Do you know anyone who spanks? - Page 6

[alley cat]

My sister did to her kids , my brother does to his, my friends do , more people than not you really are a minority if you don't spank , even those that say they don't I have seen them doing it.:
I am not perfect in this area either my daughter was spank till I knew better and I lost it with my son once; the reason I found myself here.
But as the saying goes " You did what you thought was best , when you knew better you did better".

[Chanley]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

In my opinion, seeing AP or other helpful parenting movements as having elements that are "deal breakers" is potentially dogmatic (and here, I think actually dogmatic) and not helpful. I think if someone seeking to learn from the AP movement is exposed to this type of thinking, she may very well decide not to read things labeled "AP" any more or associate with people who call themselves AP. In fact I would hazard to guess that this would be a majority reaction.

Then I say, if you cannot walk the walk, don't talk the talk. Nothing irritates me more than someone saying they are AP when they hit thier kids. That is not the example that young women should see. When you are AP, you should aim to do your best, not defend your poor choices but rather aim to do better next time and be an example for those just beginning thier journey.

There have been many aspects of AP that have been the more difficult road for me. It has always been the high road, but it was a more challenging path. It would have been so much easier to stick them in a crib and let them cry. It would be so much easier to react with a quick slap rather than REALLY think about what is happening in an out of control dynamic. I am PROUD to call myself AP. It is challenging but I do it! Some folks are not up to that challenge, so I guess it is a good thing I am not the one handing out the babies and deciding who gets to have them.


Only love prevails.

[Ozzy'sMama]

Originally Posted by MammaKoz

:

I'm in Southern Alberta, Canada and I have to agree with the above. I can honestly say I have never seen anyone here where I live spank their child, tell their child off or anything. Maybe I am living in a bubble because I am a GD parent, but I just can't see it being tolerated here, or if a child was getting a spanking anyone looking on with satisfaction that the parent was doing "something" about it etc, yk? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that I've never seen it happen around me or in public.

Reading through some of these posts and the idea in some communities that spanking is okay, accepted and touted as an effective form of discipline (not by MDC members but the people who live around them etc) actually made me almost speechless for once and that doesn't happen very often.

I wish I could agree with you guys. I live in Ontario. I posted earlier about how common it is for people to use phrases like, "you want a smack? or Do it again and you'll get a stinger." I'd love to live in a town where everyone felt that assaulting your children wasn't okay. People are getting smart these days though. Lots of the Hitters I know wouldn't dare do it in public. Just like they won't leave their babes alone in the car.....unless no one is watching.

Maybe I need to move to your area!

Sara & Oscar (04/11/26)

[Shirelle]

I know very few people who do not spank. At a LLL playgroup we had we were actually having the discussion about LLL's stances on discipline. Come to find out, every one of us had spanked at some point.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by Ozzy'sMama

I wish I could agree with you guys. I live in Ontario. I posted earlier about how common it is for people to use phrases like, "you want a smack? or Do it again and you'll get a stinger." I'd love to live in a town where everyone felt that assaulting your children wasn't okay. People are getting smart these days though. Lots of the Hitters I know wouldn't dare do it in public. Just like they won't leave their babes alone in the car.....unless no one is watching.

Maybe I need to move to your area!

Sara & Oscar (04/11/26)

What part of Ontario do you live in? You can pm me if you want.

[bamamom]

LLL has been an eye opener for me....most of the moms are pretty GD, with a few extreme exceptions..

this one little boy who is around three...he started climbing on the tables. Suddenly, his mom jumped up, THREW her baby at someone to hold, and was instantly chasing him , all the while RIPPING HER WHITE LEATHER STUDDED BELT OFF. She proceeded to chase him, with him in absolute terror....i couldnt believe the look on his face. Fortunately she didnt actually hit him, just yelled and threatened him.

Everyone was kind of speechless....my dear friend sitting nearby actually said.." My hair is standing on end...."

I hope my children never have cause to look at me in terror....

[peacelovingmama]

Originally Posted by Chanley

Then I say, if you cannot walk the walk, don't talk the talk. Nothing irritates me more than someone saying they are AP when they hit thier kids. That is not the example that young women should see. When you are AP, you should aim to do your best, not defend your poor choices but rather aim to do better next time and be an example for those just beginning thier journey.

.

I do have to say I agree with this. It's one thing to say that you are striving to parent in an attachment mode and that you have made mistakes --- e.g., hit your kids, CIO, circ'ed without knowing better, ffed for no reason other than ignorance of the benefits of bfing, etc. I don't judge those people and I do think they can still strive to attachment parent.

But to defend hitting as attachment parenting is the same to me as to say that CIO, circ, not holding a baby much, etc. fosters attachment. I just can't get on-board with that. I have seen people with big smilies and icons proclaiming to be AP and also defending hitting kids. Huge disconnect, if you ask me.:

[irinam]

Originally Posted by peacelovingmama

I do have to say I agree with this. It's one thing to say that you are striving to parent in an attachment mode and that you have made mistakes --- e.g., hit your kids, CIO, circ'ed without knowing better, ffed for no reason other than ignorance of the benefits of bfing, etc. I don't judge those people and I do think they can still strive to attachment parent.

But to defend hitting as attachment parenting is the same to me as to say that CIO, circ, not holding a baby much, etc. fosters attachment. I just can't get on-board with that. I have seen people with big smilies and icons proclaiming to be AP and also defending hitting kids. Huge disconnect, if you ask me.:

I agree with peacelovingmama and Chenley.

Actually it always puzzled me when parents limit attachment to physical attachment - breastfeeding, slinging, cloth diapering etc., (which are wonderfull things, don't get me wrong), and then all of a sudden de-attach themselves from the kid emotionally when s/he becomes "old enough" to voice their opinion...

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by peacelovingmama

I do have to say I agree with this. It's one thing to say that you are striving to parent in an attachment mode and that you have made mistakes --- e.g., hit your kids, CIO, circ'ed without knowing better, ffed for no reason other than ignorance of the benefits of bfing, etc. I don't judge those people and I do think they can still strive to attachment parent.

But to defend hitting as attachment parenting is the same to me as to say that CIO, circ, not holding a baby much, etc. fosters attachment. I just can't get on-board with that. I have seen people with big smilies and icons proclaiming to be AP and also defending hitting kids. Huge disconnect, if you ask me.:

These follow ups do sound awfully dogmatic and it does not seem to be a view that Attachment Parenting International wants promoted:

From http://www.attachmentparenting.org/faqap.shtml#all

Do I have to practice all of the attachment parenting ideals to be an attachment parent?


No. We recognize that families have various circumstances in their lives that may preclude them from practicing all the attachment parenting "ideals". We also want parents to know that AP is not a "one size fits all" formula for parenting. What we want parents to understand is the core emotional and psychological needs babies have, even before birth. Parents who recognize these needs will make decisions based on what their child needs, not on what the parenting books or other experts say you must do. Attachment parenting comes from the heart. As a sensitive parent you will be sensitive to what your child needs regardless of your life circumstances.

To those of you who see yourselves as leaders of the AP movement, and want people shunned who believe they are part of the movement but do strive to practice API's ideal # 7 of 8 (positive discipline) 100% of the time, perhaps you should send a strongly worded letter to API.

[Faerieshadow]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

These follow ups do sound awfully dogmatic and it does not seem to be a view that Attachment Parenting International wants promoted:

From http://www.attachmentparenting.org/faqap.shtml#all

Do I have to practice all of the attachment parenting ideals to be an attachment parent?


No. We recognize that families have various circumstances in their lives that may preclude them from practicing all the attachment parenting "ideals". We also want parents to know that AP is not a "one size fits all" formula for parenting. What we want parents to understand is the core emotional and psychological needs babies have, even before birth. Parents who recognize these needs will make decisions based on what their child needs, not on what the parenting books or other experts say you must do. Attachment parenting comes from the heart. As a sensitive parent you will be sensitive to what your child needs regardless of your life circumstances.

To those of you who see yourselves as leaders of the AP movement, and want people shunned who believe they are part of the movement but do strive to practice API's ideal # 7 of 8 (positive discipline) 100% of the time, perhaps you should send a strongly worded letter to API.

First of all, I see the above quote (emphasis mine) as discussing a child's needs. I'm sure we can agree that no child needs to be hit, so to me it seems a moot point to suggest that API would think it "ok" to spank in any situation, for any parent. Second of all, there is a huge difference between a parent who is striving to use GD and sometimes fails, and a parent who practices other aspects of AP and yet thinks spanking is ok. Spanking is not ok. Spanking promotes fear and detachment, obviously the opposite of AP ideals. The above quote, IMO, refers to instances such as a child who sleeps better on their own rather than cosleeping, or a child who hates the confinement of being slinged.

[Qtopia]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

These follow ups do sound awfully dogmatic and it does not seem to be a view that Attachment Parenting International wants promoted:

From http://www.attachmentparenting.org/faqap.shtml#all


To those of you who see yourselves as leaders of the AP movement, and want people shunned who believe they are part of the movement but do strive to practice API's ideal # 7 of 8 (positive discipline) 100% of the time, perhaps you should send a strongly worded letter to API.

I think there is some miscommunication going on here. IMO, at least, there is a HUGE difference between someone who calls themselves AP and says "Physical punishment is a great and effective form of discipline" and someone who calls themselves AP and says "I strive for GD but sometimes I screw up and hit". I don't have a problem with the latter, and I think that is what the API statement is saying (and I *think* that is what you are saying). None of us is perfect. But when we make a mistake and use physical punishment, we recognize that it is a mistake and strive to be better.

The former attitude- that physical punishment CAN promote attachment, is flat-out wrong, and I have yet to hear a reputable, non-Christian parenting author (AP or mainstream) say otherwise.

[pigpokey]

I will e-mail API and ask them their position regarding a parent calling themselves AP. I think it would be most productive to move this to its own thread.

[Qtopia]

I wanted to add one thing...

I am a happy, active member of API.

But, they are not the be-all and end-all of attachment parenting. They are not the "keepers" of AP or the originators of the term/movement. Which is why I'm a little perplexed as to why you are even contacting them. What is your purpose is doing that? And how is it even relevant to this discussion? The way you are describing it, pigpokey, makes them sound like they are some kind of cult and we have to take all their official stances as just that, official. Hooey.

[familylove]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

I will e-mail API and ask them their position regarding a parent calling themselves AP. I think it would be most productive to move this to its own thread.

As other posts have suggested, I believe the idea that spanking is "Ok" cannot possibly fit in with the concept of AP. It is totally conterintuitive to the idea of forming a bond b/t child and parents, IMO. How can a child possibly trust their parents when the threat of physical violence looms on the horizon if they do something that displeases their parents? If API truly has a different stance on this issue, I have no problem distancing myself from API and not promoting those values.

We often talk about parental instincts guiding our AP decisions. I think anyone that listens to their heart, regardless of what various organizations may or may not advocate, knows that physical punishment is never a permanent solution to a problem. Of course we all have moments when we lose sight of our parenting goals and enforce punishments that normally would be considered off limits. But there is a definite difference b/t losing one's cool once a great while and thinking its OK by AP standards to use physical discipline as part of one's parenting.

[Chanley]

Lets call a spade a spade.

The real issue here is that some people call themselves AP and STILL consider hitting a useful tool in disciplining thier child. Spanking and AP do not go together. AP parents try to STOP spanking if they do it at all. They strive to find more attachment forming ways of communicating with thier child/ren.

So when you email API, make sure you just ask them what thier stance is on the usefulness of corporal punishment within the boundaries of AP. Let's not cloud the issue with defensive blather.

[Faerieshadow]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

I will e-mail API and ask them their position regarding a parent calling themselves AP. I think it would be most productive to move this to its own thread.

I think this is way off track, but I'm going to answer it anyway. Of course you can't stop anyone from calling themselves AP. The point is, someone who refers to themselves as AP should be making a sincere effort to actually be AP. And spanking without remorse is most certainly not making an effort to be AP. However, it is completely understandable that those of us who are so strongly against spanking do not appreciate others touting their skewed version of AP as being attachment forming.

[CryPixie83]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

I will e-mail API and ask them their position regarding a parent calling themselves AP. I think it would be most productive to move this to its own thread.

I don't give a flying fig what the API or any other organization says, hitting a child has absolutely no place in the practices of attachment parenting. Hitting does not promote trust or attachment or love or respect. Hitting severs attachment, teaches a child they cannot trust unconditionally, teaches fear and disrepect. I invite anyone to argue that hitting promotes attachment and trust.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by irinam

Actually it always puzzled me when parents limit attachment to physical attachment - breastfeeding, slinging, cloth diapering etc., (which are wonderfull things, don't get me wrong), and then all of a sudden de-attach themselves from the kid emotionally when s/he becomes "old enough" to voice their opinion...

Okay, I'm sorry to be totally OT here, but I've seen this said before, and I just have to ask, how does cloth diapering promote attachment?

[CryPixie83]

I just have to ask, how does cloth diapering promote attachment?

It doesn't. Cloth diapering is NFL not AP, but AP and NFL go hand in hand so often that we all tend to lump it together because it's just part of the way a lot of us live.

[mamapajama]

I only know one mom who spanks, although I am willing to bet I know others who are just quiet about the fact that they spank. I feel like in my neck of the woods, it is not socially acceptable to spank anyone.

Also, I think if I let her, my MIL would absolutely love to spank my kids.