes along with parents letting the older DC hear themselves be chosen over the younger. Hugs to you, I know it will get better.